Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

...but then again...I bet a thousand credits that Jakku was actually Tatooine...

But if it looks like a Plagueis, acts like a Plagueis, and cheats death like a Plagueis...It's probably a Plagueis.

Unless they change the name to act like it's different. A la Hosnian Prime ISN'T Coruscant Jakku ISN'T Tatooine SKB ISN'T DS The FO isn't the Empire

I'll be disappointed if Snoke is just a reskin/rename of Plaggy.

 

The Plagueis thread. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy...

Count me in too, guys! (I know it's like really unlikely, but we still don't know his species so I won't rule it out!)

I'll be disappointed if Snoke is just a reskin/rename of the Emperor and nothing more.

When watching the new TLJ trailer, the "fulfill your destiny" line drew yet more parallels. They're both very similar in my eyes. At this point, I feel Snoke is just a recycled version of him. He doesn't come across yet as something we haven't seen before. Hopefully we'll learn something that genuinely separates them apart, but there are some concepts intended for the Emperor that seem to have found their way onto Snoke. Mainly:

• His injuries
  • "The main character and arch villain was intended to be a Methusaleh figure, kept alive and intact by some unknown magic" Tippett would write. " Our intention was to create through make up an age-wrinkled face with a split cranium that was beginning to grow apart. We felt the Emperor should be ancient, not old, so the quality of the wrinkle was important." Phil Tippett, Visual Effects
• His large hologram (even a TFA concept design matches unused concept designs for the Emperor)
  • 
  • 
• His musical theme (similar to Palpatine's teachings)
• The First Order
• The seduction of Kylo Ren.
• Starkiller Base
  • "It won’t be long before the Death Star is completely operational, then we will easily be able to destroy a planet or an entire system… possibly even a sun." Admiral Motti, The Adventures of Luke Starkiller
• His red guards.
• His "cloth-of-gold" robe
  • 
• Snoke's throne
  • 
    
  • 

So not much is exactly new with him so far. The recycling of old ideas has got me asking myself, "Is there is a narrative reason that explains the parallels between Snoke and the Emperor?" They seem to fulfill the same purpose in the story, and they use similar methods to obtain similar goals.

From the Plagueis angle, the parallels would make sense. After all, Plagueis would essentially be a recycled Emperor. He was the Emperor's former master, he taught him everything he knew, so it would make sense to draw connections between them in that case.

If Snoke is brand new however, then why didn't the creators create something different (like the Yuuzhan Vong or Abeloth for instance), instead of falling back on old ideas? All we have atm is a mysterious, decrepit baddie who lured a young Jedi to the Dark side and who wants Skywalker, the Jedi and the Republic destroyed. But we've already seen that story. I would like Snoke take the story in a new direction, making him a credible villain in his own right. If he was Plagueis, then overcoming death would put him on par with Jedi Force ghosts, a power the Emperor could not achieve. That's a new take on the Force but also builds on the immortality theme that's been prevalent throughout SW medium since the beginning. But if he's not Plagueis, then what separates him?

Possibly what makes Snoke different could involve his black ring. It would be very interesting if the speculation about the ring containing a very powerful crystal amplifying Snoke's connection to the Force is true.

Starkiller Base is an example of a weapon containing powerful crystals that Snoke has benefited from, "Starkiller Base was a mobile, forested iceplanet rich in kyber crystals that was located in the Unknown Regions." I would further speculate that the Emperor detected the presence of Snoke's crystals.

From Aftermath, Palpatine began receiving a signal from the Unknown Regions, something only he could feel. Not even his apprentice, Darth Vader, had the power to sense it. Palpatine became convinced that something out there was calling to him from the deep unknown. Maybe it could be the origin of the Force, or some darker malevolent substance. The Emperor wanted to take an expedition to the coordinates, but was killed before he could make the journey. Palpatine was not the only being to receive visions of the dark side, as the book revealed that every member of the group known as the Acolytes of the Beyond began having dreams and visions of Sith, both ancient and recent. (source)

The interesting thing about the Acolytes of the Beyond receiving visions of the Sith is that there are a few hints that point towards them becoming the Knights of Ren. An exact quote from Aftermath is, "He [Remi] received the visions of the darkness: dreams of Sith, both ancient and recently living, plaguing his nights." Also from Aftermath, the leader of the Acolytes of the Beyond, Yupe Tashu, once said, "The Sith are masters of deception. It is no cowardice to hide in the shadows and strike when your enemy passes."​

Kyber crystals match the description of the signal the Emperor detected: The crystals:

• Grew in nature and were found on scattered planets across the galaxy.
  
