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Daisy Ridley Confirms That Rey Kenobi Was An Option For Star Wars Sequels

Discussion in 'SWNN News Feed' started by SWNN Probe, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    The other day my 4 year old watched a youtube video of Spiderman driving a train into a pile of Lightning McQueens. I can't wait to see what future generations think of "canon"
     
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  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    I'm not going to weigh in on this revisionist squabbling about what Daisy said, but will instead repeat and emphasize the following: Obi-Wan could have had sex with Satine without breaking the Jedi Code.
     
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  3. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    My guess is it's at least in part the way that DC/Marvel handle canon.

    There's Elseworlds/What if? stuff, for sure. And they're usually pretty blatantly labeled as such.

    But then there's a lot of multiverse/timeline stuff going on, too.

    With Star Wars, we have levels of canon with no in-lore reasoning.

    And I'm sure that personally you and I are on the same page of this regarding how silly it is, anyway. I don't mean to obnoxiously play Devil's Advocate.
     
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  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    The great myth and misconception is that the sale of Lucasfilm to Disney and the subsequent reclassification of the Star Wars Expanded Universe "decanonized" that material.

    The truth, though, is that said material was never actually Canon to begin with, but we as fans were conditioned into thinking otherwise by a classification system that presented the illusion of Canonicity.
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I guess I'm largely just anti-canon these days. I've been pushed over my edge with it.
     
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  6. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Carrie Fisher's death was the biggest blow to the ST by a long shot.
    Not only did it drop scenes from happening that otherwise would have, it soaked money that could go elsewhere, and it took Carrie Fisher from advising on the screenplay - which she was doing on the previous two rather effectively.

    That last point was a really big hit. A lot of folks in the industry relied on her brush-up work and opinions. Including Lucas. Fisher did brush up work on the PT.

    On the other hand, it moved things in the right direction from one point of view because they couldn't get lost playing to Leia too much, and had to focus in more on the ST primary characters. Kind of a dark win, but just looking at it from a good angle.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  7. Veronica

    Veronica Rebelscum

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    Playing with different ideas as you create and write a story doesn't mean that things are made up as you go along. People are allowed to change their mind. As long as it's not negated in the final product. In TLJ we were given an incomplete picture we saw Rey 's history only through Kylo and what he saw was an incomplete picture due to 1 it being thr fading memories of a 5 year old child, 2 . Luke barging in and 3. The fact was that her parents were disguised as junk traders.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 14, 2020 ---
    But Rey's greatness was never from her last name, it's from her character. I personally am happy with the Palpatine connection for several reasons 1. It made the story much cleaner and neater, making her family someone else would have made it more convoluted. Two having her be Kenobi granddaughter would not only make the story convoluted it would have just taken away her agency, she's no longer carrying out her destiny, but her grandfather's. I also find that making Rey a hidden royal, makes her difficult from Ankin and Luke, two scrappy kids. Also it makes her story so much more personal, not only does she have a personal stake in wanting to get rid of Palpatine for killing her parents and staying her childhood. She also has to resist the pull to take the throne something that must be difficult for a girl who has always felt she was made for better things and is hungry for power.
     
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  8. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I don't think most people know what psychotic hell Lucas reigned upon the production with his story changing.
    Case in point, ROTJ - the throne room was a general mess for a number of reasons, but one of them was that Lucas hadn't even finished delivering the final script for that scene, and there were critical changes to it because he kept having problems trying to figure out how to exactly stick the landing between the relationships of the Emperor, Vader, and Luke and how exactly things go down.

    They were already on set and shooting before Lucas delivered the scene's final moments in script.
    They shot the scene chronologically - which is not typical - just because of the lack of the script section; holding out until the 11th hour for delivery (which obviously happened).

    And for those that say, "Well Disney should have learned the lessons from the OT"....why? how?
    So we're all suddenly production experts up in here? We know exactly how things ought to be done and can run a perfectly squeaky production ourselves, and can tell anyone who has a shaky production they should have shaped it up?

    Things happen - the ground moves. Plans are fluid. You start out with something in drafted form and you work it out as you go.
    That's how movies are made.

    Hell, TROS is an amazing accomplishment considering they hit the ground running 3 months late WITHOUT a script in hand and all prior plans completely disrupted due to losing Fisher. Starting from ZERO and making a major block buster film in (less than) 2 years, to include writing the script from NOTHING is jaw droppingly fast and impressive.

