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Destroy all for which they have fought and suffered

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Obi5Kenobi, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Trooper

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    "I've got to go to them."

    "Decide you must, how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could, but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered."



    What the heck does this mean? How would helping his friends destroy all they had fought and suffered for? And, I don't see that it happened. Yoda appears to have been wrong. Thoughts?
     
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  2. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras Jedi General
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    I always took it that if he rushed off to save his friends then he would potentially be facing Vader before he was ready & so the likely hood of him either dying or worse joining him was significantly increased. Now obvasly that didn’t happen but if it had that certainly would potentially “Destroy all they have fought & suffered for”.
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Star Wars dot com has this on their site:

    https://www.starwars.com/news/8-great-life-teachings-from-yoda


    Luke confronted Vader before he was ready and he could have:
    1. Died in the battle effectively ruining the odds for the Rebellion to win.
    2. Been seduced by Vader and the dark side. This was set into motion and was really a "possible" outcome until he threw down his lightsaber and chose pacifism and love over violence and anger. He was on a shaky path for a lot of ROTJ truthfully. Killing poor Gamorean guards for no reason. Essentially killing everyone on Jabba's barge when they really didn't have to....it's pretty messed up if you think about it. He could have easily slipped into the full dark side mode and squashed the Rebellion.

    Remember, always in motion the future is.
    Yoda wasn't wrong, he definitely saw something bad and Luke nearly escaped death on Bespin and flirted with the dark side more than what was probably comfortable for Yoda and Ben. Luke just skirted around it all, luckily.
    Just like Luke saw something bad in Ben Solo and thought about doing something about it. Unlike last time, however, it did go to the worst case scenario and his actions did destroy all he and his friends fought for. That old Skywalker hot temper...
     
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  4. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Trooper

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    Maybe Yoda meant that Luke could or might destroy all that his friends had fought and suffered for, but he says that Luke will destroy all that his friends had fought and suffered for, if he goes. Yoda said his words as a certainty: If you do this, this other thing will happen. Maybe it was just his opinion but that's not how he said it. :confused:
     
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  5. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    Building on the excellent points already made in this thread: Not only would he be facing Vader before he was ready, but there is also the fact that they (maybe?) considered Luke to be their last hope - so if he did turn to the Dark Side or get killed, it would be the end.

    This has always been one of the toughest choices in all the SW movies. Most people feel that Luke made the wrong choice, but while Yoda is very wise, he is not infallible, and it is possible for Yoda to be wrong. If Luke had stayed with Yoda, Vader might have killed Han and maybe even Lando and Leia (since Vader didn't know who Leia really was), and this could have actually been very bad for the Rebellion. Additionally, it's not clear whether Yoda and Obi-Wan were ever planning to tell Luke that Vader is his father, so if Luke had just completed his training and killed Vader without ever knowing, I don't really see that as a good ending even if it may have been what Yoda hoped for.
     
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  6. Obiwonallmygames

    Obiwonallmygames Rebelscum

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    Yoda would have been right if his father hadn’t of saved him.
     
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  7. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    I think it goes beyond all of this.

    Yoda knew who Leia was, the daughter of Vader. Having Luke go could have tipped Vader off, connecting them as his offspring. Beyond that, Han and Leia, it could be argued, did not want Luke to go because they knew it was a trap set for him by Vader. They resisted telling Vader anything about Luke intentionally (destroy all for which they have fought and suffered). Though we don't know for sure, it's quite possible Lando could have gotten Leia out without Luke's interference (though that is definitely debatable as Luke did tie up Vader during that rescue).

    This was more or less my interpretation, beyond what was already mentioned.
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Yeah but the writer of the story didn't know Leia was Vader's daughter at the time
    ;)
     
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  9. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    The argument could be made that they might have been able to catch up to Boba and rescue Han right then and there if they hadn’t had to go back and save lefty Luke instead. That’s my head cannon anyhow :)
     
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  10. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    Agreed, yet I believe even by ESB they had an idea that Leia was going to be more than just a princess. Vader mentions her exceptionality in ANH for resisting his interrogation, then Luke can contact her in ESB, and Yoda even mentions that there is "an other".
     
