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Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by BB-Rey, Sep 15, 2014.

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Would you like it if Darth Plagueis was the villain of the Sequel Trilogy?

  1. Yeah! He is a very interesting character!

    352 vote(s)
    42.6%
  2. No thanks, Plagueis is dead.

    189 vote(s)
    22.9%
  3. Nope! He never actually existed.

    29 vote(s)
    3.5%
  4. Yes, but he is in the movie as a corpse.

    20 vote(s)
    2.4%
  5. He will be mentioned in another "throwaway line" only.

    28 vote(s)
    3.4%
  6. He is Snoke in disguise.

    12 vote(s)
    1.5%
  7. Yes, his death was a ruse.

    92 vote(s)
    11.1%
  8. I don't care either way, brah.

    74 vote(s)
    9.0%
  9. Of course, who else would you choose?

    30 vote(s)
    3.6%
  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Browsing through Waterstones' Star Wars collection...;)
     
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  2. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    Why would there be a Plagueis if there is a Snoke?
     
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  3. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    Dude, that's a definite sign. Those evil bastards, Waterstones, are in on this! They're hiding something. I hope you at least followed up with a thorough investigation of their staff. (That's provided of course it wasn't you, master_shaitan, who sneakily rearranged that bookshelf, if you know what I'm saying. Don't worry, I won't judge you if you did. ;))

    Is that like some trick philosophical question you're asking us? Like what came first the chicken or the egg? I don't know how to respond to your question, dude.

    Hmm... but let me ponder on that for a second. Is Snoke metaphorically the chicken, or is he in fact the egg? Is he neither? Is Snoke just Snoke? Does he even exist? Do we even exist?

    [​IMG]

    I need a lie-down. This thread is getting too deep for me.
     
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  4. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    Dude, if there is a Snoke, and apparently there is an 8 ft Snoke, how will they write in Plagueis?
     
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  5. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    Oh right! I think I understand you now. :D

    You mean how do Disney write about two characters, who share a similar time period, the same story, same prequel references, a similar physical resemblance, similar descriptions, injuries, voices, goals, ambitions, methods, music...?

    You mean how do DIsney write original stories about two characters we know very little about, but are both old, pale, very tall, very thin, bald, male, wise, wounded, secretive, powerful, Republic-hating, Jedi-hating, humanoid alien sons-of-b...?

    That's a good question. One I have wondered myself. Probably they will just make Plagueis 7ft 11 inches tall.
     
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  6. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    They're creating pseudonyms, cherry picking...
     
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  7. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

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    Well, its true that they didnt use Lucas treatment, but that doesnt mean that Lucasfilm won't use "parts" of it.

    Plagueis could be one of those parts. :D
     
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  8. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    Allegedly, Plagueis was not in the Lucas treatment. Wish he had been, though.
     
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  9. BB-Rey

    BB-Rey Guardian of the Zoetrope

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    " The Emperor was convinced that something waited for him out there-some origin of the Force, some dark presence formed of malevolent substance. He said he could feel the waves of it radiating out now that the way was clear. The Emperor called it a signal-conveniently one that only he could hear. Even his greatest enforcer, Vader, seemed oblivious to it, and Vader also claimed mastery over the dark force, did he not? Rax believed Palpatine had gone mad."

    Very, very interesting spoiler from Aftermath: Empire's End.
     
    #12149 BB-Rey, Feb 13, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
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  10. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    I mean, if they hadn't been so thorough in denouncing Plagueis, that almost sounds like a Force bond between two beings who know each other intimately (especially as it is upsetting Palpatine, and is a connection that apparently only he can feel).

    "Now that the way was clear" is also interesting. Does the book say more on that?
     
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  11. BB-Rey

    BB-Rey Guardian of the Zoetrope

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    i agree. As well as for the feelings that Leia conveys within the Force for Luke and even Padme too. I'm not sure as this is the only thing I saw and a bit about the significance of Jakku on a brief glance on Reddit and a thread on here. We shall see soon enough.
     
    #12151 BB-Rey, Feb 13, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
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  12. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    More A: EE
    "Ok, first off, the prelude is JUICY. Takes place right before RoTJ and it's Rax talking to Palpatine. Palpatine tells Rax that he must be prepared to face his destiny.

    "I need you to be ready. It may be time for the contingency. You will go far away from here. My boy, my precious boy. Are you ready to be the Outcast? Are you prepared to become the Contingency?"

    "I know I am ready. I am ready to go home. To the sands of Jakku. To the Observatory."

    And yes, Observatory, Contingency, and Outcast are capitalized. Don't know what it means, but it seems important."