    I don't know if everyone gets how hard that is. And before anyone just suggests they should have just pushed the date back...money.
    This film was already going to be expensive, and pushing that date back balloons the expense and sets off alarm bells across the industry market. It also pushes the film into the way of other films on the conveyor belt and you have to choose which film to suck the wind out from, or push more films back. The ripple effect can be quite costly.
    This is a business as well as an art. It's the business of art.

    I would seriously love for someone to attempt the indie equivalent of this (which is essentially two months - full length script, fully shot, and edited from scratch starting on day 1 with zero in hand). It's an insane speed, and amazing that they accomplished it so well.

    They quite literally had the one worst thing happen that any major franchise can have happen and took it on the jaw and kept running. That's balls crazy talented.

    To add further on this...

    What we ended up with is paramount to Vader saying "I am your Father." and in the next movie Yoda saying, "He was lying."

    Which...a TON of people expected to happen. That's the whole reason Yoda has to confirm that it's true - Lucas and Kasdan were worried about the amount of people writing in not believing it was true because Vader said it.

    We just now have the reverse of how it went in the OT. Kylo said it in the middle film. Rey finds out it isn't true in the third film.

    [​IMG]


    Quite.
    I've said it before - Skywalker, Palpatine. They are allegorical representations of Good, Evil.
    Rey choosing to take the last name of Skywalker has nothing to do with needing anything.
    It's purely a symbolic gesture to anthropomorphize choosing Good.

    That's it.

    The scene might as well have gone:

    Who are you?
    Rey.
    And are you for Good or Evil?
    Good.

    That's all that it was really about.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #48 Jayson, Sep 14, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  9. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    The conclusion that we as an audience are left with regarding Rey's parents in The Last Jedi ultimately proves to be untrue, but that does not create a discrepancy or inconsistency because of one indisputable fact: what we as an audience take away from that film is the "truth" according to Rey herself.

    In other words, she subconsciously perceives her parents as junkie nobodies who sold her for money. It's not something she would ever consciously admit without prompting, which is exactly what Ben does because he's trying to convince her to join his side and believes he can play on their connection a nd her subconscious fears and doubts.

    The things that Ben Solo and Rey discuss in TLJ regarding her parents prove to be the ultimate example of Ben Kenobi's defense of himself in Return of the Jedi: what TLJ told us was true... from a certain point of view.
     
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  10. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Jedi Commander

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    You know, this isn't an original thought, but . . .

    Man, I can't believe they really didn't have a plan. I literally don't understand it. I don't understand how, with all of Disney/Lucasfilm's resources and talent, they just literally did not sit down and plan out a general arc for these three films. It's utterly baffling.

    I try to be a positive fan. TFA is one of my fav SW films, and I really enjoy TLJ and TROS. But the failure to make a cohesive story out of the three films just boggles me.

    I could perfectly understand Disney/Lucasfilm devising a plan and the plan turning out just OK. But the complete lack of a plan . . . I don't even know how that happens.
     
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  11. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    But they did have a general set of ideas. They also allowed those general set of ideas to be malleable and shift. They allowed the creators to design that plan together.

    The only thing that strongly shifted production wise was the third film because the final director changed, and fisher died - which threw the entire production plans out the window and started over from scratch.

    Maybe it wasn't cohesive to you, but it's a lot more cohesive to me than the OT...by a long stretch.
    ANH feels so vastly different from ESB it's incredible, and the mythology of the third film is just so alien to that of ANH.

    The logic and reasoning behind why things happen by the time we get to the third film is just absolutely and critically different than the logic and reasons that things happen in the first film. Heavily because Lucas now had help in fleshing out this mythological universe and what it means, and how it works.

    The older I get, the less I actually like ESB and ROTJ. I like certain elements in ROTJ, but ESB can just go f*** itself for all I care. I don't think very highly of it in terms of Star Wars.
    I think very highly of it AS a film - it's very well made, and the parallel story telling of protagonists separated from each other for the majority of the film is bold, and the symmetrical story telling of the second half being a reverse of the first half variously is jaw droppingly impressive, but as an element of Star Wars myth....meh.

    It's just blah for me.

    ROTJ, like I said, alright. The throne room is solid. The opening Jabba escape is good fun. The speeder bike scequence is simply amazeballs accomplishment for the era.

