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Criticisms Of Rogue One

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by SKB, Dec 18, 2016.

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How would you rate Rogue One score out of 10?

  1. 10

    30 vote(s)
    13.5%
  2. 9

    64 vote(s)
    28.7%
  3. 8

    70 vote(s)
    31.4%
  4. 7

    34 vote(s)
    15.2%
  5. 6

    12 vote(s)
    5.4%
  6. 5

    6 vote(s)
    2.7%
  7. 4

    5 vote(s)
    2.2%
  8. 3

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  9. 2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. 1

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  1. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Cassian Andor never struck me as another Han Solo-style character. He seemed more like Leia Organa to me. But just a bit more ruthless.



    Of course it had become real to her . . . especially since her father had sacrificed so much to give the Rebel Alliance a chance to deal a blow to the Empire. Did people want Jyn's support of the Rebel Alliance to be selfless? Jyn wasn't this figure of figure of shinning ideal. If she was, I would not have found her interesting. Supporting the Rebel Alliance seemed to be all about making her father's sacrifice mean something. Many may not agree with that, but I don't care. It made her interesting and different to me.
     
    #341 CTrent29, Oct 20, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  2. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Peter Cushing was 5'11½" (182cm) tall
    Guy Henry is 6'3" (193cm) tall

    Guy Henry was chosen not because of his height, but because of his familiarity of Peter Cushing's mannerisms, personality and he's a fan of his. Henry also shares similar facial features. His clipped RP dialect is also similar to Cushing's.

     
    #342 SKB, Oct 20, 2017
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  3. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I've been a vocal critic of RO for some time. But last night I got in my 4th viewing and really enjoyed it!

    I'd actually say now that it is better than TFA, which isn't saying much because I don't like TFA...but that'll probably change soon being the fickle idiot that I am.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 27, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 27, 2017 ---
    (I do still loath the CGI characters though - completely takes me out of the film).
     
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  4. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    I somewhat agree with that

    I think they over did it with Tarkin... I think they could have gotten away with showing 'less' of him. As per the whole of the PT ~ just because you have the tech.. don't go mad with it.

    As for Leia's brief appearance.. a small part of me thinks that a brief glimpse of her from the side would have been better as she spoke instead of a face close up, but it didn't really bother me that much.


    I absolutely love the film, and have seen it many many times now.

    I hate one scene in the film, and it's the final one of Jyn and Cassian. the pair of them getting to the water's edge just in time for the blast wave and hugging each other.... meh. that happens at the end of one of those silly meteor films (deep impact) where the tidal wave's coming.. hated that too.
    I would have had them stay at the top of the tower.
     
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  5. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    IIRC they were injured (every move must have hurt) so yes, staying up there on the tower (and with perhaps a better chance of being evacuated than on the ground, but that bird never flew) would have been more realistic with the two of them perhaps sharing a sip from a drink Andor might have been carrying.
     
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    i like them on the beach.

    they have no idea no one's coming. we know because we hear Raddus wish them well. but they don't hear that.
    they only know they don't want to be in the tower if they're going to die.
    better to die "free" on the beach with a nice view.

    is it cheesy? sure. but this is Star Wars. a little cheese is kinda requisite. : D

    @Maximus: i completely agree with you about both Tarkin and Leia.
     
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  7. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    so you're sticking with that avatar pic? :p pfft.

    don't get me wrong.. i like a cheesy ending. i personally didn't think that a picturesque beach scene + hug was how i would have shown Jyn and Cassian dying. I would have moved the timing of the final events so that as the plans finish uploading.. they turn and see the death star firing and realize they are a gonna. give them their intimate cheesy moment there and then.

    I believe that Jyn survived in the Gareth Edwards first cut? a part of me thinks that wouldn't have been such a bad thing. i don't think it would have had a negative impact on the drama of the final few minutes.

    ignore my moaning.. i love the movie :)
     
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    i wanted Bodhi to survive! hahahaha

    it could have worked as you described. but i like that Krennic gets to eat it up there alone on the tower first. that was just more satisfying to me. then they have their own moment alone. but it's probably just personal preference more than anything else. : D
     
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  9. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    aye.. Krennic up there messes up my preferred ending.

    perhaps Bohdi not getting blown up and picking the pair of them up just in time would have been better? Krennic sees them fly off.. and the death star comes into focus just as it lets rip.
     
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  10. JarJar

    JarJar Guest

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    1-6 nitpicking
    7 good questions
    8 no comment
    9 don't know
    10 agreed
     
  11. Daddy_Stardust

    Daddy_Stardust Rebelscum

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    I'm not going to elaborate too much simply because I feel there's no real need, but simply, my sole criticism of Rogue One is that I enjoy it too much and wish there was another original-trilogy-era galactic civil war movie to enjoy beyond the OT before I burn this one out.

