Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

He didn't know who Rey's parents were when he scored TFA, so why would they tell him who Snoke is?

 

I've said it before, but I'll say it again... I strongly believe that if GL were still in charge, or if Disney were still using the GL treatments for the ST that were included in sale of Lucasfilm, Snoke would indeed be Plagueis. However, since they threw all that out and started again with JJ and Kasdan writing, I strongly believe that Snoke will be a new "Disney" character. With all the same abilities as Plagueis. He will be Plagueis in all but name for the sake of them saying they created him.

This is what I believe.

 

Sith always have a Sith moniker next to their real name. Snoke is definitely not Plagueis and he's definitely not a Sith........"not for a long time" at least. He's had an apprentice before, but that one ended in failure. Could it be? Could it be?

 

As the Episode VIII trailer draws excitingly closer, my belief that Mr Plagueis will be involved with the sequels is slowly dwindling to the point that I'm currently at roughly 30% Snoke is Plagueis. Each day, my once strong belief is withering away. The reality is gradually kicking in. The awful truth cannot be avoided much longer I'm afraid. It's time I reluctantly prepare for the inevitable outcome. Say it with me guys... "Plagueis sucks. He always did. Come on, this loser got killed in his sleep. What an idiot! And we really wanted this moron to be Snoke?"...



Ok... despite what I just said, I'm about to write a stupidly long post on Plagueis that I've been thinking about for a few months (oh, did I forget to mention that I'm really weird?). In fact, this post is going to be ridiculously long. Like "What the heck were you even thinking posting that!" long...

(DISCLAIMER! By the time you finish reading all this crap, Ep VIII will have already come and gone (DON'T SAY I DIDN'T WARN YOU!)).

So... over a year ago, I decided to join the Cantina (mainly to follow this thread, but to also expand my limited SW knowledge). Previously, I was known as user "kb93" (that name no longer has any meaning to me), but I'm still a huge Plagueis fan. But the funny thing is, for nearly 10 years, I had no clue whatsoever about Plagueis and he meant absolutely nothing to me.

So why on earth do I have a fascination with this weird-looking alien? I really don't know...

Growing up as a kid during the prequels, I was only a casual SW fan, seeing the movies maybe once or twice, and my SW knowledge was limited to say the least. I definitely had no idea who the hell Darth Plagueis was! It was only 3 months before TFA was released was the first time I ever heard the name Plagueis and first got excited about Star Wars. That's right. I first discovered the name Snoke before I discovered Plagueis.

But to those that say, "Plagueis would have zero meaning to the audience" are deeply mistaken. Connecting Snoke to Vader or Sidious has far more meaning and value to me than any elaborate backstory for Snoke-Random. I didn't have a clue who Plagueis was and I didn't care, but I realise now just how important his character can potentially be to this saga.

My biggest worry for the sequels is Snoke's demise will fall flat. After Vader and Sidious, the epitome of evil, how do you possibly add gravitas to this character, within the confines of this story, without connecting him to Vader or Sidious? I don't think it's possible.

Rian Johnson could introduce something totally left-field, something completely out-the-box that nobody is expecting, and it will blow us all away. At the end of the day, we all want Snoke to be a great addition to this saga and the best possible character he can be. He can be just that without being Plagueis, but I do have my doubts about that possibility.

If I were to accept Pablo as 100% the truth, it would save me a lot of time and bother, but that's just not as fun, is it? The one thing stopping me from believing him completely is the fact we don't know the canon species of Plagueis. So then, I decided to make a comprehensive list on why I think, from a storytelling perspective, Plagueis should absolutely be Snoke (yes, I did just say that).

For me, the main reasons are:

• JJ's mystery box
• James Luceno's comments
• The musical cues
• Snoke's injuries and appearance
• Snoke's lack of originality (similarities to the Emperor and EU Plagueis)
• The symbolism and mythology of the snake
• The recurring motif of transcending death - an underlying theme prevalent throughout ALL of Star Wars and a common theme amongst overarching villains in the Fantasy genre
  
• Creating a powerful and meaningful antagonist to rival the legacies of the Skywalkers, the Jedi, the Sith and the Emperor

(Some of these points have been discussed with a fine-tooth comb in this thread already so I'm not going fully into each one).

First, what do we know about Snoke so far?...

Snoke is a "mysterious", "slender", "very, very thin", "7 foot something tall", bald, "pale", "old", "wounded", "fragile", "humanoid", alien male of unknown species, who is "powerful with the Dark Side of the Force", but suffered a life-threatening attack, a long time ago, which has left him with lasting facial scars "long since healed over", breathing difficulties and physical vulnerability.

Whilst hidden, Snoke has paid attention to the unfolding events that have transpired in the galaxy. He has seen the rise and fall of the Empire and, subsequently, he has emerged from the shadows to lead the First Order, filling the void left from the destruction of the Empire and the Sith. Despite a non-Sith himself, Snoke shares connections with the Emperor (music, huge hologram, Skywalker apprentice, superweapon) and his goal is to destroy the last remaining Jedi.

From the beginning, Snoke has always been interested in Ben Solo, possibly before Ben was even born, knowing that he would be extremely powerful with the Force (born with equal potential for the Dark or for the Light), realising - as a Skywalker descendant - Kylo's strong bond to Darth Vader (the Dark), but to also Leia and Luke (the Light). Ever since, Snoke has been twisting Kylo Ren into believing, that by removing the Light within himself and committing fully to the Dark Side, he will have the necessary power to finish his grandfather's destiny - the eradication of the Jedi Order.

Before taking Kylo Ren under his tutelage, Snoke previously had at least one other student, but commented that Kylo is his most promising student to succeed. Kylo respects his mentor, describing him as "wise", believing Snoke's teachings are what gives him his great strength with the Dark Side. However, Snoke believes Kylo's great power goes beyond his own teachings, hinting that Kylo's power is "pure" (even likening his relationship to that of a sculptor molding a masterpiece from pure materials).

Snoke's relationship with Kylo is almost a reversal of the Sith's "Rule of Two" as the apprentice is granted the title of "Master". Snoke understands, to a great degree, that the reason for the downfall of the Sith Empire was Vader's foolish error of judgement (when the apprentice betrayed the Master).
​

If only there was an interesting EU character available to Disney that could've been used as the basis for Snoke's origins that perfectly fits the timeline, perfectly fits the story, shares similar motivations, shares the same prequel references, shares a similar physical resemblance... but I guess there wasn't one. Which is a great shame because Disney have shown a previous willingness to bring EU characters into canon - provided they fit the story - because they understand the credibility these characters have with the fans.