    But ethos wise, myth wise, continuity wise...ROTJ's a different universe than ANH. Han's not like Han, Leia's not like Leia, Luke's not like Luke, Vader's not like Vader and now we have this Emperor guy who's suddenly super important but didn't matter at all in ANH. He was merely this sociopolitical mention in the backdrop who had dissolved a senate council part way through the film which allowed the Empire to just do whatever they wanted to without checks and balances. So...then they blew up a planet.

    It's just radically different. It's not planned in some grand continuity.
    Hardly. If you read through the making of material, Lucas is clearly mostly winging it with only a marginal scratching of an outline - and even at that, it's heavily adjusted and changed by the end of each film production.

    I don't think folks realize just how "from the hip" Lucas really was. And that's not just in the OT.
    The PT was generally more planned in some aspects because there's a known end point - even we the audience knew what that end point was.
    But you have to be joking if you think TPM is anything like AOTC or ROTS.

    There's a lot more that's locked in, sure, but again - that's because it's a prequel. Prequels are always locked in (and also why I find all prequels boring stories).

    The ST isn't locked in. It doesn't already know where the end has to go. It's more like the OT than the PT. It's not Rogue One - it doesn't have to merge the end of its story line up to the beginning of another.

    It's actually doing just the opposite and taking the end of something before it and extrapolating where to go from that.

    Films just are not made the way I keep seeing people complain and talk about.
    I'm sorry. They aren't.

    Book series that are made into films, somewhat are...ish. At least, kind of ... don't talk to Rowling about that - she's a bit pissed about how Harry Potter went...so is Steven King about his books...I think the only novelist who consistently wasn't pissed with the films not following the books was Michael Crichton. Mostly because he typically wrote the screenplays as well.

    But yeah...if you don't have a book to work off of, what film series ever sits down and drafts out a detailed plan from the beginning for all of these arcs all over the place?

    None, basically. Marvel movies didn't even really do that. At the time of the first Iron Man, they didn't have all of the arcs laid out everywhere, and Hulk flopped hard so they had to flip around and change positions on that one. They just had a general basic plan - start with individual character films, and work up through to ensemble films which lead to a series climax, and do this over a set of build phases.

    Cool. That's nothing close to having a narrative arc planned. That's basically the same as saying that you want to do the ST with stand alone films in between and spin up the live action TV series for the first time. Which, yeah, they had.

    Do you think Disney's just blind and ignorant? They can't see how they made Marvel movies? Of course they can. It's their film. Both of them.

    They made the Star Wars films doing nearly the same thing that they did on Marvel movies.
    • A mapped out production plan that toggles between ensemble and origin stories, check.
    • A story group who controls continuity and world design quality control, check.
    • Alternating directors across films for production diversity, check.
    • Consistent producers staffing for continuity in terms of production tonality and management, check.
    TFA and TLJ were pretty tightly linked together in production. Both Abrams and Johnson had each other make adjustments in their respective films for things in the other, and they spent time talking about ideas.

    They did their own thing, and rightly so. It would be boring as F*** if movies were made by a canned set which directors had no say in how the story moves and flows. God that would be boring as all hell.

    Luckily, it's also nearly impossible.
    That's just not a thing because that's just not how films are made.

    Rough outlines, sure. And they had that. They also did what every film series permits - creative adjustment to that outline over time.

    The vast shift was in TROS and that was largely because everything went out the window and sideways because of Fisher dying, which subsequently caused a shift in the director, and caused a complete rewrite.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  12. Veronica

    Veronica Rebelscum

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    Can you please explain how the films in the ST were not cohesive
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 16, 2020 at 7:11 PM, Original Post Date: Sep 16, 2020 at 7:04 PM ---

    Exactly!!

    On a personal level for me. I liked that she took the name Skywalker. Because it just shows how really great this family is. We have Rey who is prone to being a loner--partly from emotional scars of being abandoned and partly her own natural personality, is very choosy who she wants to let into her life. So the fact that she chooses the name Skywalker goes to show how much she values Luke and Leia (and yes Ben) because they have touched her. She would not have taken the name if she did not truly love and respect them.
     
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  13. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    That was the impression I’d gotten watching that scene anyway. Kylo had been in her head. He’d seen her greatest fear and was prodding it, using it to break her resolve and sway her to his side. It was a deliberate manipulation. It didn’t matter if it was true or not. It just needed to be a believable and devastating prospect for Rey to confront. To tear down her sense of self-worth and then position himself as a figure of acknowledgment, “You're nothing. But not to me.”

    TROS handles this super clumsy though by reframing what that exchange was even about.

