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Darth Plagueis In The Sequel Trilogy.

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by BB-Rey, Sep 15, 2014.

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Would you like it if Darth Plagueis was the villain of the Sequel Trilogy?

  1. Yeah! He is a very interesting character!

    350 vote(s)
    42.5%
  2. No thanks, Plagueis is dead.

    189 vote(s)
    23.0%
  3. Nope! He never actually existed.

    29 vote(s)
    3.5%
  4. Yes, but he is in the movie as a corpse.

    20 vote(s)
    2.4%
  5. He will be mentioned in another "throwaway line" only.

    28 vote(s)
    3.4%
  6. He is Snoke in disguise.

    12 vote(s)
    1.5%
  7. Yes, his death was a ruse.

    92 vote(s)
    11.2%
  8. I don't care either way, brah.

    73 vote(s)
    8.9%
  9. Of course, who else would you choose?

    30 vote(s)
    3.6%
  1. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel Official

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    In order to have a grander villain, we need several things to line up.

    First of all, as much as the Emperor was prepared in the prequel trilogy and had some subtle moments, I do not think that he was as great of a villain that ANH and TESB Vader was. Vader was more of a personal threat to Luke in ANH and TESB- the Emperor... impersonal in ROTJ.

    Also, the Emperor's motivation in ROTS was to have peace and to have the Sith rule the galaxy. Lucas's question (in the ROTS DVD commentary) was, "yes to have peace, but at what cost?" saying that the ends do not justify the means. If this is the ultimate motivation of the Sith, do we need a villain with a motivation who is selfish completely, without a regard for peace?

    How many connections do we want this villain to have? Most super villains (or like Holmes' Moriarty) are this impersonal bad guy who shows up at the end. You need a balance- to show how the villain is both a personal threat and impersonal.

    Also, I could be incorrect, but I seem to remember Darth Plagueis being mentioned in The Clone Wars in a Wikipedia page around 2006 or 2008. I mean the animated 2-D The Clone Wars. I still have no idea what happened to that page or where in The Clone Wars that Plagueis allegedly showed up or was mentioned.
     
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  2. Paul Dameron

    Paul Dameron Rebel General

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    Yes i hope so. But we won't have Carrie Fisher back and Harrison Ford already returned two more times then he said he would years ago. With the treatment of Mark he may not come back either :(
     
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  3. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    Honestly not going to happen unless Disney/Lucasfilm wants to commit company suicide. Logically it doesn't make sense and would be a disgrace to Carrie's final performance. How will they make it work? Their not going to get Harrison Ford or Mark back and they obviously can't get Carrie back. Tech isn't there to support a whole 2 hr long movie doing the Tarkin treatment or the flashback treatment in Episode 9. The only way something like could happen would be CGI Animation film and even then it will look out of place compare to the live action of Episode 1 through 6. This is fortunately a wet dream, no more no less.
     
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  4. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    I don't know... whatever Lucas's story idea might be, it might not necessarily have to feature the original cast at all.

    He could set it a hundred years after the events of ROTJ, and still build a story around his concept of the Whills or whatever it is he wants to do, with an all new cast of characters. No need for Carrie and Harrison and Mark.

    Anthony Daniels and Warwick Davis would probably be in it though.
     
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  5. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    Well that would be okay and i'm all or that. But that isn't what the OP and the lame rumor is claiming. George could make a future SW trilogy or another set of movies but i'm 100% certain he will not erase Episode 7 through 9. He won't disrespect Carrie final performance like that. If that's the case, then why sell the franchise in the first place? He would be back at square one with no chance on using MArk, Han or Carrie and would of just wasted Disney and everyone else's time.

    No matter how anyone slices the pie, it 1) doesn't make logical sense, 2) what does Disney/Lucasfilm have to gain? Win a certain loud part of the fandom that wasn't happy with the sequels? While at the same time alienate another part of the fandom that did like the sequels or can at least tolerate them? Disney/Lucasfilm has made some questionable decisions but their not that dumb. Once you start applying common sense logic and removing emotions out of the equation, this so called rumor doesn't hold up well.
     
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  6. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    Well he doesn't have to 'erase' them as such. They could just be Lucas's "Episodes 7, 8 and 9". They don't have to contradict Disney's 7, 8 and 9, they could just never reference them. That way, it's up to us as fans, depending on how we feel about the current SL, to accept whether they ever happened or not.

    That aside, I'm pretty sure George would at least be able to get Hamill back if he asked!

    Anyway I was just making a hypothetical point really. I agree - it's just rumour and I doubt it's going to happen.
     
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  7. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    That would confused the General Audience which are already confused about Darth Maul being in Solo. But I see your point. But yeah, it's likely not going to happen. if anything, we would likely get a book that goes in detailed about what George would of done in 7 through 9. That would be fun to read.
     
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  8. Too Bob Bit

    Too Bob Bit Jedi Commander

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    Haha.. well I'm going to disagree :p

    There would be very little for a general audience to actually be confused about. To them it's just an all new Star Wars trilogy with all new characters "set in the future". They don't have to know or care about having to decide if the Disney ST is erased from canon or not. They'll probably either just assume it did all happen or be quite happy to just accept the notion that this is an alternative sequel. It's only us geeks and nerds that get bogged down in the details!

    At the very least, I'd say it's no more confusing than all the jumping around in the timeline we've had already. Force Awakens followed by Rogue One was already confusing to some. Now we've got The Madalorian with a "Baby" Yoda in it...

