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Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by BB-Rey, Sep 15, 2014.

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Would you like it if Darth Plagueis was the villain of the Sequel Trilogy?

  1. Yeah! He is a very interesting character!

    352 vote(s)
    42.6%
  2. No thanks, Plagueis is dead.

    189 vote(s)
    22.9%
  3. Nope! He never actually existed.

    29 vote(s)
    3.5%
  4. Yes, but he is in the movie as a corpse.

    20 vote(s)
    2.4%
  5. He will be mentioned in another "throwaway line" only.

    28 vote(s)
    3.4%
  6. He is Snoke in disguise.

    12 vote(s)
    1.5%
  7. Yes, his death was a ruse.

    92 vote(s)
    11.1%
  8. I don't care either way, brah.

    74 vote(s)
    9.0%
  9. Of course, who else would you choose?

    30 vote(s)
    3.6%
  1. Yordis

    Yordis Rebel Commander

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    I checked, it's not a direct quote... Here's the actual text, some from the Prologue, some from the Epilogue. Emphasis mine.
    A tremor took hold of the planet.

    Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world’s core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake’s epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.

    A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.

    ...

    And now dead.

    Or was he?

    Uncertainty rippled through Sidious, rage returning to his eyes. A tremor of his own making, or one of forewarning?

    Was it possible that the wily Muun had deceived him? Had Plagueis unlocked the key to immortality, and survived after all? Never mind that it would constitute a petty move for one so wise—for one who had professed to place the Grand Plan above all else. Had Plagueis become ensnared in a self-spun web of jealousy and possessiveness, victim of his own engineering, his own foibles?

    If he hadn’t been concerned for his own safety, Sidious might have pitied him.

    Wary of approaching the corpse of his former Master, he called on the Force to roll the aged Muun over onto his back. From that angle Plagueis looked almost as he had when Sidious first met him, decades earlier: smooth, hairless cranium; humped nose, with its bridge flattened as if from a shock-ball blow [lol...] and its sharp tip pressed almost to his upper lip; jutting lower jaw; sunken eyes still brimming with menace—a physical characteristic rarely encountered in a Muun. But then Plagueis had never been an ordinary Muun, nor an ordinary being of any sort.

    Sidious took care, still reaching out with the Force. On closer inspection, he saw that Plagueis’s already cyanotic flesh was smoothing out, his features relaxing.

    Faintly aware of the whir of air scrubbers and sounds of the outside world infiltrating the luxurious suite, he continued the vigil; then, in relief, he pulled himself up to his full height and let out his breath. This was no Sith trick. Not an instance of feigning death, but one of succumbing to its cold embrace. The being who had guided him to power was gone.

    ...

    Sidious moved back into the room to take a closer look at Plagueis. Then, after a long moment, he returned to the window and pulled the drapes aside.

    His spirit soared, but briefly.

    Something was shading his sense of triumph: a vague awareness of a power greater than himself. Was it Plagueis reaching out from the far side of death to vex him? Or was the feeling a mere consequence of apotheosis?


    Outside, the summits of the tallest buildings were gilded by the first rays of daylight.

    ...

    It wasn’t until he arrived in Theed and learned of Darth Maul’s defeat at the hands of the Jedi in a power-generator station that he understood in part the reason for the sense of loss and profound solitude he had experienced following the murder of Plagueis.
    As to the Dark Side presence that both Sidious and Plagueis sense, I have always found it interesting that whatever it is, Plagueis feels he is equal to it, while Sidious feels it is stronger than he is. Of course, none of that is canon, but at the time it felt to me like one of those concepts that would be brought up in the ST. /shrug

    @Fuzzball Very, very intriguing theory on the crystals!
     
    #12161 Yordis, Feb 15, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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  2. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Right, so what have I mi....HOLY F**K!

    sI7Mvbk.gif
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 15, 2017 ---
    "It is one of many scattered across the galaxy. All of them are laboratories, in a sense, and all of them look beyond the galaxy's margins in different directions." "Palpating began establishing the observatories before the start of the galactic empire, infusing each with purpose: some were meant to house ancient sith artifacts, others designed to host powerful weapon designs (or the weapons themselves), others still meant as prisons harnessing the life forces of those captured within for a variety of strange purposes"


    I literally don't know where to start. This is like Christmas.

    "ALL ABOARD THE PLAGUEIS TRAIN!".
     
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  3. ChewiesDog

    ChewiesDog Clone Commander

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    Only Palpatine can sense his force energy and he can be found on a planet that looks like...
    upload_2017-2-16_14-7-55.png
     
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  4. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    #plagueisconfirmedconfirmed
     
    • Old News Old News x 1
  5. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    It is the Opera that somehow glues everything together, who would guess it, the Opera.

