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Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by BB-Rey, Sep 15, 2014.

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Would you like it if Darth Plagueis was the villain of the Sequel Trilogy?

  1. Yeah! He is a very interesting character!

    349 vote(s)
    42.5%
  2. No thanks, Plagueis is dead.

    188 vote(s)
    22.9%
  3. Nope! He never actually existed.

    29 vote(s)
    3.5%
  4. Yes, but he is in the movie as a corpse.

    20 vote(s)
    2.4%
  5. He will be mentioned in another "throwaway line" only.

    28 vote(s)
    3.4%
  6. He is Snoke in disguise.

    12 vote(s)
    1.5%
  7. Yes, his death was a ruse.

    92 vote(s)
    11.2%
  8. I don't care either way, brah.

    73 vote(s)
    8.9%
  9. Of course, who else would you choose?

    30 vote(s)
    3.7%
  1. Anarchist

    Anarchist Clone Commander

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    Oh come on :) He used a cane to walk down a small ramp from the transport that brought him to DS2. I think this is the case of an old timer covering another; who else walks with a cane ? Ah Mister Yoda ?

    On a serious note, argument accepted. This leaves us with the Ritual 2 problem. The only information we have about essence transfer, is that Palp seems to know how to do it, and the 1000 sith remark, which may be entangled with him coming back from the dead.
     
  2. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    The moment Eternal Palpatine spoke those words, I knew the truth. Leaving the theater I told my brother: "you know the Emperor is Darth Bane, now. Right?" We kek'd. Canon or not, his line means that EVERY Sith Apprentice was a pawn of the original Sith Master. Almost like an Anzaat.... Banite Sith absorbed the essence of the Apprentices, claiming their power and denying them the right to rule. Zannah, Cognus, Tenebrous.... 30 in a millennium, all failed. Sidious told the truth, he killed his Master's body and Plagueis couldn't save himself... but the arrogant fool also lost his own identity in the process.


    Darth Bane was the first and the last, Sith Master of his order.... I find it ironic that Bane's Sith legacy lives on in someone whose name is Rey Palpatine, but claims to be a Skywalker. Why? Because the Sith always take on a new name.
     
  3. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    If this whole "apprentice kills master and master assumes body of apprentice" thing is actually the norm, and not a one-off event, then when "Palpatine", who is actually Plagueis at this point, tells Anakin the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise, he seems awfully smug and satisfied at having killed himself. When he says, "Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.", it's dripping with condescension towards Plagueis, whom he is at that time.

    I'm not sold on the idea that this transfer from master to apprentice is a thing that has happened all along with the two Sith. When I first saw TROS I thought this was a one time event that would allow Palpatine to take over Rey. When Palpatine says that all the Sith live in him, I thought that was figuratively just like when Rey says all the Jedi are in her. There was no transfer of anything to Rey from "all the Jedi". It was more of a defiant statement.
     
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  4. Supreme Leader

    Supreme Leader Rebelscum

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    having Plagueis survive wouldn't have lessened what Palpatine said in ROTS. he had killed his master, his master had already discovered how to cheat death (just seemingly not for himself) nothing is changed by ignorance of Plagueis spirit etc living on. the seduction angle worked whether it was even a real story or not. then the biggest impact is delivered in the ST where we discover who was pulling the strings the entire time, the perfect twist that brings the saga full-circle. it only makes the overall story stronger along with new revelations about the force and it's inner-workings, a grander ambition than simply 'ruling the galaxy'. recycling the same vilian last minute or not having a proper vilian through the sequels is not how you up the stakes.
     
    #12564 Supreme Leader, Feb 13, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
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  5. Anarchist

    Anarchist Clone Commander

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    I'am not sold for practical reasons; for this to work, then it must have taken place for every pair of Sith. If for whatever reasons, you break the chain in even one case, then it's gone.

    Also, it seems hard to sell. Imagine an apprentice learning that this will take place, when he kills the master. I don't think it's very probable that he would actually go through with it. Would Palpatine kill Plagueis if he knew, he would end up being possessed ?

    You could argue, that the master won't tell him. Then how does the apprentice learn the technique, since his master didn't tell him, and he has killed him already ? Holocrons.

