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Death Star 1 and 2

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by BailEarnhardtJr, Sep 18, 2015.

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  1. BailEarnhardtJr

    BailEarnhardtJr Rebel Trooper

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    Just had this thought in the shower this morning. So the first Death Star took 15 to 20 years to build based on what we see at the end of Episode 3. Given there are about 3-6(?) years between New Hope and Jedi, how did they build the 2nd one (which is bigger) in that time? Or were they building 2 all along?

    I am sure other people have thought about this...
     
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  2. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    I'm sure there may be a canonical reason. But my rationalization is that they had to do it in secret the first time. Diverting funds and resources from other projects over time due to Senate oversight. With the senate out of the picture after ANH, Palapatine was free to do whatever he wanted with his war machine.
     
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  3. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Here read up on them.
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Star
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Star_II
     
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  4. Jar Jar Abrams

    Jar Jar Abrams Rebelscum

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    I suppose its like anything really, the first time you build something it always takes longer, next time..well youv'e got your eye in have'nt ya?
     
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  5. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Force Sensitive

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    Here's what my take has always been (going by what we see in the films, because that is what is important to me ;) ):

    1) The first Death Star is already in a reasonably advanced stage of construction at the end of Revenge of the Sith. Could it not be the case that the Death Star was complete for some time before it actually became feasible to implement it? What's a couple more years waiting after generations of plotting? Here's at least part of the intent behind the Death Star:
    "The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."
    "That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"
    "The regional governors now have direct control over territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."

    I suppose the question is, could the Senate not be abolished until there was a Death Star to facilitate this happening, or was the Death Star sat in the wings, waiting to be unleashed until Palpatine had manipulated the Senate out of existence altogether?

    2) The first Death Star was also built in secret. There may have only been a limited amount of resources Palaptine could divert into this project before the Senate took notice and began asking questions. By the time of ROTJ, there is no Senate, and nothing to stand in Palpatine's way.

    3) Getting the second Death Star operational within the allotted timescale was, by Jerjerrod's own admission, impossible.
    "I tell you, this station will be operational as planned."
    "The Emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation."
    "But he asks the impossible. I need more men."
    "We shall double our efforts."

    Nevertheless, the job was done. It was built under extreme duress, the first, perhaps, was not.

    4) The second Death Star is, clearly, not complete. It is merely fully armed and operational.

    5) As Jar Jar Abrams points out above, efficiency always improves after the first attempt at something...
     
    #5 Get In Gear, Sep 21, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
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  6. The light unleashed

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    Wonder if they built the second deathstar WITHOUT that exposed thermal exhaust port....lessons had to be learned surely ;)
     
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  7. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    We never know it was thrown into battle unfinished, the millennium falcon was given a free tour down the inner structure & a blast of the core went boom, job done.
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Bosc

    Bosc Force Attuned

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    The Rebels had to devise a different plan to destroy the second one, which I take as a strong indication that there was no exposed thermal exhaust port.
     
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  9. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    I have to disagree. When you look at the entrance were the Falcon went in, it indeed looks like a huge exhaust port and not a piece of the Death Star that was unfinished. My guess is that since this DS needed more juice since it was more powerful than the first, it's thermal exhaust ports had to be larger. That could explain why they used the shield generator so that it could compensate for needing such a huge port.
     
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  10. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    Maybe they found a source of kyber crystals shortly before ANH, allowing them to complete the first Death Star and then quickly build a second.
     
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  11. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    Oh my gosh, the inner economic geek in me has always wondered what it cost to build a Death Star-

    http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/03/cost-star-wars-death-star

    "The market would theoretically drop 20 percent after DS2 explodes, and a total of 15–20 percent of the galactic gross product (GGP) would be needed to recover financially. With an estimated $4.6 sextillion Galactic economy, the bailout would run between $690 and $920 quintillion."
    So basically, they'd be thrown in to an Empire-wide depression, thanks to the Rebels.
     
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  12. DarthMoonlight

    DarthMoonlight Rebelscum

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  13. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    Oh please, not that nuCanon retcon, again. I still can't get over the fact that they discarded the previous rationalization where they even had input from a real astrophysicist.

    Since this is a OT thread, I can bluntly express my dislike with the idea that what we see at the end of RotS was supposedly the first Death Star. The dialogue doesn't indicate that, maybe it was a prototype of some kind.
    Between ANH and ROJ there is a time passage of 3.5 years and the prologue of ROJ is brutally clear:

    "Little does Luke know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly begun construction on a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star."

    Assuming it took them 20 years to built the first Death Star, than it only took them 3.5 years to build the second - which was at least twice as big? Please!

