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Did Ben Solo use "The Skywalker Saber"?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Kylo Ren uses his self-made saber made with a cracked red crystal. But what did he use before that, when he was Luke's apprentice?

    I am wondering if Luke, in the hope of setting Ben on the right path gave him his (and his father's before him) saber to use. Of course, we don't know how the saber was retrieved from Bespin so this is far from a complete idea.

    However, one line in TFA makes me wonder if the saber, that we see induce visions for Rey, once did the same for Ben Solo: "Show me again, the power of the darkness".

    It appears to me that at some point Ben Solo/Kylo had a vision that he thought came from Vader or certainly included Vader.

    Now we know what happened to Rey when she touched the saber and we know the her visions included Ren. What if this is because Ben used to wield it? "That weapon...it belongs to me!". In the novel it even explains that a boy is there during the Cloud City part of the sequence. Was that Ben observing the same event in a vision when he had the saber?

    And if this is the case, is this the moment where Ren witnesses whatever leads to his promise to Vader: "I will finish what you started?".

    Of course, that fight reveals Vader is Luke's father and the only real thing that Vader wants to do is to turn Luke and rule the galaxy with him as father a son. Essentially, have the galaxy ruled by the Skywalker dynasty. Now in TFA I have always felt that Kylo wanted something that wasn't in line with Snoke - he didn't for instance seem too keen on destroying the Hosnian system nor the Resistance base. What Kylo wanted was to find Luke. He was hell bent on doing that and went ape s**t when Rey escaped - his last chance to get the map and find Luke.

    Might it just be that Kylo wanted to find Luke, turn him to the Dark Side and ensure the Skywalker dynasty that Vader wanted?

    So did Luke give Ben the saber? Or did Ren find the saber later have have these visions after he turned evil and before Maz took the saber from him?
     
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  2. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    There is this virtual reality part that maybe is out of the perspective of Ben. Could this be when he had the lightsaber?



    I agree and Kylo's intentions are different from Snoke's. Snoke doesn't want Luke to return and Kylo wants to find him. We don't know 100% if he wants to kill Luke. In case you are right and Kylo instead wants to turn Luke to the dark side, how can he manage this? Maybe with threatening his daughter? :p
     
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  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Indeed I think Ben Solo was once the owner of the "Skywalker Saber" before he had been fallen to the dark side. Unfortunately there is no real evidence if Ben was ever in possession of the saber. We only know that Anakin Skywalker's sword was recovered by a scavenger in bespin and then found its way to Maz Kanata.
    But Kylo Ren recognises the saber, so he has seen it before...

    Hopefully we get an answer in EPVIII.
     
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  4. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    Yeah, he said "That light saber it belongs to me". I think he may have had it at some point, or at least recognized it.
     
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  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    well there's an elegantly simple motive that hadn't crossed my mind. huh.

    i do think Ren Ben had his hands on the saber at some point, though i don't have any particular thoughts on when or how.
    it makes total sense to me that Ren and Rey are sharing a vision through it, perhaps.
    and i do believe the boy she sees is him, ~ though he was cut from the film, so it's one of those squirrely moments of canonical questionableness.
     
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  6. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    it's a tough one this, as "That light saber - it belongs to me" is probably what he would have said with either of these scenarios being true:-

    1. He was given the light saber while he was Ben Solo training with Luke.
    2. He has never been in possession of it, but recognizes that it is Vaders. He has Vaders mask and would consider any of his grandfathers belongings as 'his'.

    i personally don't think he had the saber before. If he was hung up on an item that belonged to Ben Solo (who he says doesn't exist anymore) then that would be... very interesting. Ben Solo would shout that... not Kylo ;)

    I think that the story of Anakin's light saber (post cloud city) will be told by Maz in episode 8, and i doubt that any main protagonist got their hands on it during that time till Rey picked it up.
     
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  7. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    If Luke did give Ben the saber it would make that scene interesting when
    The other thing that ties into this for me is Ren's relationship with Leia. He doesn't mention her. In the novel he cuts Snoke off from talking about her. And we know that Ren holds his family lineage in high esteem - it's stated as being important to him in the visual dictionary.

    I think that Snoke wants to complete his training by getting him to kill his mother or at the least kidnap her. I am not sure if Ren will be able to do that because it could just conflict with his own goal of having his family rule the galaxy. I started a thread a while ago about Kylo's secret mission and I guess I am talking about the same thing here - albeit from a different approach. I just feel that Ren is up to something else and the saber may hold the key...
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2016 ---
    Well, the originally leaked story goes that the KoR defeated The Clan and took the saber (which had come to them from a series of events) and then whilst the Ren's were having a camp fire, Maz stole it back.
     