    Ok, so the master doesn't tell the apprentice to not discourage him, and the apprentice after murdering the master finds a holocron with the technique, and this goes on for every pair of Sith for hundreds of years, with no master dying from any other reasons, and every apprentice discovering and mastering the technique via holocrons.

    It seems impractical.
     
  6. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    Yes. I'd argue the master won't tell him, but it's not a problem because the master intends to live forever, so there's no need for the apprentice to learn the technique. As you say, if they did, then the apprentice would never try to kill the master. At least, not directly. Although they might try and kill the master by surprise when they are, say, sleeping or before they have the chance to invoke the technique.
     
  7. Anarchist

    Anarchist Clone Commander

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    Something like this ?

    The 1st one who learned it got killed and transferred to the 2nd. Let's assume that the technique is such that he carried the knowledge of hopping with him.

    A. The most logical thing for the 1st to do would be to "reveal" himself to the 2nd, and explain the hopping technique, because if the 2nd doesn't get struck down in anger by the third, there is no more hopping. He can lure him by saying: If you also get stuck down, we both hop to the 3rd.

    B. Another option, is to stay hidden and hope the 2nd will get assasinated. In this case you have only one dude hoping, the 1st, but it's more risky.

    Either way, the apprentice inherits the knowledge and previous Sith (one in B and more than one in A), without having to learn the technique from a holocron, and without the master ever saying a word about it, which would jeopardize hopping. Also it explains the 1000 Sith thing. In A, it's literally 1000, and in B it's what's the 1st one accumulated by living with 999 others, before ending up with Palpatine.
     
  8. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    But what happens if both the master and the apprentice are killed in the assassination attempt? I remember reading about a duel in Hyde Park in the 1700's wherein both participants died after sustaining grievous injuries. It was not pleasant.
    https://thebooktrap.weebly.com/anthonys-blog/duelling-with-swords-the-reality

    In such eventualities, does that knowledge die with them or is it kept by non-Sith care takers until the time that a force sensitive individual is found and recruited into the Sith?
     
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  9. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    This is the only case where I'd like for them to anchor/bond with some sort of talisman and wait however long until some force sensitive noob comes by that is ripe for the twisting. I mean hosting. Thusly, the GFFA's ultimate evil never dies.... it merely hibernates.
     
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  10. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    On the subject of anchoring and bonding, that is an interesting idea. Do you think that if enough dark side or light side place, that will imbue that place with life. Kind of in a similar way that daemons in Warhammer are formed from emotions and other psychic residue that coalescing in the warp. Or if there is a dark dimension and things that pass through into it can find themselves with certain passengers like the possessed ship from Event Horizon.
     
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  11. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    The force definitely has hotspots.... dark side locus/nexus & Light side fountain/wellspring.... so, yes.

    (See Vader's castle & Yoda's cave)
     
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  12. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Rebel Commander

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    NONONoNONonO don’t drag any legends character into this. loL
     
  13. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    Plagueis is actually now canon...he's real!
     
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  14. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Rebel Commander

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    Oooh
     
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  15. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    He was always canon. Since 2005.
     
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  16. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Force Attuned

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    He was just a 'legend' in 2005, a mythical character from an unspecified period of the past, who may or may not have even existed except in Sith folklore. So as @Trevor may have been implying, not 'real' until later stories made him canon.

    Personally I would have preferred to have seen him remain a character from Sith mythology. Leaving him and the story as a mystery is more interesting to me.
     
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  17. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    I disagree. For me the movie proves Plagueis was always real and not just a legend. First it's heavily implied that Plagueis was Palpatine's master by the help of writing and acting. Later in the movie it's further confirmed that Plageuis isn't a legend.
    => After Anakin turned to the dark side, Sidious says: "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved. But if we work together, we can discover the secret."

    A quote from the offical novel of ROTS (2005):
    "Oh, I am... rather certain... that Plagueis did indeed exist. And if someone actually had this power—well, he would indeed be one of the most powerful men in
    the galaxy, not to mention virtually immortal..."
    - Palpatine
    Why was Palps certain? Well, because he was his master after all.

    So, he was canon AND real since 2005.
     
    #12577 NinjaRen, Apr 4, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
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  18. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    Stop it Nephy, you're giving me the feels man. Created my first Plagueis sock in 2005 and seeing your post brought warm tendies to my Sith heart.
     
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