1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Did JJ Throw Himself Under a Bus?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by SegNerd, Apr 15, 2020.

  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,646
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,707
    Ratings:
    +43,295 / 189 / -99
    basically what they did in Battlefront 2 would have worked imo
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    19,665
    Trophy Points:
    146,667
    Credits:
    18,025
    Ratings:
    +24,070 / 64 / -37
    Eh, honestly a Sentinal droid would've been massively underwhelming to me.

    TBH, I liked the sith ritual stuff- I just wish it was a bit more fleshed out.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
    1030th Captain ** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Posts:
    3,367
    Likes Received:
    34,684
    Trophy Points:
    157,967
    Credits:
    19,650
    Ratings:
    +36,948 / 77 / -39
    TROS was ok... I enjoyed reading the art of TROS more so than the actual film. TROS has some good elements and some really bad ones. JJ did his best to connect the trilogy. It just looks like he was trying to salvage whatever story he had from TFA. Snoke is killed so bring back the guy that inspired the creation of Snoke... cough cough... Palpy. Kylo Ren's new helmets conceived in the Art of TROS would have been better for KYLO Ren rather than have him wearing a broken one... symbolism I get it.
    Colin Trevorrow's leaked script moved the story forward JJ just tied things up in a somewhat awkward way... he did an ok job... still Trevorrows leaked version would have been much better. So JJ didn't throw himself under a bus he did the best possible job that he could to salvage this muddled sequel trilogy. JJ will be fine at Warner Bros. $500 million. He can walk away into the sunset and never look back... KK threw JJ under the bus to save her dumb @$$. KK used JJ after she messed everything up. I'm tired of KK... next put Filoni in charge by god.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  4. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Posts:
    557
    Likes Received:
    1,101
    Trophy Points:
    5,742
    Credits:
    1,578
    Ratings:
    +1,448 / 3 / -0
    No, I think if anyone is really to blame here, it’s Disney/Lucasfilm. If they knew they weren’t going to have the same person helm all three films, they should’ve developed a clear structure for this trilogy from the beginning and stuck to it. I think they had very broad ideas of where they wanted each character to end up by the end of it, but for the most part, nothing was laid out in depth.

    J.J. is far from a perfect filmmaker, and The Rise of Skywalker is easily the most flawed film in the entire Sequel Trilogy. However, there are a lot of rumors that the version of the film released by Disney was VERY different from the version J.J. had written and filmed. If that’s true, this is entirely on Disney. Personally, I think releasing a three-hour cut of The Rise of Skywalker was entirely justified. They had no problem doing it for Endgame, so I don’t see why this would be any different. The film would’ve GREATLY benefitted from it. Certain narrative elements –– including Palpatine’s return and the Rey parentage reveal –– needed additional exposition and/or time to digest.

    Like others have mentioned, there is NO way Palpatine’s involvement in this film (his return, his role in turning Ben to the dark side, his relationship to Rey, etc.) was planned from the beginning. He plays absolutely no role in The Force Awakens and is only mentioned once in The Last Jedi when Luke is talking to Rey about the shortcomings of the Jedi Order. Personally, I think it makes perfect sense for Palpatine to be behind everything. It ties this trilogy to the previous six films. However, the way it was executed was clunky, and if his return would’ve been planned from the start, the whole Palpatine issue could’ve been largely resolved.