    I've been a fan since 1986, not first-generation cinema-attending fan, but very close second-generation; the UK TV-premiere generation whilst the original Kenner figures were still sold in shops and summarised all my Christmas and birthday presents throughout the mid to late 80s, and this movie is absolutely up there for me on the favourites list. I used to have to wait till Christmas on ITV to see a Star Wars movie; after I finally obtained them all on tape a little while later, I used to watch my original trilogy VHS tapes to the point of warping; I still cannot watch the battle of Yavin without expecting the wings-roll-call to start scrolling up-screen with irreversible VHS damage because I watched those tapes so many times.

    I didn't read any of the books beyond half of Truce at Bakura, half of Heir to the Empire and all of Shadows of the Empire (yet I admittedly owned about 30 of them), but I spent the 90s playing the glorious Lucasarts PC games. X Wing, TIE Fighter and Dark Forces 1 & 2, which helped define my personal Star Wars fanhood for me as I grew older. The likes of Rebel Assault 2 may have been complete crap, but I'm part of the teenage 90s generation of Star Wars fan who watched its FMV like it was the second-coming of real Star Wars movies (it was a big deal at the time) before we ever expected new films to actually be made and loved every single second of its cheesy wretchedness with complete awe.

    For me, Rogue One was a love-letter to the 90s PC-gaming Star Wars fans. Sure, Kyle Katarn was gone, but the vibe was there. To see Imperial-infighting, the best space battle of the franchise (IMO), the emphasis of the rebellion vs the empire galactic civil war instead of the focus on Jedi, the ruthless but loyal sarcy droid, the miserable darkness of Eadu and its 'rebel assault' - ha! (when I was an adolescent teen, the Alien Trilogy took over briefly as my favourite sci fi franchise over Star Wars, so to have LV-426 visually referenced felt a very poignant touch for me), all in all led to me having an absolute delight of a Star Wars movie.

    I'll be honest, I don't get any of the criticism for it. Sure if you want to get super-anal you can find some things to criticise continuity with (but none worse than Lucas' own prequel-to-OT continuity issues), however I adore Rogue One; it was the perfect latter-day instalment for me. I've watched it probably 30 times since release and with each viewing, as its script becomes more and more second-nature to my viewing, I love it even more. If you don't like it, that's cool, but I'm just saying, I don't get the criticisms laid at it, I loved it, it was perfect Star Wars for the 90s getting-older-generation and I've been waiting over 20 years since those classic PC games really delved into the non-Jedi Galactic Civil aspect to have it in a movie, and I got it, and for me it was perfect. Absolutely perfect. Sure, I'd love to see what was deleted, but that doesn't take away from being so very happy with what we got.

    I said I wasn't going to elaborate too much, maybe I have, but I've just watched it again, and it's just warmed my cockles on why I love Star Wars and am just enjoying its vibe, I've got the Star Wars glow going-on and I'm just confused as to why so many people like to nitpick it so much, I adore it. But I'm not you, so feel free to dislike it if you want; me, I look forward to my next viewing, it only adds more to my fanhood with each joyous viewing I give it :)
     
    #351 Daddy_Stardust, Nov 5, 2017
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  12. FigrinDan

    FigrinDan Rebel Trooper

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    Boom. Agreed. No argument here. Rogue One is relentlessly rewatchable for me in the same way the original trilogy is. I have fallen prey to it's charms, flaws be damned. Hell...I may put it on right now. I can't add much to this, other than thanks for the great post. MTFBWY.
     
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  13. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    i'm with you too.

    i have nitpicky criticisms as i probably would have with any film, but i just watched it again last night and i love it and the characters it gave us--utterly! : D
     
  14. Daddy_Stardust

    Daddy_Stardust Rebelscum

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    Lovely to hear some supportive positivity for the movie from the two of you above, thank you :)