Casing Point: Thrawn. An example of Lucasfilm using the right story to introduce a credible EU character to a wider audience.

How do you approach bringing [Thrawn into canon] and giving people what they have been begging for and what they will love without it being just fan-service?

I've always leaned towards if we're going to create something we should check and see if existed already to the fans because it has way more value if we bring that in. Why would I just replace it with something new? So if we're going to do a big military leader yeah I could create a new guy sure, but what about Thrawn? Thrawn is great. Thrawn is a character we all know, he has a lot of credibility. So then you ask yourself is it right to use him and can we use him in a way that is similar to the books, or are we using him and it's going to go completely into left-field?

Well, it comes up because it's important to the story and so it's not fan-service at inception point. You know that having Thrawn would be a good idea and, like I said, Kiri Hart [Head of Lucasfilm story group] and I really liked the character and were thinking of a way to include him from the first season, but it had to be special and have its own space and we had to figure out how he would fit in and we didn't want to feed him every week and there was a lot of important things to input. I mean it's a funny thing having been here a while and actually telling Star Wars stories, I'm in a very odd, unique position, which is that there is this notion that everything changed when everything became legends and I see why people think that, but, having worked with George, I can tell you that he was always very clear - and he made it very clear - that the films and the TV shows were the only thing that he considered canon. That was it, so everything else was a world of fun ideas, exciting characters, great possibilities, but the EU was to explore all those things... -- Dave Filoni​

The Darth Plagueis novel is acclaimed by fans as one of the greatest EU novels. Even Matt Martin, a creative executive for the Lucasfilm story group, tweeted as much:

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If someone like Filoni is working with the story group to explore EU characters first before thinking of creating new ones, then it would be a great shame if Plagueis wasn't even discussed as a potential villain to succeed the Emperor. IT'S THE PERFECT STORY.

JJ's Mystery Box

The most obvious reasons against Plagueis from a story perspective are:

• Snoke's not a Muun.
• Snoke's not a Sith.
• Snoke's not called Darth Plagueis. Like, duuh...

However, none of these things are essential to the story. In fact, I would go as far to say that Plagueis still being a Sith wouldn't make much sense (I'll explain why later on). But more than that, if any of those above things were in fact true then the mystery of his character would be ruined. We would know exactly who he is. This is not something JJ Abrams would likely want to reveal. The Emperor was built on mystery and Snoke has been built on mystery too. And that's something JJ wanted - a call back to the mysterious Emperor. However, Snoke is even more mysterious (at least the Emperor was referenced in a film prior to being introduced).

"[The mystery box] represents infinite possibility. It represents hope. It represents potential. And what I love about this box, and what I realize I sort of do in whatever it is that I do, is I find myself drawn to infinite possibility, that sense of potential. And I realize that mystery is the catalyst for imagination. Now, it's not the most ground-breaking idea, but when I started to think that maybe there are times when mystery is more important than knowledge, I started getting interested in this." -- J.J Abrams​

"[Snoke's] badly scarred and damaged – but the cause of his wounds remains a mystery. JJ always envisaged Snoke as a monumental figure, with similarities in size to the Lincoln memorial. He was always intended to be revealed as a hologram projection at the end of his first sequence."
"Snoke’s overall shape was finalised in the form of a physical sculpt about midway through production. We took this design and started to explore ideas for his material and surface qualities. JJ wanted a mysterious, almost diaphanous look for Snoke. He was interested in the contrast between his damaged and fragile appearance, and Andy’s subtle but powerful performance. We used reference images of jellyfish to explore ideas of a translucent quality to his skin. To enhance this we built a complete internal structure for his head, including a skull and blood vessels which could be glimpsed occasionally through certain areas" -- Scott Pritchard (ILM's Compositing Sequence Supervisor)​

James Luceno's comments

Tarkin Interview - On the recanonized elements of his earlier novels such as Dark Lord and Darth Plagueis:

"I write the book. I don't want to be too constrained by [rebranded canon]. I wait for the story board to kind of pass judgment. If there's a place they don't want me to go or mention, a species they think is problematic, they get back to me and ask me to tweak this or change this. I didn't let influence my storytelling."

"When I met with them, I had a sense of what the gameplan was. Not to rely so much on the existing EU. I did a lot of editorial work myself, I wrote a first draft and changed things that I myself thought might be problematic. However, they did ask me to change the species of a couple of characters, there were some minor cuts, but it wasn't an intrusive process. And they didn't really dictate to me where I could go."

How was your experience with working with the new Lucasfilm story group?

"...Throughout the outline process and following the submission of a first draft, the Story Group kept me on target, as it were, and reined me in from including too many references and too much expository prose."

Catalyst novel interview - Luceno on the future of Plagueis in canon material...

"I think [Plagueis in canon] is an ongoing discussion and I haven't pushed hard to [write a new Plagueis novel]. I think Plagueis is out there for anyone that wants to read it, and they can take the book as Legends or as canon, depending on whatever their own viewpoint is. So I haven't pushed one way or another, and it's hard to know in the future which way characters are going to be developed in continuity. So maybe some things will be used and some things won't. That's the way it is."​

Who's discussing Plagueis (outside of Luceno)? The story group? Why are they discussing it? What could they possibly be discussing? Are they planning a new backstory for him? Let's just say for giggles Snoke is 100% NOT Plagueis, but Disney are still thinking about bringing Plagueis back into canon. Let's also say Disney will make Plagueis roughly 50% the same as EU Plagueis. Does anyone else not see the confusion in having two seperate back stories for Snoke and Plagueis, both characters who are from the same time period, who have similar physical stature, description, damaging injuries, voice, goals and ambitions, methods, music. Won't there be a conflicting overlap in their stories?

This is the problem for Disney with their introduction of vanilla, run-of-the mill TFA Snoke. He's too similar to Plagueis:

Snoke's similarities with EU Plagueis

• Music.
• Very tall.
• Very Thin.
• Deep, Enligh Accent (Audiobook)
• Pale, translucent skin.
• Described as wise by their apprentice.
• Severe cuts/wounds (lacerations of jaw, mouth and neck).
• Breathing difficulties (shortness of breath).
• Vast knowledge of the Dark Side.
• Mysterious and secretive.
• Used (massive) holograms to communicate with apprentice.
• Thought the galaxy needed leadership from an "enlightened leader"
• Wanted to provide stability and order by destroying the Jedi and the Republic.
• Wanted to use super-weapons to decimate ENTIRE star-systems.
• Keenly interested in the Skywalker power.
• Tasked Dark Side apprentice to kill their own father.

