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Did Luke die, or choose to become one with the Force?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Sparafucile, May 18, 2018.

  1. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    I've read several posts that show different interpretations to what we've seen in TLJ.

    Luke's projection gets struck by Kylo's lightsaber, and his real self clutches his chest where he was struck. Kylo also mentions when Force Skyping that it was dangerous and that one can affect another by this means.

    But then I often read that fans believe Luke wasn't mortally wounded and chose to ascend into the Force.

    Which do you think it is?

    Did Luke move peacefully into the Force due to him being struck? Or was he fine and just chose to join the force? Or something else?
     
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  2. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    He died.

    It is not the wisiest decision to decide to make one with the Force while the galaxy is at its darkest time and your friends are in a lone ship to lead the fight.

    But it could be a path Jake Skywalker can follow.
     
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  3. Hunin

    Hunin Rebel General

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    I don't quite buy that the sword somehow killed him through the projection.
    The only reaction we get during the stabing is him being very attentive to Kylo figuring out what is actually going on.

    I figure he was going to kill himself at the beginning of the film (severed from the force and therefor a mortal death) and decided to do so again
    before Yoda intervenes.
    He then does his best to help the resistance in an act he is fully aware will likely take all his strength and life force (which is what Kylo says: "The efford would kill you").
    He sacrifices himself and is completely at peace with that decision (both Rey and Leia feel the later part).

    That said, there are hints that these new force connections of matter in different physical places do go both ways (the rain drops on Kylo's glove).
    Maybe its all of these things combined, but the actual dramatic framework works around a willing sacrifice by someone fully aware of the consequences.
     
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  4. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Kylo Ren: "You aren't doing this, the effort would kill you."

    From TLJ novel:
    Luke heard the wail of the wind and the cries of the birds. He heard his own faltering breathes as he struggled to get up and the rhythmic thumping of his heart in his chest. He heard a familiar voice. Maybe it was real or perhaps it was just in his memory. “Let go, Luke.” He did and his body faded away. Leaving the ledge empty in the spot where he had been. The Force rippled and shivered but a moment later this disturbance was lost in countless other currents of an autumn evening on the island…

    Luke chose to die.
     
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  5. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Yeah, I think there was definitely a strenuous component to the force projection, but I imagine that if he wanted to Luke probably could've kept himself from dying (ironic, he died much in the same way his mother did).

    But yeah, the entire movie is about Luke passing on his legacy and becoming the legend that the galaxy needs him to be (as well as personally reconciling with himself the need for that legend). In the end, I think we can assume that he understood that his death would benefit the galaxy. So the whole "why would he abandon the Resistance in its greatest moment of need" is pretty much the same as "why did Kenobi allow himself to die during the Rebellion's darkest hour".

    Both saw their role as something more than simply a soldier, and that is far more jedi-like than most anything we see in the prequels.
     
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  6. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    He ascended. Rian Johnson specifically mentioned that there was more that Luke could offer to the story of Episode IX if he wasn't just confined to a specific location like the Millennium Falcon. This basically spells out that he can teleport basically anywhere to contact multiple characters in his vision of the story for Episode IX, and as we all know from watching the scene with Yoda in The Last Jedi, Force Spirits are capable of not only using Force powers, but carrying physical objects as well (so yeah, there's still a chance for him to use the green lightsaber at a point that isn't a flashback).

    He can't really show up anywhere if he's not a Force Spirit; even though this movie did show him projecting himself with the Force, it also showed that projecting himself across virtually the entire diameter of the GFFA was lethal. Plus, I figure that having Luke around and doing at least one Gandalf the White-type thing in the movie will be enough for people who say "I'M DUN WIT STER WERZ 5EVAR" (let's be honest, most of them aren't) to at least begrudgingly watch the next movie.
     
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  7. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    There's a hate thread for that kind of content... anyway, yes he choose to go out on his own terms. We know this, because Kylo said "doing this will kill you." But he did in way by being a symbol of hope again instead of a tragic figure.
     