    I can nitpick *ANY* of the Star Wars movies; the original doesn't have enough threat of what the Death Star really means and is treated like an episode of Takeshi's Castle; just a big fun action-adventure base for the heroes to swing around and shoot guns inside. We're talking a super-weapon that utterly dwarfs the Holocaust in its potential power of pure evil extermination, yet Star Wars (or 'A New Hope' if you like) just kinda treats it as a rather light-weight threat. Rogue One rectifies that and truly treats it as something horrific. I'm not saying Rogue One is better than the original Star Wars, just that, at least it does actually treat the Death Star as the horror that it truly is, which is a factor I love and for me, improves the original Star Wars because of it. Empire Strikes Back has its really weird timeline on "how long did Luke train for?" - some like to argue months but for me the movie never truly makes it feel that way; ESB feels like a 48 hour timeline at best (and yes it would be incredibly easy to have structured the film in a way to suggest a longer timeline with simple things like impactful fadeouts, costume/hair changes, a few basic lines of expository dialogue etc. if that had been the intention, I just don't think it was part of the intention and believe ESB does intend to take place over a few days) and that doesn't satisfy much in the way of a justifiable growth in Luke's powers. Finally ROTJ has its awful mawkish "super best friends" sensibilities that neuter Han of all his prior alpha-male heroics and replaces him with a cuckold whiner, with scenes like "I'm with you too" (not to discredit your above supportive reply haha) and the dreadful moonlight bridge scene which just flatline any of the movie's pulse and realistic humanity; they come across as schmaltzy and contrived as a means to just finish the story. But I love those three movies, so again those aren't deal-breakers for me in those respects, just saying they're not free from criticism for me.

    Are the characters of Rogue One particularly 'likeable' in the old fashioned swashbuckling Star Wars hero way? Not necessarily, but I don't see their characters as ever having meant to be that, like it's some specific fault of the movie. They're the foot-soldiers, the underclass, the cannon-fodder, the people that get things done, whose lives are damaged, whose story is being told to remind us that not every person is an infallible awesome superhero with a great one liner, just that sometimes flawed people have to make a choice for the greater good in the "what would you do?" kind of way. TFA was a glorious, dialogue-rich character piece that made many of us fall in love with the new characters, with well-written humour (that was actually funny!) and dynamics to their characterisation, but Rogue One was never telling that kind of story. I wouldn't want Jyn to be Rey, I like them both as very different people within the same universe (and no, British and Brunette does not make them similar).

    People lament the loss of Kyle Katarn as the plan-stealing rebel whose place was taken in canon, but for me I just have to say - so what? Go back and watch the Dark Forces 2 FMV, he was never a wonderful, charismatic leading-man himself. He was dry and drab and you probably only love him because he was there at a time when this story wasn't being told on screen. That's why I loved him myself. We gave it our love at a time when Star Wars felt niche and personal and your movie-watching experience was being expanded by books and games in a way that felt impactful to the story because it had become yours and yours alone. I get that, I really do. But we don't live in the time any longer, let's embrace a Star Wars that's loved by utterly millions of mainstream people again instead of just thousands of dedicated subscribers to the Lucasfilm Fanclub Magazine. Popularity is good for the things we love; we get more of them. A Rogue One movie led by Kyle Katarn as depicted prior instead of Jyn Erso would never have been a glorious character piece because Katarn was just as cold a character as Jyn Erso. And that's not a complaint or criticism, that's just a fact about the character. I'm not saying he had to go either, I'm just saying him being gone is not exactly anything particularly lament-worthy, I don't have any cherished Katarn character memories, the guy was dry brown bread at best, it's just being disappointed that he's gone when we as a fanbase embraced him when that period was just ours; that of the dedicated fans.
    However I'm fine with Rogue One's story and characters being quite cold and militant, because that's the story they were telling. They were damaged people whose sacrifice led to the glorious episodic story that unfolded thereafter. That's a lovely contrast to the Hans and Landos we've had before. These were the soldiers and they fought like soldiers. They weren't the rogues, the bandits, the heart-throbs, they were the reluctant flawed fighters who made the rebellion a rebellion. Ok, Lucasfilm changed the plan-stealing-person from a beardy bloke to an attractive young female, but again I'll argue that Star Wars was too much of a sausage-fest for far too long anyway, so I'm glad for more lead female characters. Next stop; a proper female villain! Please?

    Like I said, Rogue One for me feels like a love letter to 90s Star Wars PC gaming. Kyle Katarn wasn't a witty thigh-slapping rogue with a lady-killing smile, he was a gruff workman who got the job done (whose story blew up into a massive magical epic but I preferred him as an undercover grunt of the rebellion personally). The central characters of the X Wing and TIE Fighter games weren't Finns. Rookie One was no Han Solo. Dash Render was no was Lando Calrissian. I spent my youth imagining something like the Star Wars universe existing up in the stars somewhere (ok, I was probably quite a stupid lad haha) but that was because of the soldiers, the star fighters and the technology, not because of the space wizards. Maybe I'm in the minority, but as having been a supporter of those militant Star Wars media instalments, Rogue One gave me exactly that which I'd pined for in my youth and catered to it in a way I appreciated as I'd grown older. I'm not saying it's the best movie ever made, I'm just saying I loved it; I wasn't bored for a second as I saw it in the cinema; I was transfixed as the Battle of Scarif climaxed, and for me, as a fan of the 90s media that delved into that militaristic side of the franchise, it ticked every box I ever wanted from a Galactic Civil War-set movie outside of the magic and mystery that the main saga pursued.

