Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

.....temptation.

EDIT--

The question of return of Snoke is linked with question is he Plagueis.

If Snoke is Plagueis we are instanteniosly put on a logical train ...

train...

that leads to fact...

Palpatine was sure he killed him to.

ah, young Plagueis thread, missed you have I.​

 

Yeah, it's a crazy theory, but that is one of the things that I think best supports it.

 

In the novel TLJ Snoke says he was underestimated many times..

Although I believe he now finally passed away, whoever he was.

( ReyLo steam roller....)

 

Well, if they hadn't made Snoke out to be this powerful overseer begging for his backstory to be revealed through the dialogue, through social media hype and antagonization, and through his very character design, it might have been less frustrating. Remember Your-Snoke-Theory-Sucks? Nothing ever came of that except negativity on all sides.

If you're going to tease the audience, there's an expectation that you follow through on it. I'm disappointed that they chose to hold back, apparently, out of greed and the assumption that they could sell the answers out in other products.

 

God that " your theory sucks" to fandom backfired in their faces painfully, they lost 700 million dollars because, amongst other, such things.

Its not that fandom is right, just...respect.

Only genius can make such jokes with audience without consequence , and they are far from that (except of course mr John Williams. ......respect .)

 

Just another piece of the puzzle coming together.....

#PlaguiesConfirmed

 

Snoke = 200 years old = Plagueis territory. to a tee, in fact. how about that...

and relevant, even though it's no longer 'canon':

'In Plagueis, at the beginning its stated that he had been apprenticed to Tenebrous for longer than most humans would live, and later in the novel that Tenebrous hadn't taken him until he was ~10. By that logic, I'd put Tenebrous to have been born around 170-200BBY.'

 

The ring illustrates yet another connection Snoke has with the Emperor and Vader.

... "made of gold and enscribed with glyphs from the Four Sages of Dwartii, and also encrusted with obsidian from Darth Vader's castle on Mustafar."​

But who were the Dwartii?

"The Four Sages of Dwartii were a group of contentious philosophers and lawgivers from the early days of the Galactic Republic, who had great influence on its early constitution. Supreme Chancellor Sheev Palpatine kept bronzium statues of the Four Sages in his office and chambers on the planet Coruscant. In an era of Sith domination, a number of bronzium statues honoring the Four Sages were made."​

Snoke's ring is the equivalent to the statues that Palpatine possessed in his office. But it's weird to me that Snoke, a non-Sith, would admire and respect aspects of the Sith's and the Republic's history, when he has supposedly no affiliation with them.

And here's a funny coincidence...

In Revenge of the Sith, there's a scene between Palpatine and Anakin where the statues of the Dwartii are on display.

​

Interestingly, this brings together the two aspects of Snoke's ring (the statues = the Dwartii, and Anakin = Lord Vader's obsidian). Two things that have clearly influenced Snoke (heck, three if you want to throw in the Emperor's influence too). But what makes this coincidence even more interesting is the topic of conversation just as this shot comes on screen - Palpatine begins to talk about his "mentor"...

PALPATINE: Let me help you to know the subtleties of the Force.
ANAKIN: How do you know the ways of the Force?
PALPATINE: My mentor taught me everything about the Force . . . even the nature of the dark side.
ANAKIN: You know the dark side?!?
PALPATINE: Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force. Be careful of the Jedi, Anakin. (pausing) They fear you. In time they will destroy you. Let me train you.
​

Wouldn't it just make perfect sense if Palpatine's former mentor was the one who taught him about the Dwartii?

"My mentor taught me everything about the Force".
​

That would explain how Sidious learnt about the Dwartii and why it would interest him. But what about Snoke? Who mentored him on the secret origins of the Sith and their history? And why make a ring in their honour?

As @McDiarmid said, James Luceno makes one of the few mentions of the Dwartii in his Plagueis novel. In turned out that Plagueis was the one who owned the statues before Siduous killed him and took them for himself.