    KYLO: I know the rest of your story.
    REY: You're lying.
    KYLO: I never lied to you. Your parents were no one.

    That’s not at all what her crisis of confidence was about though. It wasn’t about her parents being no one. It was about them being so putridly horrid that they’d sell their daughter off like inconsequential property. So is Kylo intentionally gaslighting her here or did the character himself lose the thread? Or did the writer? Kind of shabby.
    When people refer to a “plan”, I assume they mean an “outline” or “framework” - a basic structure that’s used as a guideline to follow. There’s no real indication, from what I’ve seen, that didn’t exist. Assuming it did, then LFL apparently granted their filmmakers the latitude to reshape it as they saw fit. To not hamper them by enforcing a rigid structure they had to conform to. That’s not an inherently poor strategy. It’s not the one I’d have used (whatever that’s worth), but it doesn’t automatically equate to ‘bad’.
    Well, that statement speaks volumes.
    What film series, before this one, ever had the legitimate opportunity to?
    If you’re going to invoke the MCU, then probably best to go like-for-like, yeah? The ST is the finale to a series. The Marvel equivalent wouldn’t be the whole of that catalog, but rather the handful of films leading up to Endgame. Is your assertion that those projects were constructed independently of one another rather than in conjunction toward a common, presupposed endpoint?
    Who exactly is proposing this?
     
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  14. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Yes. They were made just about on par as Star Wars.

    Again, the critical difference is the Star Wars franchise has a critical blow in the middle of production which catastrophically shifted the landscape as a result of Fisher's death, while MCU had a critical shake up because of rights changes and company ownership changes right in the middle of the whole thing.
    But on the whole, they were made relatively similarly.

    The "plan" that Marvel laid out was more a production plan than a nuanced narrative plan.
    Phase 1 through 3 wasn't about narrative arcs, really. It was about production approaches: release X, Y, Z, then we move into A, B, C, then we do etc...

    They only had Tony's death in the pipeline for three years leading into production. Woo!
    Yep, that's some cold hard planning right there...

    Had Fisher not died and things went according to the original plan, that would be about like saying that elements of Trevorrow's script ideas were known while TLJ was shooting...which, yeah. Of course. He was working on it by then, so yes. I mean, Trevorrow was well into writing in 2016.

    The writers have talked about writing Endgame. They didn't have all of the character arcs in place leading into it. They had some ideas, and developed ideas during production of the screenplay regarding where they wanted to see characters go, and what they wanted to see them deal with.

    That's no different than Abrams and Terrio sitting down and doing the same for TROS.

    Again, the primary difference is that Abrams and Terrio had an insane timeline to generate their screenplay, and Abrams had an insane schedule to deliver a produced film following that. The man was editing between shooting on set while shots were being reset. They had dual sets running sometimes so they could do pick-up shots in between other shootings while shots were being reset.

    Literally, Abrams at times would shoot a shot of a scene, instruct another set off to the side to get ready, Adam Driver (or whomever) would walk over to that set, Abrams would walk over to Brandon sitting at a mobile editing station on set and sit down and run through some editing, then hop up and go to the side set's small shots, then pop back over to Brandon if needed while Driver or whomever walked back to the main set, and then pop back to the main set again.

    The level of complexity involved here is absolutely bonkers!
    And unlike MCU's final few films, they weren't on walls upon walls of green screen like the second two PT films. They were in mixtures of practical and digital environments, so moving around between sets was quite a bit more than just pointing at a different green space.

    Any that wanted to.
    I cannot express how ridiculous of an idea this is, really.

    The industry just doesn't work this way. The logistics and finances don't facilitate this fandom mythologized idea. If you walked in and presented it, you'd be laughed out of the room.


    A nuanced narrative plan that exists before a series of films is made is exactly the proposition of removing pliable adjustment by directors and writers of each of the films.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #54 Jayson, Sep 16, 2020 at 9:29 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 10:28 PM
  15. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    McFeely: When Civil War came out, we’d already finished the first draft of both Infinity War and Endgame. We got the job as we were prepping Civil War. So that meant that Kevin Feige, the head of Marvel, had hired me, Chris, and [directors] Joe and Anthony Russo simply based on The Winter Soldier, to do both the Avengers movies.

    Markus: ...And lots of sitting in a room planning Civil War. We nearly had a nervous breakdown.