    And as for the title-cards being presented alongside the planets in this movie? All I'll say is, Revenge of the Sith really could have done with them. It went to more planets than Rogue One and never once bothered to tell us really where we were or why. The urban planet with the bridges during the Order 66 scene? Where the hell is that? No idea. Why should I care? Is it the same place as the Avatar planet with the neon day-glo flowers? I dunno. Cue Jedi Master whose never had a single line of dialogue getting murdered there and I'm all the more appreciative for Rogue One's descriptive tourism of the galaxy.

    To cut it short, I came out of the cinema after having watched Rogue One feeling 5 years old again and thinking "THAT'S why I love Star Wars!!!!" and sadly came online to read endless criticisms about it; hearing that it's boring, reading about the endlessly nitpicky complaints and I'm just left thinking "did we watch the same movie?" I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not saying you're wrong if you didn't like it, we're all individual, I'm sure I hate stuff that numerous of you love, I'm just saying I just personally don't get it myself. I'm 35 but felt like an excited child after having seen it, yet it seems like the vocal internet community have watched a completely different movie that by all accounts was 'MOTHER!' reenacted in white plastic amor and orange boiler suits.

    I'll be honest, I get scared that the 'voice of the internet' which seems more often than not to be a vocal minority rather than the silent majority, will cause Star Wars to go the way of Alien Covenant (which pandered to hate and irrespective of Prometheus' flaws, left the world with just a poor, unfulfilled semi-conclusion that felt like nothing more than Ridley Scott going "IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?!?!?!" armed with a camera and CGI penis-monsters than his actual intended next instalment in the story). I'm loving living in an era of the second-coming of Star Wars if this is the standard we're getting and want its magic to continue, but I truly fear that the internet will instead keep spouting its negativity until it sends the franchise into the spiral of disillusioned pursuit of satisfying hate-filled self-entitled toxic fandom. Hopefully that doesn't happen, but I have my fears.
     
    #354 Daddy_Stardust, Nov 5, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
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  15. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    no, nothing is a deal breaker here for me either. we all have our things we might not totally love in a film. the boyish besties of the OT never bothered me like the way they used Tarkin in R1, both in terms of resurrecting a dead actor and the execution of that resurrection, but to me it's something my brain notes, is conscious of, and then moves on to enjoy many many things about the film better worth focusing on. i've said elsewhere that i'm most sorry that Jedha was destroyed because man, i loved the marketplace and all those pilgrims, and the Guardians. that stuff was just crazy great to me: costumes, atmosphere, set design, all of it. just wonderfully different and yet familiar in terms of a Star Wars world.

    i'm not in love with Jyn, but i think she works. i am totally in love with Chirrut and Baze and Bodhi and K2. i'm more sorry they didn't make it than anyone else. and Krennic is just a perfectly vile villain: petty, horrid, and the best of everything you want to detest in an antagonist. are they like the OT heroes--no of course not. as you said, this is not that story. and we don't need a repeat of those people. these are a much scrappier set of fighters who aren't going to make it out alive, but their conviction makes them comparable heroes in my mind.

    i think Snoke was originally conceived as a female? i think they should have stuck with that. i already get a distinct "Snow Queen" vibe with the way he's seduced Ben, etc., and the creepiness could have been ratcheted up even higher (though i think it's plenty creepy already). : o p

    i trust completely in Kathleen Kennedy after TFA. she understands Star Wars and i believe she will protect it and guide it. not that it will be always perfect, but so long as the spirit is in the right place, all the niggling little problems won't amount to a hill of beans. for all the kvetching about TFA from that vocal minority, the box office speaks volumes louder. ; D
     
  16. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Luke's awkward entrance, is that you? :D Carry on criticizing Rogue One, friends.

    bh72fvdxmp4y.jpg
     
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  17. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order, Then Pie
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    yes. yes it is. ; D
     
  18. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    10 out of 10.

    Between RO and Doctor Strange, winter had some great movies last year.
     
  19. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    The music is so bad and tired sounding.
     
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  20. Leahcim Somar

    Leahcim Somar Rebel Official

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    Just me, but it was hard to watch a SW film that wasn't apart of the whole story that is SW. the only think I liked about it was that it showed us how the force was viewed and can be used in other means. Rian Johnson will produce a good SW trilogy envolving the force and hopefully other ways of lightsabers and how they use the force.
     
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