Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

I am aware some people think Plagueis idea for Snoke is bad,headed by Pablo Hidalgo.

I am just claiming that from now on, despite what ever Pablo said, if Rian Johnson wanted Plagueis as Snoke, he could put it, however unlikely.

--- Double Post Merged, May 30, 2017, Original Post Date: May 30, 2017 ---

If the words of Palpatine in the film worh as much,and they do, than they worth in entirety..

--Plagueis didn't told Palpatine everything he knew- canon.

 

I don't think it matters how many times Pablo says he is dead, it is still going to be twisted as to how Snoke can be Plaguies.

I think the intent of his statement was the next sequel did not have any predefined rules set forth by JJ or Kathleen as to story direction. He could take the story in any direction he needed. However, he does have to follow the "given" rules already set by the previous movies which are now cannon. To be honest, I would think any director would want to come up with their own ideas for the direction of the characters and story, not go off a less than two-minute line and then contradict what was stated in that line.

 

I do not agree with mr. Pablo Hidalgo (whom I do respect) on a pure intellectual level of his argument, he does have the position of arbitrary but I do not agree with Hidalgo's arbitrary opinion that Plagueis absolute death is defined in the Film, upon which people repeat like it is the fact. Arbitrary decision by Hidalgo is the fact, intellectual argument does not hold.

He can repeat it million times, I do not agree intelectually.I can (and must) accept arbitrary decision , but not intellectual argument.

In the episode III Palpatine tells to Anaking story that Plagueis, who acheived knowledge to create life and save others from death, has told his apprentice everything he knew, than his apprentice killed him.-canon

From the novel Tarkin, canon ,we have confirmation Plagueis was master of Palpatine, so Palpatine is this apprentice.

I the episode III in another scene Palpatine tells he and Vader must seek the truth to repeat what only One (Plagueis) has acheived, to cheat death.

If Plagueis told him everything, there will be no need to discover what should have been told to him already. So Plagueis didn't told absolutely all subtleties of his knowledge to Palpatine.
The door left open by Lucas.

The canon is thus: Palpatine was sure he killed Plagueis, after beleiving Plagueis told him everything he knew, but at the end in the same movie Palpatine admits that Plagueis didn't told him fine subtleties of his knowledge, but believes he and Vader will discover the truth together .

If Palpatine learned everything from his teacher, there will be no need for discovering what his teacher has already acheived .. And we are dealing with not just any kind of knowledge, but knowledge about cheating death, with the ultimate goal of immortality.

Plagueis is left unresolved, righ there, in the film, in the canon.

 

DP can and should be brought back for the future. Lucas left them bread crumbs for success. When DP died he held his consciousness with the Force to allow him to reanimate himself or potentially animate another body. His goal would be to posses some other being that has many mediclorians so he won't have to use every bit of Force power he can muster just to animate a body. He would of course wish to be able to also use the Force for additional purposes.

Thing is, his body is dead. Sideous killed DP and took the reign as The master Sith Lord. The remaining conscious of the being that was DP would no longer hold that title or position. He would probably be to weak to even challenge any Force user much less Sideous unless he can find a body, like Anakin, Luke, Leia or Kylo to posses. With a very Force powerful vassal body DP would become more powerful and be able to animate himself AND use other Force powers.

In my story he would be Snoke. Maybe his own old body or some other body. The body he is in only Force strong enough to allow him to animate himself but otherwise no Force power. Snoke want to lave the damage weak body he is in for a stronger one like Rey, or Kylo Ren.

DP should live even if not in this trilogy and since there are no other Sith, he can be Darth Plaguies once again.

 

I totally understand what you are getting at, however, anything past what was stated in the movie and in canon books is just speculation and wishful thinking. At the end of ROTS, it is just as equally as likely that Palpatine was just a lying sack of sith playing on Anakin's fears of loss for loved ones, telling him what he needed to hear for manipulation so he would join him when the time came.

As far as Pablo, well, whether are not you agree with him, he is a Lucas Film employee working with the story group. He is more knowledgeable about what is going on in the present and with past intentions. If he says Plaguies is dead as stated in ROTS, then it's kind hard to argue with him even though you may not like what he says. At least until something concrete and in cannon comes out that contradicts what he has said. I don't work there so I can't refute what he has said. I do believe he has even said Plaguies was never in Lucas' treatments for the sequel. So while Plaguies may seem left unresolved, he doesn't look to have ever been part of this trilogy. Could he have been if they had chosen, sure I guess could have retracted what was stated on film but it doesn't seem that way.

 

I understand Hidalgo and even am gratefull for his effort to in fact save us from delusion that Snoke is certainly Plagueis.
I am unfortunate, however because of the way Pablo trashed Plagueis theory like it is a myst based upon wrong understanding and Star Wars iliteracy, carried by mindles fanatics which deserve making jokes , which wasn't fair. People were persistant because they loved Plagueis story, and were carried by the power of the idea itself, not because they are twisted, or stupid, or even mean and want to spam poor Hidalgo with Plagueis whatabouts. People simply loved Plagueis theory (and would love Plagueis as Snoke).

They could make perfect Snoke out of Plagueis no doubt, they decided not to, probabaly even didn't considered .