Snoke's injuries/breathing difficulties

The writers made a very intentional decision to convey just how important Snoke's injuries are to his character and backstory. This is most likely the reason why he's been hiding for so long, why he has been waiting for his perfect moment to strike, why he didn't confront the Jedi and Sith directly, why he won't confront Luke Skywalker directly now, why he went after Ben Solo's power... all because of his severe injuries.

The novel didn't even mention the massive, very deep scar wound covering the left side of Snoke's neck, near his trachea (image above). Just look at that thing!​

Think of the potential blood loss/airway damage Snoke could've received from that neck injury alone. That's a potential fatal injury for most people. Some might even say Snoke might benefit from a breath mask!

When Snoke speaks, it's noticeable he struggles breathing normally (he speaks slowly and breathes quite heavily whilst talking). He even, one time, needed a breather mid-sentence talking to General Hux. Maybe his neck injury was a cause of this.

From James Luceno's novel, Plagueis suffered very similar injuries to Snoke:

Darth Plagueis novel

" a disk had made off with a considerable hunk of his jawbone and neck, and in its cruel passing had severed his trachea and several blood vessels."

"Sidious pivoted to see his Master limp into the room, mouth, chin, and neck concealed behind a breath mask or transpirator of some sort."

"A triangular breath mask covered his ruined prognathus lower jaw, his mouth, part of his long neck, and what remained of the craggy nose ..."​

The musical cues

"JJ did speak to me about the feeling we would all want to have that this is Star Wars and particularly connected, if we could, to the earlier films. There are references to earlier thematic connections between character and music and so on... and that seemed a very natural thing to do and combine with new bionic material for the new characters." -- John Williams

(John Williams speaks further in that interview about the new bionic material for the new characters, such as Rey and Kylo, but does not mention Snoke).​

Snoke's similarities with the Emperor:

• Share scenes with similar musical themes
• Seek to destroy the Jedi and the Republic
• Seek to control the galaxy and restore order
• Operate mainly within the shadows
• Use a large military force (mainly Stormtroopers)
• Construct a super weapon to destroy planets
• Show keen interest in the Skywalker power
• Track the progress of a young Skywalker Jedi before manipulating him to become their Dark Side apprentice
• Convert their Skywalker apprentice into a Jedi killer
• Communicate to Skywalker apprentice through MASSIVE hologram
• Allow Skywalker apprentice significant freedom with military hierarchy

Emperor's first appearance​

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VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?
EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.
VADER: I have felt it.
EMPEROR: We have a new enemy - Luke Skywalker.
VADER: Yes, my master.
EMPEROR: He could destroy us.​

Snoke's first appearance​

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SNOKE: ... Leading them to the last Jedi. If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise.

SNOKE: There's been an awakening. Have you felt it?
KYLO REN: Yes.​

Both Snoke and the Emperor were introduced to us very much in the same style: - a Dark Side teacher uses a huge hologram to inform their manipulated Jedi-turned-bad Skywalker apprentice about the potential threat of Luke Skywalker and that a significant disruption in the (cosmic) Force exists.

There are a few ways of looking at these similarities:

1. Snoke just happens to be a non-Sith very similar to the Emperor. Just sheer coincidence.
2. Snoke is a rehashed Emperor 2.0. The writers lacked originality, struggled to introduce a brand new character, so played it safe by reusing the Emperor.
3. The writers intentionally drew connections between Snoke and the Emperor because there is a deeper connection between these two that we are yet to discover.

I prefer option 3. That way, Snoke imitating the Emperor is very easily explainable story-wise - Snoke was the Emperor's master, taught his apprentice everything he knew, and that's why these two were introduced to us, and operate in, a remarkably similar style.

The Symbolism and Mythology of the Snake:

A snake, symbolically, can wonderfully represent the story of a resurrected Plagueis.

But @master_shaitan 's terrific post (my favourite in this entire 600+ page thread) can explain near perfectly everything I wanted to say:

Talking of Snakes and Plagueis...

I think one of the most compelling arguments for Snoke being Plagueis is in what snakes symbolise in mythology.
Now, I think it is fair to assume that Snoke will be somewhat snake like. Obviously the name is similar but we have also seen early concept art that suggests they were going down that route.
So what do snakes represent in mythology?

Well, they largely symbolise fertility and rebirth. Alongside this are prominent themes of healing and immortality.
What's more, probably the most well known story about a mythological Snake is the one that speaks to Eve in the Garden of Eden.
This ancient myth speaks of the deceptiveness and wisdom of the snake.
(It should also be noted that there are numerous mythological tales where a snake is coiled around a staff. The staff of Moses transformed from a staff into a snake for instance).

Now this brings me on to Luke Skywalker and The Force Awakens.
We have been told that TFA is essentially based upon the question:
"Who is Luke Skywalker".
This essentially means, who is Luke Skywalker to Rey, Finn, Kylo, Poe and well, everyone else. What does Luke represent to them? What is his legacy?

These questions we can speculate on. But in short, to the heroes he is the shining light. The inspiration.
To the bad guys he is the terrorist. The 'evil' Force that is in their way and who destroyed their inspiration - Darth Vader (and Palpatine?).

We then must ask ourselves, what kind of villain could/should be written that would be the opposite side of the coin to Luke? What powers/threat would this new villain pose that would tie in with this central question ('Who is Luke Skywalker")?

Firstly, Luke's legacy is dependent on his being famous/infamous. Would Snoke therefore be the opposite? Behind the curtain. Hidden. In the shadows?
Luke is an 'inspiration' for people to follow. Snoke is behind the scenes controlling people - making them hate [Luke].

It's worth now mentioning that we recently heard that Snoke was critical in turning Kylo Ren to the Dark Side. And we know that Kylo Ren is a Vader obsessive. He wishes to fulfill 'their' destiny.

Snoke must be someone who can utterly counter Luke Skywalker's legacy. He must be someone that can 'put out' the shining light of the 'light side'.
It seems clear to me that part of this is to do with both Kylo Ren's seduction to the Dark Side and pressing upon him this Vader worship.
This undermines Luke. This threatens his immediate legacy. Snoke is creating the anti-Luke. He is resurrecting Darth Vader.
[I would speculate that Snoke (being the deceptive snake) has deceived Kylo Ren - feeding him an alternative Darth Vader story and could likely be using visions of some kind to back up his lies].