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  8. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    He was never on Achtoo.
     
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  9. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Rebel Official

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    I don't think Luke chose to become one with the force. I think he just died. Look at it this way. The Resistance is literally down to barely anything and after being lectured to by yoda and then confronting Kylo on crait through his projection -- he felt redeemed. Therefore if he can survive, he's going to and try and help the resistance rebuild and find allies. And of course help Rey learn the force more. Luke's now a redeemed man and he's willing to get back in the fight at this part of the film.

    But, that force projection obviously requires so much focus and energy that it takes a huge toll on the Physical body. So if the resistance is too slow to escape then he's probably going to die As he is willing to keep the projection going as long as it takes for them to get the hell on the Falcon.
    I think Luke wanted to survive but he knew the risk of projecting himself and how his body would perhaps not withstand it



    [​IMG]

    When he knows they are on the falcon he lets go of the projection and falls, and this look right here is a look that shows his sadness but realization that he's exerted so much of himself that his body's lost it's strength to keep going. The projection lasted too long for him to be able to regain his body's health and his physical self is shutting down
    [​IMG]
    Out of pride for himself I believe he forced himself to get on the rock and look out to the suns as his body gave out. He muscled his way up and now he's resigned to his fate as he lets his last gaze be out into the sky. Then he is gone.
    [​IMG]
    Luke knew the danger. Luke knew it was a necessary thing he had to do. He was willing to die if he had to for the resistance's survival, but he would certainly try to hold on if he could once the projection was released. But the projection was just several minutes too long and it was too much on his body. So he waited for the force to take him as his body was done.

    That's what I see it as
    --- Double Post Merged, May 19, 2018, Original Post Date: May 19, 2018 ---
    I think he was trying to hold on and recover but that voice saying "Let go Luke" was obviously Obi Wan saying he needs to trust the force and not try and go against it. And the force was not able to heal his body at this point. And so he stopped trying to stay physically as he knew it was pointless. His body was done and he was going to eventually pass in minutes. So he could either hold on stubbornly or go now. And he went. That's what I think.
     
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  10. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Peace and purpose. Luke lets go. I suspect that Luke dying in 8 was part of a loose plan for some of the reasons already mentioned. This allows Luke to pop in whenever they want and not make him a tag a long character. With Luke in the picture we're always waiting for him to come rescue our new heroes (Yoda in Attack of the Clones).
     
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  11. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    I'm a firm believer in Occam's Razor, and initially I saw Luke die/ascend (however you want see it), BUT after some thought on the subject, I came to some things that warranted some consideration;

    Really, (IMO) Luke wasn't old enough to just give up and die, as his "job" really wasn't over...and he knew/knows that.
    Even the novelization doesn't specifically say what happened...at all.
    Luke learned to essentially teleport his likeness across the Galaxy, and while it was exhausting (apparently), he was successful,

    -SO-

    Perhaps he had theorized (but never tried) that he could physically travel through the Force to another location, and when (in the novelization) he heard "Let go, Luke", he just released the proverbial brakes and faded into the Force which carried him back to (for examples sake) Tantooine or Dagobah where he reappeared like the Terminator after disappearing, without leaving a trail for anyone to follow, and the giant ripple felt through the Force by those that felt it was only because it had never been done by a mortal in history, and the resulting "Force-wave" was felt momentarily throughout the Galaxy....which would make him the ultimate Jedi Master.

    I saw (in my mind) Luke die at the end, but I'm now not completely sure of that...and it's never been actually stated.

    He may still be physically alive...elsewhere.
     
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  12. ronito6

    ronito6 Clone

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    Yoda went into Jedi afterlife the same way as Luke did in the movie / TLJ.

    So....he's in Jedi realm known as "special guest appearance" now.
     
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  13. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

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    A few months ago, I would have said no way. I would have said that this would tarnish TLJ, that it would just be too obvious of a retcon.