Let's hope one day Snoke will be numbered amongst successful Star Wars characters.

 

Not sure how Pablo did this by finally answering the question many asked (a couple times I believe), even if it wasn't the answer they wanted to hear, but OK.

I think Snoke will turn out to be a successful character for most. Probably for much more if the preconceived notions and Ideas on what the character should be could be let go.

 

From recent interviews, if RJ did not define Snoke in TLJ then it will be up to the CT to decide who and what is Snoke.

 

...they have no story set jet,but have a "set of rules" to not use one particular character for Snoke which they not know even how to pronounce the name of this character which breaks the rule if used for Snoke...."

"Darth Veg..Vegas, was it Vegius???"

 

I totally agree. I think it can even be extended to remarks against Pablo also. All because what is being told by those in the know go against a certain theory... which was just one theory out of many....

 

Problem is Plagueis, the idea about him been Snoke is so well rounded ,elegant, captivating and powerfull. That is the problem. Of all of us. Fans and Hidalgo. Because its Lucas signature behind.

Claiming Plagueis theory is just one of many theories contradicts the scope of the problem that is revolving about and around that theory for years(yes it is now lasting for years), , claim of ...just one of many.theories, contradicts even existance of biggest thread in this Forum ( this one).

Plagueis theory is best Snoke theory there is and ever will be, that is the fact. Other fact is, obviously, that Snoke isn't Plagueis, which has nothing to do with the quality of the theory becuse it was arbitrary decision. This however is the cause and explanation of the conflict we withnessed and still are withnessing around ..just one of many theories....

 

I am just currious, of all those guys who work on this large project of new Star Wars, JJ, RJ, CT, Hidalgo, Kennedy,others,---did anyone of them, at least for a brief moment, thought..what if this " repetitive posts and a very vocal minority" are in fact a statistic sample of our fans and our public that cares who Snoke is? Others even don't need ot have special Snoke, those people do. Why not?

 

So what you are saying is the Plaguies theory is the only Snoke theory? My point was it is just one theory of many I believe... even you have posed other theories.

This statement in and of itself is an opinion based on "is best Snoke theory there is and ever will be".

Well, honestly, with their vast resources and creative team, I'm guessing they don't pay a lot of attention to these "repetitive posts and a ver vocal minority"... and I don't think their intent is to create a movie based on and for these posts and minority. While there are plenty and vocal Plaguies fans which is totally fine, but it certainly doesn't speak for the Star Wars Fan base as a whole. There are making movies for the whole.

 

I experimented with many theories myself, only to find, that any other theory I can imagine is an excuse compared to Snoke - Plagueis.
There are other options that can pass, I can say that, but unfortunately I always come back to Plagueis, its supreme, optimal, best rounded, and rooted..

Reading Aftermath: Empires' end ,, about Snoke influencing Ben while still been a fetus, in fact, in the moment Lea felt the fetus became alive in her for the first time!?, that grip she felt on her throat, and in her womb...damn people I sough him...old,damaged, above anything Sith(and Jedi) ever imagined can be acheived, wise and reserved, using alchemy of dark and a light side to manipulate Life, aiming Skywalkers...
damn...

 

My ultimate finding is this.
Best Snoke will be Snoke with back story, one that will be about evolution of a character, about his rise, his transcendence over his previous himself. This kind of Snoke beats any unknown powerful darksider ,even a dark side essence or supreme being.

Snoke that is result of an evolution of previous character, rather than Snoke the found dinosaur.

Just like we have Luke that is evolving above Jedi, which is a great thing, Snoke that became what he is now trough fight and evolution of himself will be ultimate Snoke. Unbeatable.

Plagueis, who cheated his own death. Plagueis who found the secret of immortality by his alchemy of dark and light side, by this transcending every Sith, becaming no more a Sith by this already.Plagueis who escaped into Unknown regions using same portal on Jakku ( finding recorded in his droid 11-4D obtained by Palpatine who was after him). Plagues whose real name no one knows in the entire galaxy now, but looks to everyone as a Sith No One Know Existed...that is still and despite all the ultimate Snoke I can imagine.(tears).

 

While it would be nice to learn more about Snoke's backstory, I don't really think you will learn a whole lot in this trilogy other than some basics. I don't think he is a central character for them to delve into it. Its more about the OT characters and the new central characters (Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo). I think Snoke will be left to be fleshed out in novels. If compared to the OT, we learned very little about the Emperor by the end of it other than he was the Emperor and Vader's master. That was completely ok and the OT came out fine without knowing his back story. He wasn't a central character. We may learn a little more about Snoke in the ST compared to the Emperor but I don't think it is going to be as in-depth as some want.

 

I can agree with that.

Perhaps, in a light of recent information that Disney's plan is to deliver 15 Star Wars films that means they could have left in depth development of Snoke's back-story for some other occasion.

At some point though, such powerfull figure certainly deserves its biography.

 

You know...that may be (unfortunately) the biggest nail in the Snoke-is-Plagueis coffin. All the clues from TFA (music, character appearance, and other hints) point to things that would have been pre-planned. But if Snoke hasn't been planned, then Snoke is...I hate to suggest it...just Snoke.