    "
    So, about 4 hours prior to this thread, I also shared the following here in the original EE thread:

    • That Rax doesn't end up Snoke.
    • That he's killed by an ally (Sloane)
    • That the secrets on Jakku relate to an Observatory focused on he Outer Region."
    "Observatory definition from chapter 35:

    "It is one of many scattered across the galaxy. All of them are laboratories, in a sense, and all of them look beyond the galaxy's margins in different directions." "Palpating began establishing the observatories before the start of the galactic empire, infusing each with purpose: some were meant to house ancient sith artifacts, others designed to host powerful weapon designs (or the weapons themselves), others still meant as prisons harnessing the life forces of those captured within for a variety of strange purposes"

    "This one, the jakku Observatory, has its own function, It is part of the contingency "
    The purpose of the Jakku observatory: contains a databank of computers "ancient computational mechanisms from an earlier civilization. From precisely when, Rax cannot say. The old republic? The fallen sith Empire?"

    The computers contain a star chart from outside the known galaxy

    The emperor had mapped out the unknown regions outside the galaxy because something called to him."

    Well anyway, I assume you're all looking throuh this too, but it's super exciting!
     
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  13. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    Right, after reading EE, I am 100% back on the Plagueis train. And on the same day, the new planet reveal sounds like it's modelled on Mygeeto (Plagueis' home planet. Now non-canon...whatever)

    I couldn't give a rats ass what Hidalgo has said.

    Snoke is Darth Plagueis.
     
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  14. BB-Rey

    BB-Rey Guardian of the Zoetrope

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    Something interesting I picked up on a bit earlier today. This line from the Darth Plagueis novel sounds very similar to the spoiler I shared yesterday in relation to Aftermath: Empire's End.

    As Plagueis expired, his apprentice experienced a monumental disturbance in the Force, which he interpreted as a shift that anointed him the sole agent of the dark side. But he also experienced a sensation of sadness and loss in the Force. Sidious initially feared that the cause of this unease was a sign that his master's experiments had succeeded after all, that Plagueis' spirit had somehow survived earthly destruction, and would return at any moment to exact vengeance on his treacherous apprentice. However, after learning of Darth Maul's apparent death at the hands of Obi Wan-Kenobi on Naboo, Sidious dismissed his concerns, deciding that this was the true cause of the feeling of loss he experienced.
     
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  15. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    Yep. Confirmation right there.

    They've taken several elements of the Plagueis novel, decanonised it, added their own little ingredients, denied things via their Twitter monkey (Pablo) and called him Snoke. He will be revealed as former Sith Lord and creator of The Chosen One by the end of VIII.

    Plagueis lives.
     
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  16. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    This is a paraphrase, not a direct quote, right?
     
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  17. BB-Rey

    BB-Rey Guardian of the Zoetrope

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    Direct quote from the beginning of the novel in relation to Darth Plagueis' death scene. I highlighted the bit that reminded me of the quote from Empire's End.
     
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  18. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    #PlagueisConfirmed
     
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  19. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    There's more such as this from the Plagueis novel:

    (Plagueis himself detected a similar "dark side presence" in the galaxy, and this presence he felt was most likely Palpatine).

    "When [Plagueis] reached out with the Force he could detect the presence of something or some being of near-equal power. Was it the dark side itself, or merely a vestige of his uncertainty? He had read the legends of Bane; how he had been hounded by the lingering presences of those he had defeated in order to rid the Sith Order of infighting, and return the Order to a genuine hegemony by instating the Rule of Two: a Master to embody power; an apprentice to crave it. To hear it told, Bane had even been hounded by the spirits of generations-dead Sith Lords whose tombs and manses he had desecrated in his fervent search for holocrons and other ancient devices offering wisdom and guidance. Was Tenebrous’s spirit the source of the power he sensed? Was there a brief period of survival after death during which a true Sith could continue to influence the world of the living?"
    But I don't think it was Plagueis that was communicating with Sidious from the Unknown Regions. If they did share a Force bond together, then Palpatine should've recognised his old Master's presence, but the novel seemingly implies Palpatine felt something more ancient than Plagueis, some "origin of the Force".

    I actually think it was Kyber-crystals that were communicating with Palpatine. But perhaps Snoke found these crystals and began "manipulating" them, drawing energy from them, which alerted Palpatine to feel its dark side presence.


    Maybe not even Kyber-crystals, but I do think Snoke was manipulating some form of ancient energy source found only in the Unknown Territories.