So how does this tie in with Darth Plagueis (obvious symbolic connections with Snakes aside)?

Well, it could be said that Darth Plagueis created Anakin Skywalker and thus Darth Vader. Already we have a basic repetition. He created Vader. Snoke 'created' Kylo Ren. A copy of Darth Vader. Also, Darth Plagueis' legacy was Darth Vader. Luke 'destroyed' Vader. In 'resurrecting' Darth Vader with Kylo Ren, Plagueis is reversing Luke's success. It's the classic vengeful actions of the snake in mythology. Striking back.

If Plagueis indeed survived then he disguised himself as Snoke - thus when he reveals his true self (as the father of Darth Vader) we yet again have a parallel with the Vader story. Considering the deceptive nature of the snake (in mythology) it isn't a stretch to assume that 'Snoke' is a mask. Who will be revealed when Snoke sheds his skin?!

Going back to Kylo, he calls it "our destiny" when discussing destroying the last Jedi and the Resistance. "Our" I assume is himself and Vader.
Well, that wasn't Vader's destiny. So Snoke must've deceived Kylo into believing Vader did have another destiny.
I would therefore speculate that Snoke/Plagueis would've proposed to Kylo that Vader's mission was, at the very least, to restore the influence of the Dark Side across the galaxy. Considering that Plagueis created Vader (maybe!) then he is probably in the best position to deceive others into believing an alternative story behind the destiny of the chosen one.

So Snoke looks like a deceptive character who has 'resurrected Darth Vader' in a move to destroy the last Jedi and the Resistance.
It's essentially the ancient Sith plan. The question is whether it is a continuation. What I mean by that is if this is Plagueis continuing the great plan he was involved in and replacing the dead Vader with Kylo to achieve this?

But let's look directly at the original points about the snake and Plagueis.
Plagueis learned to save others from death. Healing.
Plagueis, as is implied by Palpatine, sought to be able to save himself from death/attain immortality.
Plagueis potentially created Anakin Skywalker - fertility and reproduction.
Then we also have the prominent links between staffs and snakes.

Snoke's goal is to defeat Luke Skywalker and his legacy. Only then can he achieve absolute power.
To do this he has 'created' Kylo Ren, a 'clone' of Darth Vader. Essentially, repeating what Plagueis/he did several decades ago before his 'murder' at the hands of Palpatine.

I'll be honest, I'm really doubtful that Snoke is Plagueis. Serkis' "new character" comment, JJ's dismissal - it's pretty damning.
But the story does makes sense.
The connections are numerous.
The symbolism is everywhere.
It will be a massive f**king coincidence!​

@master_shaitan specifically mentions the ties between snakes and Plagueis (healing, immortality, fertility and reproduction). But there is another I would like to discuss - transformation.

Sloughing (the process of when a snake sheds its old skin) is representative of renewal, rebirth and transformation. The casting off of the skin, metaphorically, represents the release of old ways of thinking that don't work in our lives. The fresh new skin found underneath is rebirth and new beginnings... purification.

For Plagueis, this would be him denouncing his old Sith ways to renew himself once more and begin again. Plagueis would've witnessed TWICE the fatal flaw in the Sith's rule of Two (once by his own apprentice, second time by Vader). A Sith apprentice always seeks to overthrow their Master. Therefore, why would a fragile and weakened Plagueis risk making the exact same mistake with his new apprentice, Kylo Ren, whose power he absolutely requires? That would be most unwise...

But have you noticed how Snoke calls Kylo "Master" (almost like Snoke has "reversed" the Sith's Rule of Two)? Snoke treats Kylo with a greater sense of value and, in return, Kylo doesn't feel like a shackled slave. It seems to me like Snoke is trying to avoid repeating the same mistakes of past Sith Lords. The Knights of Ren are Kylo's play toy, but it's all a facade allowed by Snoke to massage Kylo's ego and misguide him with a false sense of destiny. The Knights have given Kylo a sense of purpose with the Dark Side (something Vader never had). The Knights have taught Kylo about the code of Knights. About Honour. Nobility. Loyalty. A Warrior Ethos. This is unlike the traditional toxic Master-apprentice relationship of past Sith.

The recurring motif of transcending death - an underlying theme prevalent throughout ALL of Star Wars:

"J.J. [Abrams] wanted to base Snoke on the Hammer Films horror movies, giving the design a ghoulish look. We made a bust out of marble powder, because we talked about him being very pale. And I imagined him to be a beautiful marble sculpture, so dark and menacing, but actually quite beautiful to look at. It’s almost like Snoke was quite handsome when he was younger. And in my mind, the more powerful he’s become, the more the Dark Side consumes him. We made his eyes really pale, pale blue so the whites of his eyes are almost the same color as his skin and costume. Piercing.". - Senior sculptor Ivan Manzella​

Hammer Film Productions created numerous films based on classic characters from the Horror genre including, most notably, Frankenstein, Dracula and the Mummy - interestingly, Christopher Lee, Peter Cushing and David Prowse were all involved with these productions. These famous characters of the Horror genre are typically associated with the themes of death, resurrection, immortality and prolonging life.

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Just like the characters from the Hammer Films, I feel Snoke will be connected to the themes of resurrection and immortality too. His decayed, rotten, "ghoulish" appearance provokes that imagery in my mind - that of an unnatural and undead alien, twisted by the Dark Side of the Force and holding onto dear life. EU Plagueis had the appearance similar to the Grim Reaper i.e. the personification of Death (a possible reason why George Lucas originally liked the Muun species design).

If you look at other popular Fantasy series', such as Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and Game of Thrones, the overarching villains in those sagas are all connected to the themes of resurrection and/or immortality. For example, Voldemort, Sauron and the White Walkers, during the time when the main plot takes place, seek to recover their lost power after having been considered dead or at least no longer a threat. Resurrection and immortality are also common tropes in the fantasy/fiction genre and they are also major themes in religions and mythology - both physical and spiritual. These themes have been prevalent in Star Wars from the BEGINNING. Why would Snoke be any different?

The Transcendence Theory (Link to full article)

Although not an overt presence, transcending death by gaining immortality has been a critical theme that drives the plot of Official Canon. Provided below is a timeline of how and when various Jedi attain immortality as Force Ghosts:

• Episode I: The Phantom Menace: Jedi Knight Qui-Gon Jinn lost his battle with Darth Maul and died. In the years prior to his death, Qui-Gon Jinn began studying the secrets of eternal consciousness after death. Qui-Gon Jinn’s training in manifesting his consciousness and likeness after death was cut short by his untimely death at the hands of Darth Maul, however he was able to utilize his incomplete training to return as an immortal, disembodied voice.

• Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Season 6: In the waning days of the Clone Wars, Qui-Gon Jinn manifested his consciousness and instructed Yoda to learn the secrets of immortality:

• Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Season 6: Following Qui-Gon Jinn’s instructions, Yoda travels to the planet in the center of the galaxy where life is believed to have been created and seeks out the knowledge of immortality. Yoda meets the Force Priestess(es), an ancient being(s) long since dead, who taught Yoda how to use the Force in order to manifest his consciousness and likeness after death. Yoda learns the secrets of immortality right before the events of Revenge of the Sith:

• Episode III: Revenge of the Sith: After the fall of Galactic Republic and Jedi Order, Yoda tells Obi-Wan Kenobi that he has communed with Qui-Gon Jinn from the netherworld of the Force. Yoda passes on what he has learned from Qui-Gon Jinn and the Force Priestess to Obi-Wan Kenobi, which allows yet another Jedi to eventually gain immortality:

• Episode IV: A New Hope: In truth, Obi-Wan Kenobi was the original Force Ghost when he manifested his consciousness after his death at the hands of Darth Vader. We won’t go into every appearance Obi-Wan Kenobi makes as a Force Ghost from this point, but we feel the following clips are always worth showing:

• Episode VI: Return of the Jedi: Finally, we’ve reached the point of one of the most iconic Star Wars scenes — Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin Skywalker watching over Luke as immortal Force Ghosts on the planet Endor.

Question: Why are these specific events important? How are they relevant to Darth Plagueis and the Transcendence Theory?
Answer: Transcending death is a reoccurring theme with deep implications on almost every major Star Wars Character.

• In Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Anakin’s primary motivation for turning to the Dark Side was to save Padme by learning how to save others from death. Unfortunately for Anakin, he never succeeded in saving Padme from her death and he never learned the secrets of immortality as Darth Vader. Only after redeeming himself and returning to the Light Side did Anakin achieve immortality. Otherwise interpreted, the story of Anakin and thus, the connective tissue of the Star Wars universe, is a story of man’s attempt to transcend death, via two diametrically opposed paths.

• As shown in the timeline of clips and descriptions above, every Jedi that died out of the major Star Wars characters succeeded in transcending death, while every Sith has failed at transcending death (so far as we know). The first six Star Wars films make clear that the Light Side of the force is the only true path to immortality and thus, the only way to attain ultimate enlightenment. If we extrapolate this point, George Lucas is telling the world that the path to enlightenment, love, and knowledge, is through human compassion, selflessness, and service for the greater good.

• Supreme Leader Snoke revealing himself to be an immortal Darth Plagueis would be a logical introduction of the next phase of the eternal struggle between the Light and Dark sides of the Force and their divergent methods of transcending death.

​

 

Part 2 - Other Snoke Alternatives

"For goodness sake, shut up about Plagueis already!"...

This is going to be part two of my long-ass post. Yes, that's right ladies and gentlemen, we're only halfway there...

Now, I'm going to try and take my rose-tinted Plagueis glasses off and begrudgingly talk about Snoke...

So... we know Snoke resided within the Unknown Regions. For me, there are a few main possibilities for how he managed to get out there. Either he was:

1. Originally from the Unknown Regions
2. Fled to the Unknown Regions
3. Imprisoned within the Unknown Regions
4. *Wild Card* - Resurrected from the netherworld of the Force

Either way, he waited for the destruction of the Empire for his moment to strike. He did not intervene at any point within the main saga episodes. From the options listed, "2" is most plausible to me i.e he fled to the Unknown Regions to regain his strength in a location where no one would be able to find him. Judging by the sheer extent of his injuries, I can see why Snoke would decide to wait for his opportune moment to strike. The old Sith did something similar before:

Sith Empire (Post–Great Hyperspace War)

"The true Sith have spent centuries building their strength in the depths of unknown space. The Sith Emperor patiently planned for the day when his Sith Empire would repay the Jedi for the humiliating defeats of the past. In that time, generations of Sith have come and gone, working hard and devoting their lives to the dream of vengeance."

In the aftermath of the Great Hyperspace War of 5000 BBY, the remnants of the original Sith Empire established a new Sith Empire in the galaxy's Unknown Regions. This Empire, also known as the True Sith sect, was created after Sith survivors of Dark Lord of the Sith Naga Sadow's disastrous campaign against the Galactic Republic fled known space to escape persecution by the Republic and its Jedi Order. Led by the Sith Lord Vitiate, the refugees wandered aimlessly through space in search of a new home. Twenty years after their departure from the original Empire's territory, the Sith discovered the forgotten world of Dromund Kaas and settled it to begin the process of rebuilding.

Around three hundred years later, the Sith Empire—still under the command of Vitiate —was ready to return to the greater galaxy. After covertly installing puppet governments on Republic worlds across the Outer Rim Territories, the Sith invaded Republic space in an onslaught of unrivaled proportions.

"Following a crushing defeat in the Great Hyperspace War, the handful of surviving Sith desperately sought to escape annihilation at the hands of their Jedi foes. The desperate Sith, leaving their collective destiny to chance, chose to forgo all known hyperspace routes and attempt a series of dangerously random hyperspace jumps and blind scouting missions."

"Our time has come. For three hundred years, we prepared. We grew stronger. While you rested in your cradle of power, believing your people were safe and protected. You were trusted to lead the Republic but you were deceived, as our powers of the Dark Side have blinded you. You assumed no force could challenge you and now… finally, we have returned."

―Sith Lord Darth Malgus during the Sacking of Coruscant​

No matter how he came to be within the Unknown Regions, we know Snoke has been badly scarred and wounded. From other EU material, Snoke's injuries and appearance are most similar to that of Darth Sion:

Darth Sion



Darth Sion, the Lord of Pain, was a Sith Lord who lived in the time of the Old Sith Wars. As a Sith Marauder in the Great Sith War, Sion fought for Exar Kun's Sith Empire until the day he was struck down. Rather than die, though, Sion found that by calling on his pain, anger, and hatred, he could rise from certain death and achieve immortality, at the cost of all-consuming agony. With a body fractured and decomposing, but held together by the dark side of the Force, Sion survived the Great Sith War. Sion differed from prior Sith in that the death of the Jedi Order was his sole objective; the manner in which he fought the Jedi differed too, lying in hiding and striking from darkness.

