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SPECULATION Darth Vader's Presence in the Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by tm0910196, Jul 7, 2017.

  1. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Greetings, Cantina!

    One of the first connections we saw to the preceding films in the early trailers for The Force Awakens was the charred helmet of Darth Vader, which Kylo Ren kept for dark side guidance.

    6d333edb93158a3220c76e52f4aa9f5b.png

    Once the movie was released, we learned that Kylo Ren was Vader's grandson and spoke to "him" on a regular basis. We also heard Rey reference Vader after Kylo Ren failed his interrogation of her. Additionally, we know from the TFA novel that Snoke and Kylo have brushed off Vader's return to the light as mere momentary "sentiment," of little consequence compared to his life overall.

    The Force Awakens also created a subplot of its own involving Anakin/Luke's lightsaber, meaning there may be references to either Anakin or Luke's use of the weapon from prior films.

    maz_in_the_trailer.jpg

    Rogue One took advantage of its setting in the Star Wars timeline and gave us Darth Vader directly, demonstrating not only Vader's prowess (not to be confused with Prowse! Terrible pun...) against non-Jedi foes, but also this new lair on Mustafar, where he was revealed to spend a lot of time:

    KrennicArrival.jpg

    Doug Chiang suggested that Vader's tower was designed with the hope that it could be used in future movies (see this article).

    Additionally, SWNN already posted a scoop that Mustafar may appear in the sequel trilogy at some point, and it doesn't seem likely that Rogue One would introduce something like Vader's castle only for it never to be used again.

    We know Kylo's interest in Vader will not be lessened as we go into The Last Jedi, and depending on where things go for Rey, we may find that she's connected to Vader/Anakin as well.

    But what other ways will Vader influence the sequel trilogy? What impact will his memory have on established characters? What heirlooms of Vader's past might we see moving forward? How will the legacy of Vader dictate the actions of Kylo Ren?

    Discuss. :)
     
    #1 tm0910196, Jul 7, 2017
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  2. Darth Raybo

    Darth Raybo Rebel Official

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    I think Kylo will visit Vader's castle at some point and find something of importance that Kylo can use. Might be armor or something like that.
    I do question that Kylo is speaking to Vader. We saw in ROTJ that Vader turned back to the light side and became Anakin Skywalker as a force ghost. Since this happened there could be no way for him to "speak" to Vader because there is no more of Vader he is Anakin. I did see somewhere can't remember off the top of my head, but Mask and such things that Sith used to use or own had memories and visions that other dark side users could see when worn or used. (Knights of Ren)
    He may be confusing visions and such as speaking to him, but that would be pretty weird for that to happen. Usually when speaking there is a conversation between two persons so that would be hard to explain or understand, so I don't think this is what happens. So is Anakin a evil force ghost? Can there be such a thing? Once again I don't think that is the answer. My theory is Snoke is the one he is talking to, Snoke is fooling Kylo and making him believe he is speaking to Vader. It's just one more of the tricks he is using to push Kylo to the Dark Side and get him to do what he wants.
    What do others think of this theory? Do you think this is a possibility or am I way off on this line of thinking? Curious to see what others think about this.
     
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  3. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Oh, I definitely think Snoke could be confusing Kylo into thinking he's hearing Vader. I also think your "visions" idea is onto something. Think of it: Anakin's lightsaber caused visions for Rey related to the history and future of the weapon.

    I imagine Kylo Ren could get similar visions from Vader's helmet. I also imagine we'll be seeing a trend of artifacts belonging to the Chosen One giving people visionary experiences.
     
    #3 tm0910196, Jul 19, 2017
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  4. Darth Raybo

    Darth Raybo Rebel Official

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    Thanks tm0910196, and great point on Rey and the lightsaber. So it might be all force users can get visions from former Jedi and Sith artifacts. Could be light and dark side type of thing where only light side can get visions from Jedi artifacts, and dark side users can only get visions from Sith. I do hope they expand on this, or it could be in some of the new cannon coming out. I have not caught up on all my reading so something could be out already, but I'm with you and think this could become a trend in the future movies if this is where they are going with it. Can't wait to find out that's for sure.
     
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  5. Imperial Purple

    Imperial Purple Rebelscum

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    I almost wonder if Ben (Kylo Ren) is all words and talk talk. He seems frustrated. I could see that Ben only wishes and yearns that his grandfather spoke to him -- via Force Ghost, or whatnot -- but Anakin is the one we last saw as a Force Ghost. And, as hard as it is to stomach, Anakin (as a character) is smarter than reaching out to Kylo. Ani has the power of foresight after all.
     
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  6. Darth Raybo

    Darth Raybo Rebel Official

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    So your saying he could be making up the talking to Vader, or he wants to believe so bad he thinks he is without no contact. Thinking about that this could be the case, he could be fooling himself with his own mind. Interesting point of view, it's making me think that's for sure. Great post. (crossguard)
     
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  7. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Jedi General

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    I'd honestly be shocked if Vader's Castle and FG Anakin didn't appear at all in the ST.

    While the scene of Vader's Castle in RO was great, if you think about it, the setting doesn't really affect the story or scene at all. It would have kinda been pointless if they weren't setting it up for future use.

    Love him or hate him, Anakin has a pretty good chance of appearing in some way during the ST. From a storytelling stand point, it makes perfect sense. You have Kylo Ren who worships Darth Vader like a god and you have Darth Vader's light side alter-ego who has the power to appear as a ghost. Could be a really interesting scene. We've also heard Yoda and Obi-Wan's voices in TFA, as well as the trailer for TLJ, which is most likely a hint at their appearance in either TLJ or Episode 9. If they appear, then it would be jarring for Anakin not to appear with them.