    It’s unfortunate that J.J. will likely always be the scapegoat for The Rise of Skywalker disappointing the fans that weren’t happy with it when it’s honestly much bigger than him. All things considered, I think he did a pretty good job considering he had no idea he would return to the franchise, and he had to start from scratch after Colin Trevorrow was fired and Carrie Fisher passed away. Ending the entire saga was a really daunting task and I think he did an admirable job at the end of the day. As someone who loved the sequels, I blame all of their flaws on Disney and Lucasfilm, not the directors.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  5. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Posts:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    8,195
    Trophy Points:
    87,567
    Credits:
    12,338
    Ratings:
    +10,506 / 195 / -29
    Wondering how different this version is. So curious about it. IF there's really a JJ version of the film, of course...
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,646
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,707
    Ratings:
    +43,295 / 189 / -99
    Maybe because they hyped him up.
    What would you have prefered:
    A) the Emperor as used and hyped in TROS
    or
    B) No hype but a surprise cameo in a sentinel droid that hints his involvement in a larger plan
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Posts:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    8,195
    Trophy Points:
    87,567
    Credits:
    12,338
    Ratings:
    +10,506 / 195 / -29
    B for sure.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,646
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,707
    Ratings:
    +43,295 / 189 / -99
    I'm sure a "director's cut" exists. They do for most movies. But the issue is always run time and the feasibility of releasing them.

    To expound on this a bit:

    I believe at one point JJ said they filmed A TON of raw footage (as most major blockbusters do) for TROS. If this is true, then there is undoubtedly a cut of the movie that is probably in excesses of 4 hours.

    It's a production cut. Unfinished. This is what we've been going through with the #ReleaseThe SnyderCut debacle. Yes there is a cut more "true" to what Abrams intended but it's raw, unfinished and probably 2 movies worth of time.

    And that doesn't even guarantee that it's actually better or hell, even as good as TROS we got in theaters. Same logic applies to the leaked CT stuff. It SOUNDS interesting and better (imo) but there's no guarantee it would have been.

    Personally, I tend to believe that it's more of a Batman V Superman situation rather than a Justice League situation (there's a commonality between all three of these movies btw, shouldn't go overlooked). Where an extended/directors cut may iron out some wrinkles but it isn't going to drastically change the overall quality of the movie.

    BvS went from "yikes" to "meh" on the theatrical to extended cuts. If you liked it, you liked it more. If you didn't like it, it may be more tolerable but most of the warts are still there and it's even longer now.

    So I doubt a "JJ Cut" exists in a truly formed watchable form but there is a rough cut they could call a "JJ cut" to sow discord. And even then I doubt it drastically changes the movie but perhaps makes some elements easier to take.
     
    #48 RoyleRancor, May 12, 2020
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  9. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Posts:
    557
    Likes Received:
    1,101
    Trophy Points:
    5,742
    Credits:
    1,578
    Ratings:
    +1,448 / 3 / -0
    Yeah, I’d be curious about that, too. It’s very possible that these reports were blown out of proportion and J.J.’s version of the film is just a longer version of what we actually got with minimal changes. However, I think it’s extremely suspicious that the information about it came from reliable leakers, and that The Rise of Skywalker ended up being the only film in this trilogy to not have any deleted scenes or bonus content released.

    If the Duel of the Fates script leaked in its entirety, I suppose it’s entirely plausible that some stuff from an alternative version of The Rise of Skywalker could surface online at some point, too. I’m curious because I know they’ve got some stuff that they filmed –– like the extended Mustafar sequence with Kylo and the additional Leia/Rose scenes –– that they ultimately cut. I’d love to see that stuff get released at some point.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    19,665
    Trophy Points:
    146,667
    Credits:
    18,025
    Ratings:
    +24,070 / 64 / -37
    That's a very good point, taking the marketing (even from the very first reel at SWCC) into account.

    But as someone who wasn't too terribly bothered by Palpatine's return, I'd happily take either.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,646
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,707
    Ratings:
    +43,295 / 189 / -99
    Right. Always a viable option. It isn't a binary like I presented but rather just to highlight they chose to make Palps a big deal...if they hadn't then a smaller Palps role can't be a disappointment.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,218
    Likes Received:
    80,324
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    45,869
    Ratings:
    +85,073 / 84 / -31
    There is a longer version, however it's called editing. Every film that has ever been made has a longer version. Why film fandom thinks there are these conspiracies out there with #releaseXcut hashtags I'll never know. It's like they've never watched a behind the scenes video. While there are no deleted scenes, where are you getting the idea that there is no bonus content?
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2017
    Posts:
    557
    Likes Received:
    1,101
    Trophy Points:
    5,742
    Credits:
    1,578
    Ratings:
    +1,448 / 3 / -0
    That’s what I was referring to. I guess it didn’t come across very well, but I was referring to the fact that it’s very possible the “different” version of The Rise of Skywalker that supposedly exists could just be the unedited version of the film, just like how I’m sure there’s unedited versions of The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi.