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  11. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Trooper

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    Sorry to be a nitpicker, I'm just a huge Star Wars nerd! I don't recall Luke killing any Gamorean guards. He choked two and they backed off grasping their necks but we didn't see them die, did we? Past that point I think only the rancor killed a Gamorean. Unless I'm forgetting something, which is entirely possible.
     
    #11 Obi5Kenobi, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  12. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    That was my read too.
     
  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    There is no evidence either way on whether or not he killed the guards if you want to be that technical about it.
    But it's supposed to be implied that he COULD kill those guards. Hence him wearing all black and using a technique you only ever see from Vader in the trilogy when he chokes three Imperial officers and kills two of them. (The first was just a showboat move demonstrating his force gifts).
    So when you see Luke use the choke on two guards and they clutch and fall motionless to the ground you are really left to assume they are either passed out or dead. Now given the nature of this scene and the wanton disregard for the lives of everyone in Jabba's Palace, save for our heroes, it's fair to read it as dead. I always read it as he killed them because he was in the all black, using a dark side technique. That, to me, doesn't leave a whole lot of leeway on what happened.

    Either way you choose to read it, it leads to the same conclusion. Luke is not the same Luke he was in ESB and is now dressed in all black (good guys don't wear black in Star Wars!) and is using the same technique his father used on three separate occasions. So basically it's a moot point on kill or unconscious. The point is the same either way. Luke is treading dangerous dark side water and we should be worried about him.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 8, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 8, 2019 ---
    The other was supposed to be Luke's *actual* sister though right?
    It's pretty silly to try and hammer down the details considering how drastically the story changed from ANH > ESB > ROTJ
     
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  14. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Can’t really say I’m onboard with this assessment. I’ll agree the aesthetic was intended to invoke thoughts of Vader and introduce that idea to the audience. But I can’t get behind the idea of Luke outright murdering people unprovoked. That’s not ‘leaning’ toward the darkside. That IS the darkside. It’s way more in line with his character to me to nonviolently neutralize a potential threat by incapacitating the guards before things escalated further. That’s what he was doing by trying to barter with Jabba. Aggression was the LAST resort for him, not the first.
     
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    If Luke sees them as enemies, then all bets are off.
    And in the novelization, Luke didn't want Jabba to accept the barter. He was happy when Jabba rebuked him and he was then "provoked".
    Luke could have easily seen them as enemy combatants in this mission to rescue his friends.

    Throw on that they blow up the barge all together, logically killing everyone board....Luke came back a pretty reckless and violent dude.
     
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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I don’t understand why he’d need provocation in your scenario. Why bother? If that’s his mindset then why not assassinate Jabba from the start and take Han back by force? Enemy combatant and all.

    The overcomplicated plot he concocted tells me one very important thing about ROTJ Luke: he wanted to avoid killing anyone if he could. He tried diplomacy first. He only resulted to violence when nonviolent methods had been exhausted. I’m sorry, but casual, needless, remorseless murder isn’t compatible with that.
    They were making their getaway in that dinky skiff. Makes sense to disable the barge from giving pursuit. Hard to say if he knew the whole thing would blow from that one shot (maybe there was an exposed exhaust port :D). Anyway, RIP Max Rebo. Wrong place, wrong time :)
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    MAX REBO WAS AN INNOCENT SOUL TAKEN FROM THE WORLD TOO SOON BY EXTREMIST REBELS. HOW DARE YOU MINIMIZE HIS DEATH!11!!!

    But seriously, I think it's because Jabba IS important.
    No one will care about two dead Gamorrean guards but a dead mob boss with Imperial ties....
     
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  18. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    You’re right. He was a piano playing elephantine angel. Too good for that galaxy and any other. He’s awkwardly mashing keys in heaven now (or somewhere approximate).
    Agree to disagree. That’s one of the great things about Star Wars. We all have our own individual version of it in our heads - the one that works best for us. Nothing wrong with that :)
     
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  19. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel Trooper

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    I'm going to go with: Max Rebo and the band took a break to use the bathroom skiff which had moved away from the sail barge to lessen the exposure to the smell. Max is on tour and tells fans about his close call. Droopy McCool gives him a hard time about telling old stories but in the end they're buddies.
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    With his feet! He's a damn inspiration to everyone!
     
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