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  8. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    this is a fun line of conjecture.

    i've always felt from the start that Ren is up to something ~ not outright subterfuge against Snoke, but some other line of thought about his destiny that doesn't entirely jive with Snoke's immediate plans. in this case, perhaps he thinks he can turn Luke to prevent Snoke from feeling the need to kill him? like he tried to turn Rey knowing--at least in the novel--that it was either that or Snoke would likely destroy her or make Ren destroy her.

    i still am not convinced Ren is plotting in any way against Snoke specifically. he just doesn't have that kind of subterfuge in him.
    it's more obvious, again, in the book-- but he's so honest about what he thinks. everything is right on the surface all the time.

    all that said, you're right about that one glaring omission: the black hole that is Ben's relationship with Leia.
    everything in the book was cut from the film, even the reference to her on the bridge:
    Han originally says "your mother misses you" and Ren Ben nearly starts to cry.

    whether that is meaningful remains to be seen. his father was disposable if this is, in fact, his plan: to restore Vader's heirs to the throne and, barring their cooperation, take it himself? i never once get the impression that whatever he's doing is for his own glory.
    he seems perfectly okay being Snoke's dog, and whatever he's after, he seems to consider it greater than himself.
    so in a way, i think even if he's determined to take over the galaxy it's for some greater purpose than merely to rule.

    it becomes a bit of a contradiction: ascension is destroying him, but he feels compelled (by destiny? by the Force?) to follow this path?
     
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  9. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    It's possible, but I'm going to say no based on Han's reaction to seeing the lightsaber. Of course Kylo Ren wants the blade because he's obsessed with relics associated with his grandfather.
     
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  10. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Yeah, I think you're right re: Kylo being an open book.
    Interesting about his reaction to Leia within the book. It's like he blames Han easily and for everything (and himself a bit). "...weak and foolish like his father". He never mentions Leia in the same vein. This again alludes to his view on the power of the Skywalker lineage. It's importance. But also shows how Snoke has deformed his mind. He views this Force power and "destiny" above all else, including the love for his father. Something that he perhaps realises but doesn't admit is foolish soon after killing Han.

    It looks like Ben largely blamed his father and own weakness for his feelings of conflict and pain. How it then must've hurt him when Leia sent him away - the one parent he perhaps respected the most and aspired to be like.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2016 ---
    You say that, but I always found it strange how Han recognised the saber. Would he really remember Luke's lightsaber? I know he used it once himself but still...
    "Where'd you get that?", could in fact suggest that Han saw his own son with it.
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    If this becomes Ben's old saber it's probably a decision made after that scene was filmed. So that's why I say it's possible. I don't think that was the original intention. Anyway, there's not much to add to this at this point. Just have to wait and see.
     
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  12. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i'm vascillating on what Ren Ben actually thinks about his father. i agree his relationship with Han is likely less complex than it is with Leia, but i'm inclined to believe he also has less anger toward his father (because of Han's lack of FS and the bloodline) than he does his mother (who really should have known better, understood him more, been honest, etc.). that's why i think he calls Han weak and foolish: because Han didn't know any better than to listen to Leia, do as she said. Han didn't understand that Snoke was after him, couldn't protect him. Leia could have and should have (to his thinking).

    so again, i'm finding it contradictory that he would want to restore Vader's legacy through the restoration of power to his children, when, really, it's those children who he ought to deem most unworthy. but, as you said, it could be his intention to give them a "turn or die" option and, in this way, finish what Vader started?

    i still think the goal is bigger.

    i agree with this. it almost seems like Han knew his son had it at one time (he hasn't seen his son yet on Takodana, but he seems to have a slightly queasy reaction to the light saber, and Maz isn't going to discuss it right then, which, to me, suggests that maybe she knows it's best not to dredge up the family pain at this moment rather than that being a "convenient" omission.
     
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  13. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I think Leia would pay you good money @FN-3263827 to be her son's shrink!

    "Luke's a Jedi...Han was his father...you're his psychotherapist". ;)
     
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  14. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    if i could get him away from Snoke and help him find a measure of peace to go home to his mother, i'd do it for free ~ hahahaha!
     
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  15. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Did Maz take it from Kylo? She doesn't specify where or how she got it, only she would tell Han later which won't happen now.
     
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  16. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I'm not sure if it was a vision within a vision for rey if that's the case but if Ben was one of his first students and Luke was lacking on sabers then I'd assume he'd be given it as if to keep it
    "within the family."
     
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  17. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    In the VII leaks it was said that the KOR took it after defeating a Clan and then Maz stole it from the KOR as they had a campfire.

    Make of that what you will!
     
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  18. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Well @master_shaitan you are on point with these theories! I think the largest problem for this theory (in my mind) is that - if he had the lightsaber, why or how did he lose it? Everything else would be pretty cool, and it could explain why Kylo's lightsaber is so...worn...maybe that was actually his first attempt to build a lightsaber because before then, he'd just been using his uncle/grandfather's saber.
     
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  19. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    What if Rey's vision on Bespin is REALLY Kylo losing the saber?
     
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  20. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Possible, but I don't think I'd be able to take it seriously if that was the case (mostly because I'm rusty on what happened during said Force-Back. I'll try to get back to you if/when I rewatch the scene).
     
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