    McFeely: I bring it up because it’s such a leap [of] faith, right? We’d only had one movie as a foursome under our belt. We got the job, thought about it all throughout the shooting of Civil War. And then the last four months of 2015, we cracked both those [Avengers] movies. So Tony’s death and Cap’s dance were on three-by-five cards in September of 2015.

    How the Avengers: Endgame Writers Made Life-and-Death Decisions, Vanity Fair, NOVEMBER 20, 2019
    _______________________________________________________
    My point was that Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame were created as a piece by the same writer/director team working toward the same respective goal and shared vision. That is absolutely not the approach that the assorted creative teams behind the sequel trilogy took. Abrams, Johnson, and Trevorrow were not collaborators in any capacity relative to this method. Rian developed his script based off his interpretations of JJ’s. Colin developed his based off his interpretations of Rian’s. It was a hand off. They sparingly communicated, but they did not work them out together. They did not share a common vision for how this conclusion should be concluded.
    And if they’d worked all three screenplays out together back in 2013, who’s to say what would have been shot for Fisher by 2016. Might have had all they needed from her by then. That's one of the perks to back-to-back production.
    That simply isn’t true. It’s rare to produce films back-to-back, yes, but it’s far from unheard of.
    New Line Cinema (of all houses) managed it 20 years ago. If there’s any media monster that could accomplish it contemporarily, it would be Disney.
    ‘A nuanced narrative plan that exists before a film is made’ is called a script. Pretty sure writers and directors have been doing fine with that model for quite some time now. Trust me.
     
    #55 eeprom, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:15 PM
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020 at 11:23 PM
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  16. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    MCU:
    Aside from the screenplay bit, which is different from what I read them say elsewhere in the past - interesting, that's pretty much what I said.

    Star Wars:
    You are correct. Star Wars wanted to do a round robin style like the OT did, and I for one think it was a great idea to honor the form of its art.
    I really don't care if others don't.
    We all have things we don't like.

    I don't think all of them sitting around would have made a better set of films.
    It would have simply changed what people were pissed off about with Star Wars this time...because every Star Wars has people pissed off because this fanbase kind of sucks, to be honest.

    Industry Standards:
    I didn't say anything about back-to-back filming.
    LOTR and Back to the Future 2 and 3 aren't even close to the same idea as preplanning multiple films that will be shot in separate productions in different years.

    Yes, they could have shot all three at once. Sure.
    And why should they? The main reason for taking that gambel is usually when you don't know if you'll be able to do it the normal way of separate productions.

    The logistics are very different between the concepts of iterative film series and shooting all at once.

    As to whether it's normal in the industry to preplan a film series with separated productions down to the nuances of character arcs before you even shoot the first one.

    No. It's not. Not even close.
    You can say "That's simply untrue" all you want, but I know half a dozen folks in the industry, am friends with a writer, and childhood friends still in regular contact with the owner of a major VFX studio which has worked on a good third of what you've probably watched in the past decade, have done independent script advisement, script doctoring, and am currently working on my second screenplay which is heading to a studio by request.

    No. It's not normal. Hell, it's typically not even feesible.
    There's a reason those guys you quoted said ut was a huge leap a faith.
    You normally do not want to do that - it's just bad business, and from a writer's point of view...it's horrible business.

    A nuanced narrative plan:
    That is not what I meant and I'm pretty sure you know that.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  17. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I’m not commenting on what anyone likes or dislikes. I was pointing out the erroneousness of the comparison. The argument of ‘Marvel wasn’t any more concrete in their planning than Star Wars’. Well, with regard to their respective finales, yes they were. That’s not a matter of valuation - this versus that. I have no dog in that fight. It’s a matter of accuracy. That’s all I’m saying with that.
    Agreed. If Kathleen Kennedy personally handed everyone a hundred dollar bill, they’d probably complain that she wasn’t smiling enough while doing it.
    No. I did. You asserted that such a thing as developing the story for multiple installments in a film series simultaneously was laughable. That “the industry just doesn't work this way.” I provided you a context for when it in fact does. Yes, it’s exceptional, but, well, so is Star Wars.
    Who said anything about “separate productions in different years”? I know it wasn’t me.
    If you’re done with the resumé and personal references, let’s focus again on what I’m actually speaking to. “what film series ever sits down and drafts out a detailed plan from the beginning for all of these arcs all over the place?” Some established franchises have absolutely done this with their sequel projects. Not to the extent of an entire trilogy, no, but to say “I cannot express how ridiculous of an idea this is” and “if you walked in and presented it, you'd be laughed out of the room”, borders on intellectual dishonesty. This is not a concept beyond any and all precedence.