In his years as a Sith Marauder, Sion regularly fought on the front lines of the Great Sith War, and in surviving, he built up a tolerance to pain. When at last he achieved his method of immortality, every centimeter of Sion's body crawled with agony. Sion's flesh was decomposing, covered in cracks and scars, and his body existed in a state of undeath. His skeleton was fractured in thousands of places, as every bone in his body had been splintered repeatedly and then reassembled. The Force was all that held him together.​

Snoke either sustained his damaging injuries most likely from either:

1. A source of the Dark Side
2. A Force user (most likely preceding Ep I-VI)

If it's route 1, then Snoke's injuries were most likely self-inflicted and this source is something we are yet to discover. If it's route B, then it points to Plagueis, however, let's look at "route 1" in more detail...

From the Aftermath books, Palpatine could feel the presence of a Dark Side source:

The Emperor was convinced that something waited for him out there—some origin of the Force, some dark presence formed of malevolent substance. He said he could feel the waves of it radiating out now that the way was clear.

“Palpatine felt that the universe beyond the edges of our maps was where his power came from. Over the many years he, with our aid, sent men and women beyond known space. They built labs and communication stations on distant moons, asteroids, out there in the wilds. We must follow them. Retreat from the galaxy. Go out beyond the veil of stars. We must seek the source of the dark side like a man looking for a wellspring of water.”​

This sounds almost like an ancient nexus of dark energy. However, there is a juxtaposition within the bolded statement above - the Dark Side is not usually associated with a "wellspring of water". The Dark Side seeks to destroy life rather than provide. Although Dagobah is a prime exception as that was a planet with an abundance of water/life yet contained a dark energy within i.e. the cave. I think it's possible that, similar to Dagobah and Yoda, this "source" was located on Anch-To, hidden underneath the ancient First Jedi Temple that Luke sought to locate. (However, I don't know if Anch-To is located in the Unknown Regions)...

Nexus of Power

'At certain places throughout the galaxy, known as vergences, the Force is extraordinarily strong. The most renowned Jedi temples rest atop these sites. Many have been quarantined by the Empire in their quest to suppress all knowledge about the Force. Some planets are also unusually strong with the Force, such as Ilum, Dagobah, and legendary Ossus. Such planets were once centers of Jedi learning and mysticism. Now, they may conceal Force sensitive exiles, ruined temples, or caches of precious and powerful artifacts.'​

Another nexus of power that existed was the "Wellspring of Life":..

Wellspring of Life

The Wellspring of Life was one of many such nexuses of power that manifested in the depths of the galaxy. It was not marked on any star map and had no official name.

Legendary throughout the galaxy, members of the Jedi Order were not fully versed in the existence of a Wellspring during the Clone Wars. One Jedi Master, Qui-Gon Jinn, had discovered the legend shortly before his death and began to study it in depth. Believing he had found several potential locations, Jinn was cut down before he was able to venture to one. Despite this, Jinn's spirit persevered and manifested itself in dreams to Grand Master Yoda, encouraging him to pick up where he left off. During the Clone Wars, Yoda traveled to this planet and encountered the Force Priestesses.

Creations of the Living Force, they could not be removed from the Wellspring without vanishing. It was where the microscopic organisms known as midi-chlorians were born, and spread out into the galaxy. The very secret of immortality lie within the vergence, and were inexplicably tied to the Force Priestesses that roamed the land.​

The interesting thing about this planet was it was the birthplace of midi-chlorians (which held the secret to unlocking immortality). Maybe like the Jedi and Yoda, Snoke learnt the power of immortality from the "source" Palpatine sought after.

Force Priestesses

The Force Priestesses were five beings that resided on the Wellspring of Life, the home of the midi-chlorians. The priestesses were representative of the connection between the Living Force as experienced by living beings, and the Cosmic Force in its role in the greater scheme of the universe. They knew the secret to transforming into a Force spirit.

Though installments from The Lost Missions of Star Wars: The Clone Wars indicated that Qui-Gon Jinn had learned from the Force Priestesses and directing Kenobi to them as well, canon material from the official Databank and the now-defunct Encyclopedia on StarWars.com still refer to Jinn as having learned from a "Shaman of the Whills," the Ancient Order of the Whills having first been referenced in the novelization of the original Star Wars film.​

In an interview with Dave Filoni he indicated the Force Priestesses may be one being who become five over a long period of time, saying "The way that I reconciled that being is actually one being. It's one ancient being separated over a time that for our perception to be able to see her, she is these many different iconic things presented to us. But she died a long, long, long time ago, she is conscious in the Force, and she has a limited ability to manifest."​

Could Snoke be something similar to the Force Priestesses or the Shaman of the Whills? An ancient entity that existed in spirit form, connected deeply to the cosmic Force, yet somehow learnt the ability to transform himself into a physical entity, albeit highly damaged? Maybe the First Jedi Temple on Anch-To is built on top of an ancient Sith burial ground/tomb that imprisons Dark Side spirits? Or maybe the Temple allows access to dark regions of the netherworld from which Snoke somehow managed to escape? Or what if the Temple is a gateway into another realm of the Force - the Star Wars equivalent of Hell?

Going back to the Aftermath books, Palpatine was desperately seeking this source.

"This one, the jakku Observatory, has its own function, It is part of the contingency "

The computers here have long been searching for a way through the storms and the black spaces. Slowly, surely, they have been putting together a map: a journey into chaos. The Empire has sent probe droids to test the computations as the computers have made them. Many never returned.​

"A journey into chaos" was a choice of words that connected with some interesting things from the EU...

Chaos

Chaos, referred to as Hell in Corellian mythology and also known as The Void, was a reputedly dark region of the Netherworld of the Force inhabited by the spirits of deceased Dark Lords of the Sith, Dark Jedi, and the spirits of all evil sentient beings who had died. In Naboo mythology, Chaos was envisioned as a dark pit kept closed by six impenetrable gates.

"Similarly, Chaos is where dead Sith Lords are believed to dwell in torment."