• Were used by both the Jedi and the Sith dating back to ancient times.
• Exhibited a sort of "collective consciousness", veering on the edge of sentience, and could non-verbally communicate with both one another and living beings. (source)

If Snoke isn't Plagueis then I don't want a lot of parallels with the Emperor, so I'm hoping in that case the introduction of Snoke's crystal ring will begin to set him apart. Either way, I have faith in TLJ and kyber-crystals would be cool in my book!

 

He’s out of the closet and absolutely smashing it! Good to see you @Fuzzball

#confirmingplagueissince2015

 

Lets get to page 1000!! I've been on this team since page 1. #plagueis rules

 

Although Rian Johnson previously said Snoke's backstory won't be detailed at length in The Last Jedi, Serkis confirmed that he himself has the skinny on the character's past: "Oh yeah, absolutely I know it."

And soon we’ll all know the truth. PLAGUEIS LIVES.

 

You're mistaken. Serkis has never said that. Why would he? He's playing the man!

 

Just playing devil's advocate - in this article there's no direct quote from Serkis where he states Snoke is not Plagueis, although if there was one people would still be saying it's some kind of misdirection.

 

This was pulled apart at around page 322, Rieekan.

 

lol @ the haters. Clueless and making up
quotes. I expected better from some, although after reading Jason Wards comments on certain individuals on Twitter recently, I’m not entirely surprised by these dirty tactics.

Try again fellas.

 

I think it would be a cool twist if Snoke turned out to be Plagueis.

 

Twist?

 

Imagine a flashback scene with Ian Mcdiarmid and Andy Serkis

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2017 ---

Wasn't there a line in the novelisation where smoke says to kylo ren "palpatine had Vader, I have you' ?

I'm sure I read it online somewhere, cant find it now

 

For those of you who go by Pablo’s every word, allow me to clarify:

Snoke=Plagueis isn’t canon, as the film hasn’t been released yet. Wait until VIII! #PlagueisConfirmed

See you all in December for either another HUGE hint of Snoke’s true identity, or an outright #PLAGUEISCONFIRMED

 

How would you have it @Pomojema ? I’d love to hear how Snoke fits into this story without being a tacked on big bad, and not a rip off of Plagueis in everything but name.

Pablo can deny it all he likes, as in current canon, Snoke is not Plagueis. However, he could very well be Plagueis come December. The fact that most of the Plagueis haters use Pablos tweets as confirmation that Snoke isn’t Plagueis is laughable!

Imagine this is the time between ANH and ESB, and everyone is asking Pablo "is Anakin Skywalker Darth Vader?" He would answer: "In the movie Obi-Wan said that Darth Vader killed Anakin Skywalker".


Stop living in denial and rejoin Team Plagueis. You know you want to....

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 17, 2017 ---

 

The actual lines are:

Ren straightened. “It is your teachings that make me strong, Supreme Leader.”​

Snoke demurred. “It is far more than that. It is where you are from. What you are made of. The dark side–and the light. The finest sculptor cannot fashion a masterpiece from poor materials. He must have something pure, something strong, something unbreakable, with which to work. I have–you.” He paused, reminiscing.
​

It's interesting that despite Snoke mentioning Kylo's made of both the dark and the light, Kylo seeks to eradicate the light completely. There are no signs Kylo or Snoke want to use the light, to the point Kylo is in fear Snoke will detect it. Snoke even points out compassion as his weakness.

What I interpret from Snoke's lines, apart from building up Kylo's ego, is that he's aware of the powerful Skywalker lineage as the source of Kylo's raw natural strength, which has been derived from both the dark (Vader) and the light (Leia, Luke).

I wonder if Snoke believes Kylo to be a vergence/nexus point in the Force, kind-of-like how Qui-Gon viewed Anakin?