Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

tenuously...

 

You know what if Plagueis/Snoke somehow managed to influence Luke briefly at that precise moment, turning him into a catalyst for Ben's fall to the dark side.
That idea and that he somehow had foreseen everything that happened in the throne room and that he is still alive would definitely redeem this movie in so many aspects for me at least.

 

Only if he is Snoke.

I don’t think the theory is dead. It still makes a whole heap of sense and hasn’t been contradicted. It’s unlikely. But then I always back the underdog!

 

Pablo doesn’t spoil anything that the KLM’s haven’t shown. If the films or canon haven’t told us that DO is Snoke then Pablo goes with the line that he isn’t.

Anything can happen if it hasn’t been contradicted on screen.

 

"But then I always back the underdog!" *

* excepting Rey Solo

honestly though, how inept must Plagz be at this point? not only did Sidious knock him out for, what, 50+ years? but he's killed once again by yet another apprentice! TLJ had some hammy moments, but wow, that would really take the cake!

 

I was really excited about this possibility which is why I started following this site.

But now

Please don't bring Plagueis back to fix this dumpster fire called TLJ.

 

Help us Darth Plagueis, you're our only hope lol

 

If Snoke is never explained, does that mean he can be whoever we want him to be?

#PlagueisConfirmed

 

I think that JJ might go with the Plagueis idea - especially if he didn't plan on Johnson taking him out.
JJ might've had a scene prepared where Snoke reveals who he is and where he came from, but that is out the window now.
It wouldn't make sense for anyone else to bother explaining who he was.
But if someone, say Anakin, appeared and said: "Oh he's Plagueis, that's why he was obsessed with our bloodline and the Dark Side is the reason our family has cursed the galaxy for X amount of years", then that'd explain everything in one shot, be relevant to the current plot and story and satisfy a lot of fans who got butthurt at the so called surprising reveals in TLJ.

Come on JJ...do this one thing for me and I will never slag off TFA again!

 

Yeah, I agree entirely. But I guess the point still stands - especially now that JJ is directing IX and isn’t just Exec Producer. He has to figure out the story. It could be that he leaves Snoke to the other canon sources to deal with. Though I do wonder if he might think it wiser to explain something and give us a reveal that a lot of us wanted. A bit of wish fulfilment here and there, if it serves the story, wouldn’t be a bad thing! I think this would work as it would add to the Kylo Ren/Vader story and not just be a side story that doesn’t actually need explaining (Newbie Snoke from the UR is irrelevant).

I don’t know...I just get the feeling that this “dead” theory might have found a way to cheat death after all...

 

So it turns out after following this thread as an ardent Plagueis supporter for a couple years that Snoke wasn't Plagueis after all.

Well, that kinda sucks.

Dare I say Snoke's character turned out to be rather half-baked in the end up?

Get it?...
A HALF-baked character. Snoke was chopped in HALF!
HAHAHA!
Get it?...



FML.

Luke is Plagueis confirmed!

Yay! Everyone gets to be happy!

And at least we know who Rian thought he was:

“It would have stopped any of these scenes dead cold if [Snoke] had stopped and given a 30-second speech about how he’s Darth Plagueis,” Johnson said. “It doesn’t matter to Rey. If he had done that, Rey would have blinked and said, ‘Who?’ And the scene would have gone on... and I’m not saying he’s Darth Plagueis!”
​

Well Rian, since you brought up that Snoke was DARTH FRICKIN' PLAGUEIS yourself, I guess I'll just stick with that.

Rian said it's up to JJ to explain Snoke's origins in Episode 9 if he wants to.

But, oh boy, I'd seriously love to have Anakin show up in the final movie. It'd be far too epic. The problem is I think Disney are scared to bring back Force ghost characters like Anakin or Obi-Wan.

My fanboy wet-dream would be to have Luke and Anakin unite as Force ghosts to take down the ghost of Snoke/Plagueis. It's never going to happen. Never. But the awesomeness of such an encounter excites my foolish imagination far too much. Imagine Snoke explaining to Anakin and Luke how he created their power and how he's Plagueis. Yes, Rey didn't know who Plagueis was and such a scene wasn't going to work as Rian pointed out, but with Anakin it would certainly make sense. Plus, Snoke makes it clear how much he admires Vader and the Skywalker bloodline in TLJ. In truth, Vader was Snoke's true prized possession, not Kylo, so that's another reason to have them meet.

Now, people say that we can't have dark side ghosts, but it was definitely considered in concept art. Plus, Rian was interested in the possibility when asked about them:

“[Dark side Force ghosts] would be really interesting considering the dark side is about self-preservation, trying to find immortality, and the notion that the light side actually got to it through selflessness, what would the dark side version of that look like? There's so much cool [stuff] to think about if you're willing to open your head a little bit!".
​

My idea of a dark side ghost would be that they can inhabit both the spiritual and physical realm like the Jedi ghosts can, but more so as a demonic entity rather than some sort of Jedi-like angel. However, the twist would be that dark side ghosts must control a physical vessel (either through resurrection/possession) to return to the physical realm. That way a dark sider can actually stay within the physical realm much longer than the Jedi's Force projection technique seemingly can, plus a dark side ghost is only truly defeated in the spiritual realm.