    I..Snoke loves classical opera. Aftermath: E.E, I thought it was Gallius Rax (he isn't) but the Opera, all of them love opera. As the first one loved opera. That one music in the scene we all know...
    And Snoke was waiting in Unknown regions.

    ...it complicated suddenly.

     
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  6. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    Snoke + Opera?

    [​IMG]

    But seriously @McDiarmid, the Opera connection is intriguing to me to say the least:

    “Most people have no destiny… They are useless. They are not actors on the stage but just props. Just decorations to be moved around, painted, knocked over. Do you know opera? No. Of course you don’t. But we can fix that if you accept from me this new life.” - Emperor Palpatine to Rax, Life Debt

    Opera moves me. And yet none of it is real. Therein lies the crux of what you need to understand: Something does not need to be real for it to have an effect. The instruments and song, the drama and melodrama, the pathos and tragedy. It’s a lie. A fiction. And yet what happens on the stage speaks a kind of truth just the same. Facts and truth are separate things.” Rax, Life Debt
    EU Plagueis was murdered the night of the Grand Opera he attended with Palpatine. And as we all know, Snoke’s musical theme is similar to “Palpatine’s Teachings,” heard during the opera scene where Palpatine introduces “The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.”



    "JJ did speak to me about the feeling we would all want to have that this is Star Wars and particularly connected, if we could, to the earlier films. There are references to earlier thematic connections between character and music and so on... and that seemed a very natural thing to do and combine with new bionic material for the new characters." John Williams, interviewed on the music for TFA


    (John speaks further in that interview about the material for the new characters, such as Rey and Kylo, but not one word was spoken about Snoke.)
    But what do Snoke and "Palpatine's teachings" have in common beyond just similar musical themes? Well, both scenes are about the seduction of a young apprentice to the dark side, and the deceitful controlling relationship between Dark-side mentor and their student. But from an even broader story perspective, "Palpatine's teachings" has an interesting connection with the original trilogy:

    (Source) - The scene from RotS where Palpatine tells Anakin of the “Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise” sits perhaps as the crowning jewel of the PT. This scene added more interesting lore to the history of the Sith than any other. This scene is comparable to the classic moment where Obi Wan introduces Luke the concept of the Force in ANH and tells him tales of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader. If you like the Star Wars Ring Theory, which I certainly do, then this scene is in fact meant to parallel that scene from ANH, but as a darker, spookier, mirror-image:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The interesting thing is both the story from Obi Wan and the story from Palpatine have a part where someone is killed by an apprentice. Obi Wan describes Darth Vader killing Anakin. Palpatine describes Plagueis’ apprentice killing Plagueis. Both examples are in a sense disingenuous - Darth Vader was once Anakin and the killing was metaphorical, while Palpatine was the apprentice he was talking about. So the similarities of these scenes are extensive:

    [​IMG]

    There’s even another parallel. Obi Wan told Luke about his father, and it is widely believed that Palpatine is referring to Anakin’s immaculate conception when describing Plagueis’ ability to create life with the midicholrians; hence, the audience gets the hint that Plagueis is sort of Anakin’s father. Now given that Obi Wan’s story didn’t tell the whole story, is it possible that Palpatine’s story wasn’t the whole story? If Plagueis is reborn, the two scenes become near perfect rhymes.​

    @Yordis @master_shaitan @ITG @Lord of the Rens, this is where things get really interesting. There's something more, and I hope @McDiarmid you can confirm this for me as you seem to have already read Empire's end:

    AN ACOLYTE OF THE BEYOND HAD VISIONS OF THE SITH!

    "He [Remi] received the visions of the darkness: dreams of Sith, both ancient and recently living, plaguing his nights." "When the dreams started"
    "Plaguing his nights" - Are you kidding me!!?

    And do you remember this quote from Yupe Tashu from Aftermath?

    "I will say this: The Sith are masters of deception. It is no cowardice to hide in the shadows and strike when your enemy passes."
    Well, guess what, Yupe Tashu turns out to be the master of the Acolytes of the Beyond! Not only that, but it's heavily implied that the Acolytes turn out to be the Knights of Ren:

    Interlude, beginning of part four, Devaron:

    There is an old Jedi temple on Devaron. There are two dozen members of the Acolytes of the Beyond. One girl, Kiza, is a young member. She mentions that there are "masters" of the Acolytes. There is elaboration on the views of the Acolytes: "The shadows cannot feel this themselves, for they are not conduits for the Force, but merely slaves to it. As are all living things. All are caught in the river of power that is the Force, trapped by its currents. Only those who wield the dark side of the Force are capable of changing those currents; they are riverbreakers. They do not surrender to fate. They are its foes."