    There have also been "rumors" that Hayden Christensen was spotted at Pinewood Studios, but take that with more than one grain of salt, because I believe this is one of those "leaks," that come from untrustworthy sites or YouTube channels, that are really just clickbait to make a quick buck. Aside from that, Hayden did appear at Star Wars Celebration this year. While yes, that was probably mostly for the 40th anniversary, I think the timing is something to consider with Episode 8 to be coming out the same year. (I mean, 40 years isn't as big of a hallmark as say, 10, 25, 50, etc.) Not to mention, he was already supposed to appear in TFA. I think that fact alone points to him to quite possibly showing up in Episode 8 or 9.

    In conclusion, I feel like basically all of what is said above in this thread. to be correct. Mustafar's already rumored to be appearing in the ST, most likely Vader's Castle. Anakin appearing in the ST is very likely, from both a storytelling stand-point and some other bits of info that may or may not be proof to this. Personally, I really can't wait to see both of these potentially showing up in future films. I feel Hayden deserves another shot at the role of Anakin Skywalker, and this is the perfect oppurtunity to do this.
     
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  8. CT - 5555

    CT - 5555 Rebel Trooper

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    I have to agree with JediChase17, it would be kind of ridiculous if Vader didn't play a large roll in the sequel trilogy. A lot of George Lucas's vision was that the entire Star Wars saga is the story of the life, death, and legacy on Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. Keeping with that theme sequel trilogy is all about the legacy of Anakin/Vader. Kylo Ren wants to become him, Luke fears someone else becoming him; Vader's influence is already very strong in the ST and it would be a bit of a let down if they didn't move that plotline forward in TLJ or Episode IX.
     
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  9. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    I made a similar point in a different thread. Not just Vader's castle, but all of Vader's appearances in Rogue One seem like peripheral, bonus stuff that has no real bearing on the story at hand. Fan service? Maybe. Taking advantage of the timeline? Sure. Essential to the story? No. If certain things I've seen on Reddit are right (which...who knows), it sounds like the pre-reshoot version of the film may have had Vader more tightly integrated into the story (he was more involved in the rivalry between Tarkin and Krennic, and he also helped set up Tarkin's takeover of the Death Star from Krennic).

    Indeed. I think I'd be more surprised if Anakin did not appear in some way. We wouldn't even have to see or hear him, if Lucasfilm/Disney truly wanted to maintain distance from Hayden Christensen. But in some sense, he has to figure into the story. Luke has a lot he could learn from him. So does Rey. So does Kylo, too.

    I take those rumors with more than a grain of salt as well. It was rumored beginning around November 2015 that Tarkin would be in Rogue One via CGI. Nothing was confirmed until the movie was almost out (a TV spot showed the back of his head), and Lucasfilm even kept the reveal neatly under wraps, but the Internet "knew" for a long time that Tarkin was in the movie. It's been the same way with the Hayden Christensen rumors. Everything is lining up too coincidentally for Anakin not to show up. Plus, while I'll always prefer the Sebastian Shaw Force ghost, the presence of Christensen in the new films would at least "do something valuable" with a subpar change.

    I agree. It will also be interesting to see how prequel characters function in the world of the sequel trilogy, even if they're Force ghosts.
     
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  10. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Clone Commander

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    I want to see Hayden Christensen reappear in the current films as Anakin's ghost...and I really want him to scare the crap out of his grandson. I've read fanfics where he basically pulls a Jacob Marley routine, straight out of "A Christmas Carol", showing Ben the traps of worshiping the Dark Side. If done right, such a scene could completely change how people perceive Anakin from the prequels, adding a lot of dimension and depth to both him and Ben.

    I'm also hoping that Hayden's appearance at Celebration was more than just a press stop, or fan service. I always loved scenes between Anakin and Leia in the books; hopefully he filmed something with Carrie before she passed away.
     
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  11. Leo626

    Leo626 Rebel Trooper

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    Pre-sequel trilogy Star Wars was made to be, as described by George Lucas, the story of Anakin Skywalker (His rise, fall and redemption). If this is to remain the core of the Star Wars story then he needs to be referenced more in the sequel trilogy than just being an idol for Kylo Ren. I agree with you that a ghost appearance would make a lot of sense in this regards.

    However, this might not be the case, and once the sequel trilogy concludes it might be that when we step back and look at 1-9 as a whole it's no longer the story of Anakin Skywalker but a more broader story about the Force as a whole.
     
  12. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

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    The problem with this idea (the story is the life death and legacy of Anakin Skywalker) is that George changed that around to fit whatever he need it to fit, if that makes sense. He had one film, Star Wars. When it boomed and did better than he could ever have imagined, he suddenly started saying he had 12 films. Then it went to 9. Then, when he finished the OT he said that was all. Then, around 1990 he did an interview on ABC Prime Time Live where he said he would do more at some point. Then we got the PT and suddenly the saga was the story of the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. The really is Anakin Skywalker was not originally Darth Vader and was not the center of the story. They were two separate characters.

    Personally, and this is just me of course, I hope you are right. I hope when we see IX it is a story about the Force as a whole, or the fall, return and reestablishment of the Jedi.
     
  13. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    I think Vader's castle could be used with great effect in IX, as it could make, for Kylo, a far more fitting command post than the damaged Supremacy.

    Kylo always wanted to play Vader. Now's his chance to do it without fear of Snoke's disapproval.

    While there, perhaps Kylo could be confronted / haunted by Force Ghost Anakin and Luke.

    Also, how fitting it might be, if Rey and Kylo have their final meeting or confrontation on Mustafar.

    Imagine the possibilities for Rey/Kylo dialogue "rhyming" to parallel/diverge from the dialogue of Anakin/Ben.

    JJ said IX would bring the saga full circle. Mustafar is a pretty important coordinate along that circle.
     
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