So what if the Snoke we saw so far was already technically dead and was merely hosting his spirit within his old dead body through resurrection? That way Sidious did actually kill his former master like Kylo did, but now Snoke seeks to return in the last episode of the saga in a fresher and even more powerful body. It's up to Kylo to work together with Rey and the Jedi ghosts to defeat Snoke once and for all. (I can't believe I'm still making daft Plagueis theories even now).

The Art of Star Wars: The Last Jedi revealed that the universe’s spirit realm may not be as exclusive to the good guys as we thought. It would seem that at some point during production, an actual Sith Force Ghost was on the table. Judging from the artwork below, plans were in place for Luke to be visited by a distinctly evil looking being.



The caption provided in The Art of The Last Jedi:

"We’ve seen dead Jedi come back as blue ghosts. Maybe Sith can come back. And maybe there’s some all powerful Sith that’s controlling whatever the dark side is. We did talk a lot about how the final battle frontier for Jedi might be in the spirit realm. So you have to have a bad-guy ghost."​

A "final battle" between light and dark side ghosts in the spiritual realm would an epic conclusion to this saga's story. Ghosts and immortality have been a constant theme/motif throughout all three trilogies so far and what better way to have a "bad-guy ghost" other than Snoke. And what better way to unite all three trilogies than to have Force ghost Plagueis killed off by Force ghost Anakin. I would envisage Anakin, Luke and Yoda teaming up to take down Snoke's spiritual form, Kylo and Rey forced to work together to take down Snoke's physical form, whilst Poe/Finn/Rose/Chewbacca all work together to take down the First Order.

Do I think that will actually happen? HELL NO! If Snoke was making a comeback as some sort of well-thoughtout plan by Rian and JJ, I think they would've teased it in TLJ (more so than Snoke's rather comical and vague monologue as he's about to betrayed). Snoke coming back from the dead would simply be way too big a deal for a character that was meant as nothing more than an Emperor-like plot device.

 

Doesn't Kylo say something along the lines of " Luke Skywalker, Snoke, The Jedi and the Sith"?

I mean aren't the Sith already dead?

This coupled with Ben claiming the supreme leader to be 'wise'.

GL wanted DP to be the ST villain and I think Disneys plan has always been to follow through with that....

 

GL said he wanted DP to be the ST villain? first i've heard of it! any citations or sources you'd like to share?

calling people wise is pretty irrelevant. using that logic Yoda could be DP since he's called wise somewhere in the series.

 

No, Pablo says the opposite, that Plagueis was not in the GL treatments.

 

my point exactly

 

Alright maybe I misspoke a bit, I don't mean to state it as an definitive thing.
I can't find the video atm (still looking) but I swear there's a video of George being interviewed on the set of ethier ESB or ROTJ where he talks about concepts he had in mind for the sequel trilogy villain.

I remember him taking about how he wanted the villain to be an individual that had been around since the beginning (as in the PT era). I remember he used words like puppet master to describe this individual.

He talked about how Palpatine would have been totally unawares of this 'puppet master' believing that he himself was in complete control of the will of the force when in actuality this other individual was watching and manipulating events from the shadows.

Fast forward to ROTS and we get the opera scene....I mean even at 7 years old I remember immediately catching on to the irony of palpatines 'ironic' line and assuming that the point of the scene was to finally explain where Anakin came from whilst at the same time setting up the next villain.

Then we get James Lucenos DP novel. In it he has palpatine fear the return of Darth Plagueis only to brush it off the disturbances in the dark side as a residual effect of Darth Mauls death.

Now what's interesting is that JL talks about how he had direct communication with GLs then right hand Howard Roffman, rather than having to go through Del Rey (the starwars novel publishing company). Here's the quote:

George was involved in the early stages. When the book was first proposed, I wrote to him and asked whether there was any reason why Plagueis couldn't be a non-human, and he wrote back that Plagueis could be a Muun and sent me some artist renderings of the character. From that point on, everything was approved, as they're saying, ?at the highest level.? I worked most closely with George's right-hand man at Lucas licensing, Howard Roffman. It was a strange way to go about the book, because I kind of had to bypass both Del Rey and the usual editorial staff at Lucasfilm and work directly with Howard over the course of what amounted to about a year of preparation.

I submitted many, many versions of the outline until we finally reached consensus on where we wanted to go with the book. The marketing text about ?this is canon at the highest level? ? I suppose that's true, that a lot of the stuff came from the very top levels of Lucasfilm. Everything was approved at that high level. I had to make the assumption that Howard was speaking directly with George about a lot of this stuff. I didn't have any meetings directly with George, but it seemed like a lot of the approval was coming through him to Howard. I was not privy to all of the things that happened behind the scenes.

Calling a respected mentor 'wise' is one thing but in this context? Again didn't JJ try to claim Ren wasn't a Sith? I think it's safe to say the KOR aren't some new order rather they are simply....the Knights of Kylo Ren. They're glorified inquisitors.

Again why mention Snoke and the Sith in the same breath? Personally I take JJs words as a bit of a play on words. Ren wasn't a true sith because he hadnt proven himself...

JJ said that Kylo wasn't a Sith and that he worked under Snoke...who himself was a newly introduced character....well was he wrong? No, we've never seen DP on screen.

All I'm saying is that I don't expect anyone to come out and preemptively reveal Snokes origins before the films have a chance to do it themselves. I'd be open to something different, but nothing I've been shown so far has contradicted the involvement of DP, on the contrary the signs keep piling up....

Edit: Spelling