    Typically, I think the #ReleaseTheInsertDirectorNameHereCut hashtags are stupid and don’t have much evidence. The only reason I’m skeptical about The Rise of Skywalker is the fact that several people –– not just leakers, but some of the cast and crew members as well –– have alluded to A LOT of stuff that was cut from the film, and there’s some pretty compelling evidence to support it online. One example is the scene where Ben dies. You can clearly see Rey saying something that was obviously edited out. Again, I have doubts that J.J.’s version was really as different from the final version as people claim, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were things in his version that should’ve been left in to improve the film that Disney chose to leave out.

    There’s an article out there somewhere (I can dig it up, if you’d like) that actually explains in detail that if The Rise of Skywalker was 3+ hours long, it would’ve occupied individual theaters for longer times, therefore decreasing the number of showings of the film that could be offered at each theater per day. Because of that, Disney thought they’d be losing money and wanted the film shortened –– which, again, is stupid because they obviously were fine with Endgame being as long as it was.

    Again, I suppose I misspoke regarding the bonus content. I’ve seen all the behind-the-scenes stuff on the Blu-Ray, but I think it’s really weird that there aren’t any deleted scenes included in any of the home releases of The Rise of Skywalker when there are a number of scenes that were filmed and never released. I realize not all of that footage would necessarily be released, but The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi’s home video releases both have deleted scenes.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  14. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,314
    Likes Received:
    5,814
    Trophy Points:
    15,317
    Credits:
    5,822
    Ratings:
    +8,758 / 34 / -9
    It’s also pretty weird that there’s no director’s commentary.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,218
    Likes Received:
    80,324
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    45,869
    Ratings:
    +85,073 / 84 / -31
    TFA's first home release released without a director's commentary, then a "special edition" cover released with one.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,314
    Likes Received:
    5,814
    Trophy Points:
    15,317
    Credits:
    5,822
    Ratings:
    +8,758 / 34 / -9
    Kind of my thinking. The classic double-dip, bilking model. Get the customer to pay twice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,646
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,707
    Ratings:
    +43,295 / 189 / -99
    Is it a JJ thing perhaps? Maybe he doesn't like doing it.
    RJ went whole hog into the special features.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    871
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    1,649
    Ratings:
    +2,188 / 105 / -32
    There is no "JJ Cut" of The Rise of Skywalker.

    Full Stop.

    "Rumors" of such a version of the movie are BS clickbait made up by haters to try and garner attention for themselves.

    The movie as released in theaters is exactly the film that Abrams wanted audiences to see, and the lack of in-depth detail regarding certain elements of the plot was, for better or worse, entirely his decision and the decision of his editors.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Cute Cute x 1
  19. Son Of A Sith

    Son Of A Sith Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2017
    Posts:
    116
    Likes Received:
    840
    Trophy Points:
    6,542
    Credits:
    1,287
    Ratings:
    +1,005 / 11 / -6

    Luke-Everything-Wrong.gif



    "Ride the Tide"

    -SOAS
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Clouded Clouded x 2
  20. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Posts:
    871
    Likes Received:
    1,369
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    1,649
    Ratings:
    +2,188 / 105 / -32
    ^ Nothing that I said is wrong.

    JJ Abrams himself is one of the executives who, according to the "JJ Cut" conspiracy mongerers, supposedly took control of the film away from him.

    You can't take control of a film away from yourself, and we furthermore have people directly linked to JJ who heavily and unequivocally debunked this whole "JJ Cut" nonsense.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Cute Cute x 1
Loading...

Share This Page