    And now everybody assumes that the Death Star was Tarkin's baby. Sorry, if there was one thing ANH (and various screen drafts) made clear, then it was Admiral Motti who was the driving force behind the Death Star and the one getting over-excited about it, in contrast to Vader and Tarkin (who merely regarded it as a convenient tool of power).

    And ANH even featured what was obviously the original inspiration for the Death Star. Remember these seeker balls or "remotes" Luke trained with aboard the Falcon? Originally these were (and still are) remotes to seek out criminals and execute them, this was part of the text that came along with this McQuarrie painting:

    McQuarrie Cantina with executor seeker balls.png

    So instead we got this alien species in AotC that supposedly came up with the idea. This is probably how the session went: "Is there any way we can make this species really mean?" "How about we let them invent the Death Star?" (facepalm)

    P.S. I would have understood the Troll vote in the PT or the General Discussion thread, but defending original OT concepts in the OT thread? Wow!
     
    #13 Lt. Hija, Dec 8, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
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  14. Schwarma

    Schwarma Clone Commander

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    Probably one of the few things I thought was tremendously silly about the OT was the fact that the Empire came up with a slightly bigger version of exactly the same weapon to defeat the rebellion just a couple oif years after getting their butts kicked. It's like someone building a new, bigger Titanic in 1915 and insisting there was no chance at all that it could sink.:)
     
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  15. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    ^^ Certainly Vader's eyewitness report helped them to plug the hole they had overlooked the first time.

    But what other option did the Galactic Empire have? In ANH they had disbanded the Imperial Senate and along with it the bureaucracy that probably collected the taxes to keep the Empire running. The new plan had been for the regional governors to do that with the Death Star as their backup.

    After the Death Star's destruction 1,026 star systems joined the Rebel Alliance and to restore order and bring the rogue systems back into line, the ultimate threat was revived.
     
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  16. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    You can blunty express an opinion, but that doesn't mean you can be blunt towards people who don't share that opinion. "Oh, please, not that again" comes off as an ad hominim attack.

    From the shooting script:

    Tagge: I think the construction of this station has more to do with Governor Tarkin’s bid for recognition than any prudent military strategy. The rebellion will continue to gain support in the Imperial senate as long as…

    Motti came off to me as Tarkin's naive toady who overestimates his own importance.
     
    #16 Darth Sidious, Dec 8, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
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  17. HAL'sgal

    HAL'sgal Force Sensitive

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    Well, heck they built 5 Babylon stations in Babylon 5 before one of them stuck. Practice makes perfect, I guess. At least in sci fi land!
     
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  18. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    Its a cheap way out, but the "4th moon of Endor" had the huge shield generator system to protect the massive incomplete Death Star II. This plan granted the use of CA's beautiful Redwood trees(also near LA & San Francisco) with the cute Ewoks, (ewok).
    To my understanding, the Empire & Palpatine wanted a network of Death Star stations in the different sectors to maintain order thru fear & terror. Palpatine wanted to draw the entire rebel fleet into a elaborate trap to crush them all even if he had to lose 1000s of troops, (stormtrooper) . This dialogue is brought up in a deleted ROTJ scene.
     
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  19. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    Frankly, I was under the impression that your Kyber crystal remark was sarcastic and I played along, thus my remark was targeted at the concept itself but definitely not at you (especially since I hold your general ANH input in high esteem, whilst some people seem eager to downgrade its canon value to a kind of fifth wheel). Off all the people here in the Cantina you rank among those I would never dare to ridicule or mock, so I'm really sorry that you got a wrong impression.

    But if you think that the Kyber crystal retcon as a means to power the Death Star(s)' superweapon is a better explanation than the anti-/hypermatter particle stream concept laid out in previous Lucasfilm books, please feel free to elaborate

    That is correct, yet the context of the actual scene in the film always seemed to suggest otherwise, IMHO:

    MOTTI Any attack made by the Rebels against this station would be a useless gesture, no matter what technical data they've obtained. This station is now the ultimate power in the universe. I suggest we use it!

    VADER Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.


    Vader doesn't move his head around to suggest he includes all Imperial officers present, but is somehow locked to only face Motti as if it's Motti's "technological terror" (Tarkin stays noticably silent during this debate as if he has no part in it and only intervenes to stop the bickering).

    It's also later that Motti feels compelled to personally announce "The final check-out is complete. All systems are operational. What course shall we set?"

    The draft from January 15, 1976 had an "Imperial officer" (Commander # One? Cass?) deliver the news, but in the draft from March 15, 1976 and the final film it's Motti himself which looks like a last minute premise change.

    But anyway, in the context of all six films the discussion is academic as neither Tarkin or Motti were the driving forces behind the Death Star but some alien species. ;-)
     
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  20. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    The Death Star II looked to be about 25% - 31% finished, with the shield there to make sure that it was safe during its construction, like how there are fences built up around houses while they are under construction .
     
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