    But now, with fan base still split, with Solo bombing at the box office . . . yeah. I would not be at all surprise if JJ comes up with some reason like this to bring Luke back. It will be a little clunky. Johnson obviously intended Luke to be gone. But Star Wars has always done stuff like that. Lucas obviously didn't mean for Luke and Leia to be sisters in A New Hope, but alas. Honestly, the return of Luke is the kind of twist that only could work in Star Wars.

    If you want to win fans back, bring back Luke. Ignite the green.
     
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  14. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

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    It was more of a metamorphosis to me. Nothing is ever truly gone.
     
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  15. Finn is a Jedi

    Finn is a Jedi Rebel Official

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    With how the scene is framed I assume that the level of power that was required to not only project himself that far away but do it for so long and to interact with others while doing it was simply too much and strenuous causing him to die despite not having any physical injury and he then ascended into the force like Obi Wan and Yoda, the question I have is when did Luke complete the trials necessary to become on with the force? Hopefully that's a story we'll get once IX is out and the 30 years-floodgate is opened.

    Now those teleporting theories: There isn't much that IX can do that would be dumber than TLJ in my opinion, but having Luke instant transmission himself across the galaxy would be such a pathetic cop out. The only way Luke should be in IX is as a force ghost guiding Rey and any other jedi characters and maybe communicating with Ben in attempts to sway him back to the light.
     
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  16. Chobbly

    Chobbly Clone Trooper

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    For me, I hope that Ep9 doesn't try to 'undo' TLJ but builds upon it. Trying to undo it could cause more problems than it would solve.

    Whilst some of Luke's journey in TLJ feels massively off (considering killing his nephew in his sleep, urgh), leaving it as Luke sacrificing himself to give the galaxy hope is a great epitaph for the character's life and work, although it was tarnished somewhat towards the end.

    I feel that in Ep9 we need to see the effects of that hope, to give Luke's sacrifice all the more weight. Whether it's as a battle cry, or just an inspiration, I feel we need to see what the impact on the galaxy was of Luke's sacrifice. Teleporting could cheapen both Luke's death and the impact of; perhaps the Force even needed Luke to die, for whatever it needed him for next?

    Now, with the exception of Kylo we have no Skywalkers. So, I hope we get to see Luke's ghost in TLJ, tormenting Kylo and offering occasional words of support to Rey. I'm not averse either to the 'Gandalf' style reappearance of Luke in mortal form for some of Ep9 if that fits the story, if done well. I know most people have strong opinions on the prequels, but if the Force created Anakin to bring balance, then Luke manifesting physically (and temporarily) for some grand purpose isn't a stretch, at all.
     
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  17. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    I think the effort killed him, not Kylo's saber, and I think he expected that to happen. Luke's projection wasn't like Rey and Kylo's bond, he had complete control over it. And that level of control required an immense amount of energy. Luke knew it and actively chose to sacrifice himself and become one with the force. Despite all the time he spent cut away from it. It's very poetic actually. He lost faith in everything, including the force, he turned his back on the galaxy, only to later regain his faith and sacrifice himself for the greater good. His death (for the greater good) was his redemption after the role he played in Kylo's turn to the dark side. He died at peace with his family, the galaxy and the force.
     
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  18. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel Official

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    Yes.

    I'm not sure there is some neat picket fence dividing the two.
    Either way, it is a promotion to the luminous and moving beyond mere crude matter.

    Do not mourn those who have transformed into the force, Luke has become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
     
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  19. Chobbly

    Chobbly Clone Trooper

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    Question is, in Episode 9, wouldn't it be nice to see on screen some of what that actually means?

    It would be a nice way of pulling in references from the earlier films.
     
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  20. Han Salsiccia

    Han Salsiccia Clone Trooper

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    This ^

    I've always wondered what Obi Wan meant by that. Was he just trolling, or is there something more to it?

    I just hope that it doesn't mean that we get Luke returning as a force ghost before Kylo Ren and knocking him with a stick - Biff Tannen style. "Hello!"
    That's not the "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" thing I'm thinking about.
     
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