"As if a whirlwind had swept through. And facedown on the floor lay a statue of Yanjon, one of four law-giving sages of Dwartii.
A piece Sidious had secretly coveted.
Also sprawled there, Plagueis: his slender limbs splayed and elongated head turned to one side. Dressed in finery, as for a night on the town.
And now dead.
Or was he?"
​

You're right about Plagueis. Wookieepedia estimates his birth between 120 and 147 BBY, so he'd be getting near 200 years old by the time of TLJ.

 

i honestly think Snoke's mind reading powers are being underestimated if we are to believe he was 'outsmarted'. his physical level force abilities are OP compared to Rey & Kylo, throws them around with ease. if he's that far ahead of them at a physical level and it's his mind manipulation abilities that are his real power, well...no way he's lying when he says he sees Kylo's every intention.

Serkis answer to Snoke coming back is very cagey, he says everything except the word 'sequel'. I honestly believe EpIX will have some type of spiritual plane battle going on with Snoke & Luke. Kylo also refers to Sith instead of Snoke when talking about ending the old ways along with Skywalker. bad writing?

 

If there was ever a time to confirm Plagueis, now is that time! Great work #teamplagueis.

 

i don't think the Dwartii are all that big of a deal. there are multiple scenes in RotS, including some that were cut, that take place in Palp's office where these statues are. no one ever mentions them or seems weirded out by their presence. yes, they may represent in-universe history, but they are by no means evidence for secret dark siders unknown.

 

I agree with you. The Dwartii aren't a big deal. They just represent in-universe history - early Dark side practitioners that influenced the foundations of the Republic and the Sith.

My intrigue with them however is because of Snoke's interest in them. They give an insight into his character. For a supposed alien from the Unknown Regions, it shows he's incredibly knowledgeable about the Force and the galaxy's history. On top of that, it shows that he and the Emperor both had appreciation for the same thing. So not only was Snoke influenced by what the Emperor had accomplished, what he had built and who he had trained, Snoke was also influenced by the same lore.

The other intriguing aspect of the ring is Vader's obsidian. This shows Vader's influence on Snoke and makes me believe that when Snoke says, "The mighty Kylo Ren. When I found you, I saw something truly special. The potential of your bloodline; a new Vader. Now, I fear I was mistaken.", that he had genuine reverence for Vader's power (more so than just a manipulating tool at least).

Does the ring reveal secret identities? No. My main takeaway from the ring is that it adds a layer onto Snoke's character, it reveals the influences on him, it creates more parallels between himself, the Emperor and Vader, and it increases my feeling that he had a secret admiration for the Sith, their history, power and impact.

 

references like that definitely do help to color in Snoke's character.

however, i don't think the Dwartii represented dark siders; they were just sages that were instrumental in creating the Old Republic. at least that's what Wookiepedia has to share on the matter.

 

The Plagueis we know is only from a now Legends book, but his personality does not fit with Snokes. Snoke's personality reminds me more of Joruus C'baoth's if I'm being honest. The calm & measured demeanor of Snoke in TFA had me on the fence as to whether or not he could be Plagueis. TLJ squashed that for me as Snoke was aggressive, reckless, and sort of flaunting his power I guess.

 

he seemed that way but that could have been part of the act, if he does indeed return. his character was a bit over the top and reckless yes but it contradicted what semed like next level force powers - being aware of everything else, mind bridging, long distance telekinesis, easily overpowering rey to throw her around & read her mind. especially as we get the idea she can match up to Luke...

 

Rewatching TLJ and as Snoke (AKA Plagueis) states that “he cannot be betrayed” we hear what sounds almost identical to the Emperors theme briefly.

Strange that. Or is it......

 

It's certainly ironic...

 

One of solutions is that Snoke was Plagueis and he is not dead yet, that he is now a sort of Dark side Force ghost, in fact same happened to him and Luke, because there is no true Dark or Light side.

 

They could do something quite scary with his corpse. Perhaps IX begins with Snoke’s body being disposed of and then we see it reanimating...

Would explain why Sidious thought he managed to kill him. And we’d have an established bad guy that seems pretty much invincible.

I doubt it but live in hope.

 

#plagueisconfirmed