SPECULATION Darth Vader's Castle and the Knights of Ren

I am going with Sith splinter Cult. I have been pointing out the similar names of the old EU "One Sith" and "1stvOrder."

Snoke is a cultlike figure head of a political/religious cult like Nazi appropriation of Tentaunic knights. Snoke is "Supreme Leader" which sounds like a cult figure. The KOR are elite unique officers the Inquisitors have been given military positions.

 

But the Witches of Dathomir didn't compare with the Sith. The Sith were the top dogs, more powerful than any other Dark Side group.

But that wouldn't make sense. The Dark Side makes those that follow it consumed with anger and a lust for power. If there was any other group around more capable than the Sith then they would've made themselves know. They would've attempted to take over. This means that the Sith were the most powerful Dark Side group that existed during the time when the Jedi reigned. Snoke therefore, unless he isn't a match to the Sith (which would be disappointing story wise), must've learned something from the Sith, in some way. Sure, he's taking that in his own direction and perhaps adding to their knowledge but you don't just appear from nowhere with great Dark Side knowledge. The fact is, we didn't hear from Snoke until after the Sith were destroyed. It's likely then to me that Snoke wasn't a big player until the Sith's destruction, he then discovered some ancient Sith teachings which corrupted him and gave him the power and knowledge he has now. But as for the KoR, they clearly worship the Dark Side and thus would aspire to be as much like the Sith as they possibly could.

Wish to destroy the Jedi - CHECK
Seek to take over the galaxy - CHECK
Has extensive Dark Side knowledge - CHECK
Use red lightsabers - CHECK

Sound like the Sith to me.

I don't think Snoke or the KoR will become Sith or are Sith. But I think Kylo might take the Vader helmet and proclaim himself Darth Something-or-other.

 

We literally know nothing about the Knights of Ren except that Kylo is the name of the leader.
We also know nothing about the Guardians of the Whills, the Church of the Force, or the Acolytes of the Beyond except that these groups all have religious affiliation with the Force in some capacity. In my mind, that's all Lucasfilm wants us to know for a long time. It's just a running theme of what Lucasfilm wants to portray about the galaxy after the destruction of the Jedi Order (Both Jedi Orders specifically). People have faith being the theme. We will likely see more of this in the coming movies and that is likely a key feature to the Knights of Ren. But this is an assumption and no proof at this time.

 

Well... one way we can eliminate it is by asking... can it rain on Mustafar?

 

These are just my own speculative thoughts about the KOR:

The Knights of (Kylo) Ren are a new organisation that rose up from the ashes of Darth Vader, after Kylo joined Snoke. I agree with @master_shaitan in that the KOR most likely went by a different name in the past (Acolytes of the Beyond), but they have always been religious dark-side worshipers and Vader fanatics.

But, consider this, what if the KOR believed that Vader was their dark side Chosen One, counteracting the Jedi's belief that Anakin was the light side Chosen One?

I think the KOR have pledged allegiance to Kylo because he's the the bloodline descendant of Vader, and they believe Kylo is meant to lead them to glory and finish what Vader started.

This is going off the rails a bit, but I was thinking about the similarities between the stories of Anakin and Jesus, how Anakin was meant to bring balance to the force, but even though he fulfilled the prophecy by destroying the Sith, he didn't really bring balance. In actuality, Anakin's actions and his legacy have had a massive influencing and motivational effect for the dark side - he was only moments away from destroying the Jedi for good, which is what Snoke, Kylo and the KOR want to accomplish together. Now, Christians believe Jesus was the "Chosen One", whereas in Judaism they don't because he failed to deliver on any of their prophecies (including ending hatred, suffering, oppression, war). However, Christians also believe there will be a second coming of Jesus:

"They believe that Christ will fulfill the rest of the Messianic prophecies in the Second Coming, specifically the prophecy of a future king who would come from the Davidic line and usher in a Messianic Age and World to Come."

"[Jesus] will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. ... We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come."
(source: Wikipedia)​

So what I'm thinking is that Kylo Ren, a descendant from the son of the Force, coming from the line of Vader, is the KOR's anointed "second coming of Vader", who will bring balance to the force and usher in a new dark side age for the galaxy, free from both the Jedi and the Sith.

 

"People have faith being the theme." My question is, to what end?

It's an interesting assumption/theory. It certainly seems like the story group is going to great lengths to expand the mythology by introducing new and opposing factions. Conceptually, the idea that different beings from around the galaxy perceive and manipulate the Force in different ways is fascinating. But it also seems like a necessary story-telling device if the ultimate goal is to avoid retreading the same ground covered in previous films.

And although I realize that Kylo idolizes Vader, I do wonder how much, if any, knowledge he has about his grandfathers' Sith heritage/legacy? Luke knew of the "darkside," not the Sith. That being the case, it's just too good an opportunity to have Kylo forge his own path; which has already happened somewhat with the creation of the KOR.

The Sith died with Vader and the Emperor. IMHO, it's time for some new evil blood in SW.

 

We can only HOPE that the Disney Group will think so hard and deeply before writing anything!

 

You mean, like we are? Lol!!

I certainly HOPE so.

 

Faith in the Force. Small groups believing in the force around the galaxy.

I think that Episode VIII will reveal more about the history of the Jedi and the ability of the force.

I think he's forging his own path. Kylo thrives off of anger and hatred which is really what Vader thrived off of. I don't think Kylo cares nor wants to care about the sith.

 

I agree. And really, the "KOR" aid in the progression of both of those concepts; they serve a dual role.

Expanding the myth, or at the very least broadening its scope, seems like the best way to advance the story. We all worry about the films getting stale. I personally think the better bet moving forward is to try news things and introduce new concepts.

The KOR are hopefully the start of that.

 

I wonder if pain might come into play for the Knights of Ren in a way that it didn't for the Sith. I think something like that got pointed out somewhere because of the way Kylo hits his wound during his fight with Rey.

 

But I believe it was said (maybe on th edvd) that he is using hte pain to access the force.

 

Pain gives him focus

 

I'm fairly certain JJ discusses it on the TFA making-of doc.

 

While i do like Vader's castle, I have to say that the exterior shot of the castle is one of the few visuals that disappointed me in Rogue One. Not the castle itself, but the lava around it. The lava is mostly black, with just a small trickle of red/orange lava coming from the castle like a dam. I think the visual would have been much better to have a lot more red/orange lava flowing around the castle, rather than so much black lava.

 

The Witches are a smaller group, but Palpatine did certainly respect and fear them a little in the Clone Wars. However my point wasn't that all Darkside traditions are the same powerwise, just that they exist.

The Witches used the darkside and they didn't make big plays like the Sith did. There are many reasons you could come up with for the Knights of Ren to take a back seat for a while or how their docturine wouldn't push for massive take over until recently. What you're saying is certainly possible, but it is by no means the only way it could have happened or the only logically way for it to go. Given how Abrams and co. have tried to distance Kylo and the KoR from the Sith, I don't think we'll even hear the worth Sith in the ST.

He wants to kill Luke because he is a threat - ANYONE with the second goal would also have the 1st. And as its been pointed out only Kylo seems to have a lightsaber.

 

Why is it raining on Mustafar? LOL

 

Wouldn't that be Lukes school?