    Even back in 70s/80s, there were people confused by the idea it was "Episode IV"!

    So two sets of episodes 7, 8 and 9? All par for the course in the universe of Star Wars to a general audience by now! :p
     
    #12588 Too Bob Bit, Aug 18, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
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  9. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I don't think it would be as confusing as many make it out to be. We live in a superhero saturated environment. Even with the MCU, reboots and retcons aren't too uncommon, and the MCU fan-base and the Star Wars fanbase share a decent amount of crossover (more than either would probably be willing to admit!).

    For superhero fans, it'd just be another cosmic retcon. For Star Wars fans, it'd be like what happened to the old EU (and for some, it might be seen as divine justice. But that's a conversation for another time).

    Authors, writers, and creators in the Star Wars world get a chance to create something new in a space they may now understand better (and more importantly, they get a SECOND chance to get paid for making new content about older characters*), Disney gets to retread the same ground and make money, and fans may get a chance to see something they felt was done wrong before* (again, YMMV) possibly done right - NEVER undersell the power of hope. However, hardcore fans would feel cheated, since all of that time, money, and space they invested into for the new content would not be deemed "obsolete" in terms of canon. But if the material isn't going anywhere, and you're open to new material, why bother taking the "official" canon as YOUR canon?

    For the general audience, there would be confusion, yes, but not enough to stop them from seeing it or from figuring it out later. A straight up retcon would be far easier to explain than the current X-Men timeline. And if people can wrap their heads around THAT, then they could handle a retcon.

    Besides, the debates of the Best Solo Child would be so fun to watch/read! It'd be like asking who the best live action** Bruce Wayne/Batman is, or who the best Peter Parker is.

    Now, will it happen? Absolutely not! People like Kylo Ren and Rey. But is it as complicated as people fear? Also no.

    That would be pretty cool! Weird, trippy, and probably not what some fans idealize it being, but still cool!

    *Zahn I'm looking at you! Not that I mind, BUT I'M LOOKING AT YOU!
    **You gotta specify live action, because if it's all performances, Kevin Conroy wins 100% of the time. Heck, he shows up as an older Bruce Wayne in the Crisis on Infinite Earths even on the CW DC shows, so he still might win live action!
     
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  10. Supreme Leader

    Supreme Leader Rebel Commander

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    Mark would come back, if the conditions were right.

    Harrison Ford - too expensive, waste of money.

    Carrie Fisher - RIP.

    a story would need to be written or rewritten around the latter two characters being killed off in the interim. not hard. and onward to a new exciting three episodes where we explore the grander lore behind the force, face a 'new' more powerful vilian (which also connects the saga/lore) and Luke trains a new, formidable (female) apprentice in the ways of the force. sorry to say but Rey was absolutely awful. the character and the actress, totally lacked charm, charisma, you name it.
     
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  11. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel Official

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    "a story would need to be written or rewritten around the latter two characters being killed off in the interim. not hard. and onward to a new exciting three episodes"

    Or, dark and formidable in the case of Empire. I don't know if I would call it exciting. Challenging, I think.

    From what I know of a "more, powerful villain" or learning a grander lore behind the force isn't the heart of Star Wars. - It's stopping evil and making a difference, imo.

    I analyze villains all the time, ALL THE TIME. To be honest, most villains and heroes disappoint me. Quite a lot.

    Most villains are stupid and unrelatable, which makes disliking them all that much easier- it makes them an easy target.
    To be honest, that's the easy way out, and it disappoints me.

    TESB Vader is in my top five villains/antagonists. ANH Vader isn't too shabby either. But the reason he resonates is his cunning and relatability. He does make mistakes, but he's not stupid, meaning that you can take him seriously.

    The idea of connecting lore together isn't satisfying either from my opinion. That's really hard to swallow as well, since connection is everything these days, especially in the Marvel Cinematic films.

    The Vader-Luke connection in Empire is compelling because Luke can finally get what he lost (a father, general approval, and [control] of the whole galaxy) if he agrees to Vader's offer. It's actually a well-executed, tempting offer, despite Luke getting his hand cut off, but Luke rejects it in the end because it's not the right thing, I believe. It's not a connection to a lore/the saga, so much as it is a connection [especially a personal one] to an established character and his decisions and belief system.

    "Luke trains a new, formidable (female) apprentice in the ways of the force."

    Being formidable isn't impressive- it's just exciting as a power-fantasy. Unless you were meaning a competent apprentice. And why is it necessary to be "trained in the ways of the force"? It's getting repetitive, especially from what fans want. I.e. Train new apprentice in the ways of the force- get more powerful, etc.

    The reason- being trained in the ways of the Force was exciting in ANH and TESB was the variety of HOW the Force was used in a situation, not so much of WHAT the Force can give you.

    I'm not trying to complain against fans, but it's like a checklist. Okay, we will learn this, this, this, and this. In Empire when Luke is in danger with Vader and falls into the Carbon Freezing Chamber- he wisely Force-Jumps out, and then carefully summons a lightsaber (from his experience at the beginning of the film) to combat Vader's strike (as Yoda taught him in the comics, deleted scene, and novelization). These are all skills that he learned from Yoda (and his experience from the Wampa cave), and yet, Luke had to reason to figure out when to use them.
     
    #12591 The Birdwatcher, Nov 14, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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