―Darth Plagueis

Chaos was not inescapable, however: Darth Sidious, after perishing during the Battle of Endor, had escaped Chaos with the help of Sith Spirits and Sate Pestage, and required several deceased Jedi to ensure he never escaped again. The Dark Underlord was said to have been summoned from the realm of Chaos by a Sith Acolyte during the New Sith Wars. Marka Ragnos's spirit was summoned from Chaos by Tavion Axmis and the Disciples of Ragnos, though Ragnos was summarily defeated and returned to the netherworld by Jaden Korr.
​

Was Snoke a Dark Side spirit awakened when the Empire retreated into the Unknown? If so, that would be a similar story to that of Abeloth, another with a connection to "chaos" (among a great many other things I've been discussing):

Abeloth

Also known as the Bringer of Chaos and Beloved Queen of the Stars, Abeloth was a being very powerful in the dark side of the Force. She first lived as the Servant, a mortal woman who served the powerful Ones on an unknown jungle planet over a hundred thousand years before the Battle of Yavin. In a desperate attempt to hold onto the life she so loved, she drank from the Font of Power and bathed in the Pool of Knowledge. Her actions corrupted her, transforming the Mother into the twisted, immortal entity known as Abeloth.

When Jacen Solo fell to the dark side in 40 ABY and became the Sith Lord Darth Caedus in an attempt to change the future, he unintentionally awoke Abeloth. She later managed to escape from her prison due to the destruction of Centerpoint Station during Caedus' reign. Taking advantage of the chaos the galaxy was in, she immediately sought to maximize its effect, to totally wipe out civilization. However, she was discovered and hunted down by Luke Skywalker and his son, who constantly fought her and even destroyed some of her avatars. However, her remaining avatar bodies were killed and she was then destroyed by Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt in the realm of Beyond shadows. Despite her death, Luke and the Jedi were not convinced Abeloth was dead for good and thus began searching for the planet Mortis. Luke intended to locate and obtain the same dagger used to kill The Ones decades earlier during his father's own encounter with them, to ensure that when Abeloth eventually returned, the Jedi would have a way to permanently kill her.

The Skywalkers speculated that Abeloth was the one causing the psychosis that afflicted Force-sensitives who had spent an extended amount of time in the Maw. Abeloth, meanwhile, continued to inflict her will upon more and more Jedi, in the hopes of luring those victims back to the Maw where she could consume their life energy. Around that time, Ben also suggested that the Celestials might have built the Maw and the space station Centerpoint to contain Abeloth and her power; but once Centerpoint was destroyed, Sinkhole Station had begun to fall into disrepair and Abeloth's powers had grown.​

Font of Power

The Font of Power was a nexus of dark side Force energy located on Abeloth's planet inside Abeloth's cave.

According to the Mind Walkers, it was tainted by the dark side of the Force and offered limitless power of all of the past and the future if drunk from. Both Luke Skywalker and Jacen Solo were offered the opportunity to drink from the Font of Power, and both declined.​

Remember how Snoke was considered a woman at one point? Abeloth existed in the Unknown Regions, was twisted by a Dark Side nexus, tried to lure Force Sensitives to her location, encountered Jacen (Ben?) Solo and Luke Skywalker, and wrecked havoc in the galaxy. Is it possible, like Abeloth, Snoke is an immortal, twisted by the "source", and was imprisoned within the Unknown Regions a long time ago? Did the First Order/Ben Solo/Luke allow him to escape?

Conclusion

Ok, let's wrap things up. If you've managed to read all this then you, sir or madam, are a very special person indeed!

I've talked about:

• Darth Plagueis, a wise Sith Lord obsessed with unlocking the power of immortality.
• Snoke's "ghoulish look", similar to the Hammer Horror films and Darth Sion.
• The themes of resurrection and immortality in SW.
• The ancient Sith Empire that retreated to the Unknown Regions, patiently waiting for their moment to strike once again against the Jedi and the Republic.
• Various nexuses that existed throughout the galaxy that contained 'vergances' in the Force, some of which connected the Living Force and the Cosmic Force and allowed beings to attain the power of immortality.
• Abeloth, an ancient being who gained immortality from exploiting the power of Dark Side nexuses and fought against an old Luke Skywalker and his nephew (from Legends material).

Overall, I still think including Plagueis is the best possible story. He connects to all the relevant themes in this saga and builds on them. He builds on the legacies of the Skywalkers, Vader, the Sith and the Emperor. He builds on the power and knowledge of the Dark Side. He builds on the eternal Jedi v Sith/Light v Dark battle taking it to the next level as an undead/resurrected/immortal being. All in all, I think he was the best option available, but Disney must have something near genius up their sleeve with Snoke... we shall see... we shall see...

 

http://makingstarwars.net/2017/04/details-snoke-guards-kylo-ren-star-wars-last-jedi/

So Snoke is opulent and has s**t loads of cash...wasn't Hego Damask rather well off?

 

Definitely was. The Muuns were at the center of the Intergalactic Banking, and were I believe attempting to stay neutral in the Clone Wars. I believe San Hill's dad was instrumental in setting all of this up.

 

Indeed. And so we can add similarity #99 to the list.

Zombie, tall, pale, old, wise, knowledgable, Skywalker obsessed, instructs murder of parents, desire to build Star system killing weapons, rich as f**k, theme tune...etc etc etc

 

Except for the fact that only one point you've mentioned - music, which isn't even that similar, still holds up. The rest of the points come straight from Legends and people who subscribe to the Plagues is Snoke theory seem to be very picky in terms of which details they pick from Legends and which they not.

 

Where it comes from is irrelevant. Snokes character ties into so much much we once knew about Plagueis. If Snoke is Plagueis however, because the canon was thrown out, it matters not what his actual species was for instance. Clearly though, the similarities are extensive.

 

Yes Plagueis was wealthy, but the rest of Snoke's description from that article doesn't really sound anything like Plagueis.

Spoiler

I wonder if the "Black kyber crystal ring" is in fact the source of the Dark Side? Could this be the "malevolent substance" powering Snoke?

Also, Plagueis' wealth was significantly tied to his background as a Muun. He was able to manipulate the Banking Clan in large part due to his father's, Caar Damask, connection with the IBC. If Plagueis is no longer a Muun, then a massive part of his backstory will have to be rewritten.

Also, wouldn't Sidious, after believing he killed Plagueis and after gaining control of the IBC, most likely "inherited" the massive wealth of Plagueis and used this to fund the Empire? I doubt Sidious would let his old master's serious fortune go to waste. Wookiepedia has this to say about Damask Holdings:

Legacy​

In 32 BBY, Palpatine murdered Damask in his Coruscant penthouse. It remained unknown to the wider galaxy just what happened to Damask's substantial financial holdings, as the Banking Clan refused to release the relevant information. But given the apparent close-knit relationship between the two Sith Lords (apparent, at least, to Plagueis), it may, in retrospect, be rather confidently surmised that the considerable estate of the venerable Muun financial wizard Hego Damask was entrusted and, by precautionary measure (though perhaps via masked, convoluted, or untraceable means), delivered to Sidious—and, by default, to the dark, everlasting empire of the Sith (as was Plagueis' hope, at least, just as it ever was the millennial aspiration of past Sith Lords through ten centuries).