    The acolytes attacked a city one evening so that another member, Remi, could steal "a relic from a fallen Sith. A lightsaber." Only the most esteemed of the Acolytes are allowed to carry and use lightsabers. This is not an isolated attack; it is one of many across the galaxy.

    Kiza contemplates her role in all of this. At this time, "a new shadow joins them. This shadow, blacker than all the others. It is their master. It is YUPE TASHU"

    Tashu gives Kiza a relic. It is the mask of Viceroy Exim Panshard. "A mask made of meteoric metal and containing the screams of a hundred innocents slaughtered for the viceroy's pleasure. Masks have power. Some are worn in the grave. Others worn in life. This like the others in my collection, has gathered the darkness of the living Force! Wear it. You are anointed, Kiza of Corellia."

    Tashu also grabs the lightsaber from Remi and gives it to Kiza. Remi tries to turn on her and she kills him with the blade.
    IT ALSO SEEMS SNOKE WAS TARGETING BEN SOLO FROM WITHIN LEIA'S WOMB!
     
    #12166 Fuzzball, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
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  7. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    after many twists, suddenly, a Plaguesi who escaped into unknown regions is not unima
    A new revelation (Aftermath: Empire's End ends one mystery about a Sequel Trilogy character ), that Snoke was "living" in a Unknown regions of the Galaxy has shortened the entitiy of Snoke into just 2 possibilities.

    Snoke is:

    1. A strong source of the Dark side that Palpatine felt could be lurking in the Unknoiwn regions of the galaxy ,and was obsessed to find it.

    2. A strong source of the Dark side that Palpatine was obsessed to find for other reasons, and he felt it coud have be now hiding in the Unknown regions of the galaxy ( where else)

    The possibility 1 is by far most plausible if we take into acount Pablo Hidalgo's statements abou D.P. the Wise, only some little problems are left:
    -Why is this "source of dark energy" looking like someone has beat a hell out of him some time in his past, and why was his "beaten" look so necessary to be introduced if it is not important for his history explanation?

    -Another possibly groundbreaking detail: "it is said in the book Palpatine said only HE could feelt this "source od Dark Side"..as .almost like the two had some previous connection, just like Vader felt Obi-Wan on Death Star and have felt Luke over the regular"senses" (Palps couldn't felt Luke on Endor but Vader did) , because tight connection between the two.
     
    #12167 McDiarmid, Feb 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
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  8. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    Plagueis is back. In before the lock....

    @master_shaitan - You've got to be back on board the train, right?
     
    #12168 ITG, Feb 19, 2017
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  9. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Who's this Palpating character?
     
  10. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Of course, what could possibly go wrong?

     
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  11. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    All aboard! The Plagueis love train.

     
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  12. ITG

    ITG Force Sensitive

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    Don't be daft. Plagueis won't let us down...

     
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  13. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 19, 2017 ---
    @ITG 6 months ago after Pablo's infamous #SnokeIsSnoke Tweet:

     
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  14. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Hang on...the quote above...Does this mean Plagueis being a Muun is canon once again?
     
  15. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    Which quote?
     
  16. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    In short we now know Snoke was in the Unknown regions of the Galaxy from Clone Wars to the Battle of Endor.

    We now know Palpatine was searching for him, feeling it as a Source of Dark Side.

    Palpatine claims he was the only one who could felt this source of Dark Side.

    Palpatine is obsessed to find the one.

    His obsession is very old, starts very early, few years before Clone Wars, even before he became Chancelor, when he cames to Jakku, and starts to excavate using droids.

    So Obsession with the Source of The Dark side (Snoke) in Unknown regions starts by Palps in practice from the moment he became Master, means killed his old Master.

    Palps obtained his master's protocol droid with important data.
     
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  17. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    "Wary of approaching the corpse of his former Master, he called on the Force to roll the aged Muun over onto his back. From that angle Plagueis looked almost as he had when Sidious first met him, decades earlier" - from @Yordis

    Also, that 15 minute version of Palpatine's Teachings is awesome! Just what I've been looking for.
     
  18. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    It's not canon. That's from James Luceno's EU Darth Plagueis novel.
     
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  19. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Ah. Right.
     
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  20. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Playing into the Rax/Snoke/Opera connection, it's worth mentioning that "Palpatine's Teachings" is supposedly source music (as in, it's part of the opera).

    Something I'd been musing over for quite a while was that perhaps Rax became Snoke and listened to opera - hence, making Snoke's theme source music - whilst chatting to Kylo and Hux, but let's take this a step further: perhaps Sheev's manipulation of and teachings to Gallius are mirroring his own teachings from Plagueis, in which case why would Plagueis/Snoke not have an operatic choir theme?
     
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