    The statement “the industry just doesn't work this way” is false. We might even get to see how well it works out for James Cameron . . . maybe . . . someday.
    What you meant is effectively a strawman argument. Nobody is talking about what you’re talking about. Nobody is suggesting the executives (or whoever would even do this) should construct some fully formed uncompromising steel cage that the creative team is forced to obediently conform to. That just isn’t a thing. It’s a fabricated talking point to better validate a personal preference.

    To be clear: I’m not trying to convince anyone that locking a story in for the trilogy before starting production is what they should have done. That the ST is bad because they didn’t do this and would have been automatically great if they had. It could have been an outright disaster. It’s unknowable. I simply take issue with the wholesale dismissal of the idea as intrinsically unrealistic.
     
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  18. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    When I made my original comments which you quoted, I was talking about multiple productions having pre-planned nuanced narratives at the onset of the series.

    At no point was I referring to simultaneous film production.

    If your assertion is that they could have made a similtaneous production, I suppose they could have, but that's very contengent on a vast many factors of decision making neither of us have access to for either of us to judge Disney on.

    As to a narrative planned in great detail before starting production on three separate productions - which was my original commentary - I can say that while not impossible, nor unheard of, it is far from normal and it is not reasonable to assert it should have been done.

    And yes. 99% of the time, you will be laughed out of the room if you proposed such an idea for a separate production series.

    As to my comments about myself.
    It's not about a resume. It's about familiarity with normalities of the business. I'm moderately familiar with them at this point, and such an idea is well beyond reasonable expectation.

    And it is not a strawman. They had a plan, a general production model and basic outline of general ideas.

    Anything beyond that is a preplanned nuanced narrative.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #58 Jayson, Sep 17, 2020 at 9:55 AM
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020 at 10:02 AM
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  19. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    There have been a number of fallacies spread amongst the Star Wars fandom by certain portions of it that have warped a good deal of conversation about the Sequel Trilogy, with the biggest being as follows:
    1. None of the films are narratively consistent with one another (we know this to be a fallacy based on behind-the-scenes documentation)

    2. JJ Abrams was caught off-guard by Rian Johnson's decisions in The Last Jedi after agreeing to replace Colin Treverrow on Episode 9 and painted into a corner by said decisions and the 'negative' response to that film (we know this to be a fallacy based on comments from Abrams, Johnson, and Abrams' Episode 9 writing partner Chris Terrio)

    3. The decision to resurrect the Emperor was 'rushed' (we know this to be a fallacy based on behind-the-scenes documentation and comments from Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, and Chris Terrio)

    4. The Sequel Trilogy failed because there was not a pre-planned outline developed for it (we know this to be a fallacy because it is a purely subjective accusation that cannot be proven and is ultimately not supported by anything that is known about the overall development of the Trilogy)

    People are free to like or dislike the Sequel Trilogy as they wish, but when discussion about it is driven by fallacy rather than fact, it is problematic because fallacy is the enemy of open discourse.
     
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  20. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Then it’s a miscommunication on my end. When someone refers to a ‘plan’ for a movie, I assume they mean a script or a treatment or a storyboard or an executive summary or some composition of the story elements that ensures everyone involved in the production is working toward the same common end. So if they’re talking about a ‘plan’ for a trilogy, then I assume the same.

    And while it’s rare to do so, it’s not unprecedented. Especially when it comes to serialized productions at the scale of Star Wars. The track record of success with that strategy isn’t particularly stellar though, so to claim that it would have certainly resulted in a superior product is specious reasoning at best. I don't disagree with you on that at all. Only that the premise isn't comically ridiculous. Though we seem to be talking about different things.

    What you’re describing is something more akin to a ‘show bible’. Something really only practiced in televised serial productions. So, maybe that’s where people are coming from and I’ve totally misread the room? The line between film and television is becoming so blurred that maybe folks assume they’re one in the same now? It’s a novel idea at any rate. I’d be curious to see that in practice. But, yeah, it’s not a thing in film production.
    The ‘strawman’ I’m referring to is the assertion that what people are proposing is an ironclad unbreakable definitive roadmap for a series of films that details every single incidental element that encompasses the entirety of the narrative from start to finish, as a course of pre-production. Yes, that's ludicrous, but also doesn’t appear to be the angle anyone is advocating for. But, again, maybe they are and I’ve totally misread the room here.
     
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