As the unfolding of galactic events banished ambiguities and brought a new perspicuity to the matter, it became clear for those with the eyes to see, that the political and financial gains of Plagueis' clandestine labors under the protective banner of Damask Holdings ultimately were exploited—utterly usurped—by Palpatine. After his election to the office of Supreme Chancellor, and his own self-anointing as Sith overlord (firmly locking into place his own vision for the Grand Plan, his own forecast and interpretation of the "Rule of Two"), Palpatine adeptly allocated and skillfully used Plagueis' vast assets in his gradual transformation of the Republic into the Galactic Empire.​

 

Yeah but that isn't canon anymore

Seriously though, the point is that all aspects of Snoke's character can be related to Plagueis. There's nothing that makes it impossible but rather seem more and more likely. Look, I've invested so much time on this I'm going to stick with it until the end!

 

I've written too many ridiculously long posts during my time here to abandon it too...



Something tells me I'll need serious professional counselling when this is all said and done or I'll be telling my grandchildren decades from now about what should've been! I 100% blame this t-shirt for my entrenched and unshakable "Snoke is Plagueis" desire:

 

Spoiler: Snoke's guards

Things get weirder when it comes to the new “Praetorian Guards” of which there are six to eight of them. I’m not sure if they’re actually called “Praetorian Guards” or if that is their placeholder name because of the similarity to the Roman Imperial Guards. These guys are a new spin on the Royal Guards that Emperor Palpatine used. They have glossy red armor, shell plating, and matte red cloth elements for the capes and such. The old guards had that black visor that defined them but these new guys have a much different head shape. These new guards all have different helmets but they don’t have visors to the best of my knowledge. The helmets are lot like the far out designs they came up with for Kylo Ren in Star Wars: The Force Awakens where it was sort of a medieval helmet with upward facing shields with no eye holes. It is such a strange design. The helmets are just solid red face shields to put it bluntly. I have no idea how most of them see anything. They’re faceless red guards in red armor with red capes and martial arts weapons. The new helmets do not take any design cues from the classic Royal Guards in look or shape.

The interesting thing about the “Praetorian Guards” is they all have different weapons. Pretty much all of the Ninja Turtles are represented. For instance, one has a staff but with two blades on each end. One uses nunchucks. One uses a sword and I think one has some kind of throwing weapon and knives. There are more weapons but I’m not entirely sure what the rest of the break down is for them. These guys are in Snoke’s opulent dwelling and they’re his personal elite guard. I have been told these guys will have an action sequence in the film and they do actually do “something” so we shouldn’t be disappointed by them.

I’m not entirely convinced the black knights that show up on Ahch-To are “The Knights of Ren” anymore and I do wonder if they’re related to the “Praetorian Guards” or if they’re lesser versions of these elite guards. It is weird that there are other melee based guys in knight type outfits and they’re not the Knights of Ren. Maybe the Knights of Ren are simply Kylo’s unit of elite warriors and aren’t that special in the big scope of things? It would seem the Praetorian Guards would be above the Knights of Ren in this context.

= http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sun_Guard

It's Plagueis. I'm 99%.

 

Dun na na...

It's Plagueis.

If its not, then it's a character based off Plagueis.

But rather, I am 99% sure it Plagueis.

Too much coincidence, too many simularities.

If you say its not Plagueis because he is not a Muun, I say: So your telling me a Dark Lord of the Sith so powerful enough to create life couldn't transmute or become biologically reconfigured at some point? The Muun point is a bad point, and doesn't rule out the fact it is not Plagueis.

Also its my professional opinion Disney is so desperate to keep this under wraps flat out lies are in order "No.. no.. certainly not Plagueis!" all the while they are eating Plagueis breakfast cereal and hiding the box.

Lets look at the facts:

Musical score - Identical with minor variations.
ComicCon - They pretty much gave it away with an interview. Tons of psychological evidence to support Plagueis.
Motives - Makes no sense to just "make up a villan" when one was readied for you in ROTS and will tie 1-9 perfectly together.

Dun na na...

It's Plagueis.

 

When it comes down to it, Snoke being...just Snoke...would be far too disappointing. Plagueis would make for a powerful and coherent saga.

 

No other option provides a means of saying: I've been behind everything that has happened. I made Vader. I trained the Emperor. I learned how to survive death itself.

Plagueis can be the uber villain without diminishing the Emperor or coming across as weak by not having got involved sooner.

He's perfect for continuing the story of Darth Vader. He's perfect for being the reason why Ben Solo turned bad. He's perfect for haunting Luke Skywalker.

If Snoke isn't Plagueis then as I have said before, it is the biggest missed opportunity in the history of Star Wars.

 

Complete the circle that is the story of Star Wars! Nothing more to add to this 600 plus page tread that hasn't been already added 550 or so pages back, many moons ago. Keep the dream alive! #Plagueis Lives

 

If Snoke is Plagueis I will eat my hat...hahahahah

 

Whilst I entirely agree with everything you say, one of the common complaints against Plagueis is that he would undermine the Emperor. At a recent fan forum, Matt Martin, a creative executive for the story group, was asked about Darth Plagueis during a podcast (question at 51:40):

Fan asks,"Do you guys believe Darth Plagueis might still be a thing...?"

Host cuts him off. "I'm pretty sure Palpatine killed him..."

Matt Martin: "Anything that undermines Palpatine I tend to step away from, but that's just my personal opinion"

Host then ends the panel and stops all further questions.
​

Sure, if not handled well, a resurrected Plagueis undermines Palpatine. But given how TFA introduced Snoke, I don't see that problem. We know Snoke is badly scarred, wounded and vulnerable. So how did he manage to receive that much damage if he hasn't been involved with this saga so far? Surely Snoke's injuries undermine his character do they not? Was it some random Force user who did that to him? Why introduce a severely injured character to succeed the Emperor? Why was that important? If the cause of Snoke's injuries isn't significant, then doesn't this risk undermining the entire story? And if it wasn't the Emperor, then it will require a lot more exposition to create a credible reason to explain his injuries that probably won't ever be as good.