SPECULATION did mace-windu cause the collapse of the Jedi order

Yeah he's definitely extremely stubborn but the Sith actually had a tightened grip around the Jedi and their abilities as Yoda and 'ace talked about in AOTC aboit "losing faith in The Jedi" by having their ability to foresee things completely clouded...they were distracted and pretty much Mace and Anakin had their hardheadedness as a positive thing although it was his downfall thinking he could singlehandedly fix everything .

 

Excuses, excuses...

Just because you can't sense the future doesn't mean you can't remove your head from your ass.

I reckon Mace blocked Anikin being a Master on the Jedi council as he saw him as too much of a rival, and his differing oppinions would have created trouble for him. Both could have used remedial Jedi code lessons.

The only thing I ever liked about Mace was his purple lightsaber.

 

He was probably scared of a repeat of Qui-Gon Jinn .

 

Yes, heaven forbid the order encourage anymore independant thinkers. They just labeled them defiant. Unlike Mace, Qui-Gon at least endevoured to put the will of the force as his highest priority, instead of prioriting the Senate and the Republic, and that created tension. Not saying he always got it right. I sometimes think the Jedi had clouded vision not because of anything the Sith did in particular, but because they had become fear motivated, thus letting the darkside in themselves. They started letting fear dictate their decisions, and they lost faith in themselves, that's why the were reluctant to train Anikin and elevate him in the Council. I think Mace's distrust and lack of faith in Anikin directly contributed to his moral confusion and turn to the darkside.

 

initially he did try to arrest him. Then Sidious quickly slaughtered all other present jedi and was doing his best attenpt at electricuting Windu. Arresting guys who can slaughter your jedi friends in 5 esconds and shoot lightning blogs around at will is not an easy task, all While being a dictaor. But mace did try though

 

I liked it better when Anakin was already Vader and present when Mace showed up with the Jedi version of the insane clown posse. Spielberg and Co cried about their fanboy dreams being ruined, then, re-shoots happened. For those that didn't know this, I refer you to the images of Palpatine dueling Mace while holding Anakin's lightsaber hilt. Anyways, the Jedi were doomed long before Windu got a wild hair to go arrest the most powerful man in the GFFA.

 

It's like what Doolu says in AOTC that Qui-Gon would have easily turned to the dark side for Dooku...but I think that Mace would have had an even easier time than Anakim Skywalker to turn to the dark side, but, if that were the case, then I think that instead of causing the Jedi to fall he would have been able to further strengthen them through teachings of both the dark side and the light side, perhaps even with the possibility of merging the Jedi and the Sith or having a "cease-fire" agreement with them like with The NR and The FO ?

 

Any of the Jedi could have easily embrace evil, given the right circumstances. Including the highly idealized Obi-Wan and Yoda. There was nothing special about any of them that made them inclined to give in to evil.

Mace was not the only Council member who had blocked Anakin from becoming a Master. He was not the only one who made choices on behalf of the Order. Nor do I believe that Mace saw Anakin as a "rival". He was the only one among Obi-Wan, Yoda and himself who actually considered Anakin as "the Chosen One" during "Attack of the Clones". Yet, hardly anyone else ever brings this up.

Around the time of "Revenge of the Sith", the majority of the Council's members were regarding Anakin with hostility, due to his friendship with Palpatine. And the Council knew that someone within the Chancellor's private circle was a Sith Lord. It's not hard to do the math.

And this leads me to my question . . . why do so many fans seemed to regard Mace with such hostility or negativity, in compare to other Jedi characters? Why do so many fans are inclined to think the worst of him, in compare to Obi-Wan, Yoda or even Qui-Gon? Why do so many fans hate him so much? I find this attitude puzzling.

 

No one gets any excuses. Not Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace, Padme, Jar-Jar, the Jedi Council, the Galactic Senate and also Palpatine. Everyone is to blame.


Some fans love to blame Anakin because he became Darth Vader. Some fans love to blame Qui-Gon because he was a radical who did not blindly agree with the Jedi Order and insisted upon Anakin's training. And some fans love to blame Mace Windu, because he was portrayed by Sam Jackson.

 

Please can you provide a link? I am really interested in the original scene!

 

Best write-up that I could find can be found at the old folks home where I used to work.
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/palpatines-lightsabers.50020645/

 

Yoda did. He was almost wrong on everything.

 

@JediMasterRobert: My favorite sentence in your great analysis:
".. as democracy steadily gave way to dictatorship, through a series of illusions and poor decisions on all sides of the matter,...".
You are mentioning developments here that are easy to forget, when it comes to all too fast judgements about good and evil. A lot of small steps and little wrong decisions of a society and the people whome they give power .. just to have some " wise rulers" who make decisions for them. Its much easier to project a lack of abilities to think, to reflect and to make decisions to someone that takes all responsibilities.. but at the end this one ruler just takes all his might for his own sake..legitimated by his followers.

 

What does that have to do with the price of fish? I'm not really sure what you're implying here? Samual Jackson has done some great work and is an awesome actor. I don't think anyone has talked about anything like that.

It's the character of Mace Windu we are talking about. Not the actor. And yes yes, there was definitely lots of blame to go around, but in this thread we are focusing on Mace. Who, for all of the characters' coolness and wisdom, still seemed to be too agressive and keen for a fight for me to consider him a model paradigm of Jediness.

 

What does that have to do with the price of fish? I'm not really sure what you're implying here? Samual Jackson has done some great work and is an awesome actor. I don't think anyone has talked about anything like that.


This comes from years of being a member of other STAR WARS message boards. I'm not joking.

 

I'd say it's even before Yoda because they pretty much relied on Anakin Skywalker once he was discovered because they were so happy to find the chosen one.

 

I never got the feeling that the Jedi Council "relied" on Anakin. Even after Qui-Gon told them that he believed Anakin was the Chosen One, they were not interested in keeping him around. Only when he had unexpectedly displayed his Force potential during the Naboo battle, were they willing to recruit him. Afterward, I got this feeling that they merely tolerated his presence within the Order . . . keeping him on ice, so to speak, until the moment could arrive when he fulfills his destiny as the Chosen One.

And I found Yoda's unwillingness to do anything about Anakin rather interesting, when he failed to sense that Dooku could also be a future threat.

 

i dont think that its his unwillingness because Yoda seemed to go back and forth about Anakin.

 

Not once have I ever heard Yoda express any real confidence in Anakin or belief in the Chosen One prophecy. After "THE PHANTOM MENACE", he seemed to keep his feelings about Anakin to himself . . . until the latter half of "REVENGE OF THE SITH", when he, once again, expressed his distrust.

 

Actually all he really said about the matter from what I remember was, "To a dark place this line of thinking takes us."