    THEORY: I think there are big connections between Snoke, Kyber-crystals, the Unknown Regions, Luke, Jakku and Anch-To:

    "Kyber crystals were Force-attuned crystals that grew randomly throughout the galaxy, and occurred in abundance in some places more than others. The crystals concentrated energy in a unique manner through the Force, resonating with it. The crystals exhibited a sort of "collective consciousness" veering on the edge of sentience, and could non-verbally communicate with both one another and living beings." - Wookiepedia

    "We know little about kyber crystals, because the Jedi Order worked to keep knowledge of them secret. But to put it simply, they focus energy and amplify its intensity. That once made them ideal for use in Jedi lightsabers; now it makes them ideal for use in laser weapons." ―Jan Dodonna


    "The crystals shared a special relationship with the Jedi for tens of thousands of years, and welcomed them to hear their song and learn their lessons." - Wookiepedia


    "Long ago in forgotten times, when the Sith and Jedi fought for control of the galaxy, weapons there were, of unimaginable power. Always at their heart, a kyber crystal was." ―Yoda

    The most important and prestigious vessels of the First Order had weapons upgraded with kyber crystals from some secret source in the Unknown Regions. - Wookiepedia


    "During the height of the Galactic Empire, Palpatine demanded deep space exploration of the Unknown Regions, using ancient navigational routes uncovered in the captured Jedi Temple as the backbone of such expeditions. It was in this manner that the Empire secured a small, frozen world with a natural abundance of energy-focusing kyber crystals. The Empire mined these crystals to create focusing arrays for the Death Stars' superlasers. When the First Order fled into the Unknown Regions, it turned this world into the heart of its secret holdings. A massive engineering project transformed it into Starkiller Base, a weapon platform of terrifying destructive power and range." - Complete Locations Book


    "The icy world that houses the Starkiller is the First Order’s greatest secret, and essential to its plan to conquer the galaxy." Star Wars, Databank


    "It is one of many scattered across the galaxy. All of them are laboratories, in a sense, and all of them look beyond the galaxy's margins in different directions." "Palpating began establishing the observatories before the start of the galactic empire, infusing each with purpose: some were meant to house ancient sith artifacts, others designed to host powerful weapon designs (or the weapons themselves), others still meant as prisons harnessing the life forces of those captured within for a variety of strange purposes"
    "This one, the jakku Observatory, has its own function, It is part of the contingency "
    The purpose of the Jakku observatory: contains a databank of computers "ancient computational mechanisms from an earlier civilization. From precisely when, Rax cannot say. The old republic? The fallen sith Empire?"
    The computers contain a star chart from outside the known galaxy

    The Emperor had mapped out the Unknown Regions outside the galaxy because something called to him. - Empire's End

    the dead-enders…are old men with white beards and crazy eyes. If you run into a dead-ender, he’ll chase you out of his territory, throwing rocks and babbling nonsense strings of numbers… the dead-enders do wear scraps of old Imperial armor, and something about them does remind me of military types. It’s like they’re always waiting to come to attention and march off somewhere…but I don’t think there was a base. Why would the Empire have thought twice about this place?” - Rey's survival guide
    Dead-enders on Jakku = ex-Imperials repeating co-ordinates that gain access to the Unknown Regions.

    Palpatine was using "ancient Jedi lore" and star charts to map out the Unknown regions (most likely to find the dark side "presence"), and the Imperial Research Base on Jakku, the "Observatory", held co-ordinates. The Empire destroyed this base because they didn't want their knowledge passed on after they withdrew into the Unknown.

    Lor San Tekka went to Jakku, which happens to be the location of that base. He was searching for "ancient Jedi lore" probably for the same reason Palpatine was using it. Luke was also searching for "ancient Jedi lore". Coincidence? I think both Luke and San Tekka were looking to find a way to access the Unknown Regions to find Snoke. I think Luke felt the same "presence" Palpatine felt, and I think he went to Anch-To because the Jedi Temple there holds the answer - the secret to find Snoke (and maybe some knowledge on Kyber-crystals). But maybe Luke, before going off into the Unknown, was waiting on Anch-To until Rey appeared. Why? Because he might've wanted to bring Rey along with him.
     
    #12159 Fuzzball, Feb 14, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
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  20. BB-Rey

    BB-Rey Guardian of the Zoetrope

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    Perhaps it's something greater than even Kyber Crystals. Something of the Dark Side and it's origins. This goes in line with my theory that Luke has visited the location on Jakku before (amongst some other little things I will share as more have read the book) and perhaps found his way to this spot but, he and who he was with weren't strong enough to control it like eventually Rey and Ben are together. It's something greater than themselves. Perhaps something that could control life over death.
     
    #12160 BB-Rey, Feb 14, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
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