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Did Sequel Trilogy kill Star Wars Saga?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by KOBRAkon, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. KOBRAkon

    KOBRAkon Rebel General

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    When going into ROS I was very worried about how this whole saga was going to end. My feelings for the previous 2 sequel movies wasn’t good but each had their merits. I was so infuriated with TLJ that I wasn’t as hyped as I should have been going into ROS. I wasn’t the only one, because it caused Disney to abandon their entire plan for releasing the trilogy and trying to right the ship with JJ captaining said ship.

    I think this was part of the problem with the Sequel trilogy. TOO many chefs in the kitchen and they all were working on different meals, with different recipes and ingredients to serve a group of hungry fans all wanting the same thing A GREAT CONCLUSION TO THE SAGA! IMO, the entire trilogy should have been in stone BEFORE any of the movies were made if they wanted different directors/chefs at the helm for each movie. This way there would have been consistent storylines and plot devices that could grow and have meaning at the end.

    All this being said, there was a lot of obstacles for JJ to overcome in making this movie. He had to make a movie that everyone loved, to conclude a trilogy that had split the fandom and also worked with the story that got us to the sequel trilogy anyways! I think this was achieved in most part!!

    I enjoyed ROS more than any of the other sequel films, but need to watch it a few more times before I can rank it against other Star Wars films. There were some things that I didn’t agree with, but at the end of the day I can understand why those decisions were made (ie. Bringing back the Emperor was not something I was keen on, but I understand why it was done since RJ killed Snoke and a "Big Bad" was needed in order for Kylo/Ben to complete his character Arc).

    Overall, the storyline and direction of the sequel trilogy wasn’t what I had hoped for as a long time Star Wars fan. Waiting for over 30 years to see what happens after RotJ, we didn’t get the story that myself (and the Star Wars friends I have IRL) hoped for. Starting this trilogy at the point where Luke was training his new Jedi Order, Han and Leia together still and current stage of government after the downfall of the empire would help to set the stage for the new characters to take over. In that same film introduce the new characters of Poe, Ben and Finn; as they enter the resistance, join up with Luke and join the First Order so that there is no need to add EVERYONES back story in the final film. After that, the story goes how ever it goes, but at least we get the proper backstory from new characters early so choices they make in the movies are more understandable and also get to have some sort of sense of where the galaxy truly is when the new story takes off. I realize there are books and comics that cover some of this, but the average fan and casual movie goer are NEVER going to know that information because they aren’t aware that it even exists.

    IMO the way the new trilogy starts off and finishes in a way that isn’t consistent with the OT and PT which is frustrating. The success and quality of The Mandalorian makes it worse, since we are aware that Disney has the right people in their charge to make great Star Wars content. The ST isn’t all bad, but it had the potential of placing Star Wars as the greatest epic saga in movie history and it left something to be desired.
     
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  2. KyloRen1981

    KyloRen1981 Rebelscum

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    I think the breaking of the IP and the fandom is much, much more complicated than "the ST did it." Perhaps I am overly optimistic at this moment, but I think thanks to TROS, in a few years we'll be able to look back at the ST and say it was a great trilogy with some glaring flaws. Which is not bad considering the weight on this franchise and the fact that they foolishly tried to make a trilogy with no blueprint from the start.

    As for my optimism, I'm someone who uses recuts of the PT and TLJ for my head-canon, so .... maybe my opinion is slanted anyway :)
     
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  3. KOBRAkon

    KOBRAkon Rebel General

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    Phantom Edit FTW!
     
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  4. KyloRen1981

    KyloRen1981 Rebelscum

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    I don't know that one. For me I watch the Anti-Cheese edits of the prequels and the Anti-Cringe edit of TLJ.
     
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  5. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    Here's the thing. While your argument definetely has merit, they key thing is that you. like many others, had one idea as to where the franchise had to go, and yet it went another way. That's fine. But it doesn't mean that the franchise is "dead" or anything. I remember prtty much the same thing being said about the PT - that it was bad, inconsistent with the OT etc. But the franchise is still going on and in 10-15 years new fans would be complaining that that whatever will come out is terrible in comparison to episodes VII-IX.

    Still, I am pretty sure, that the ST would be reevaluated as time goes on, TLJ would be treated much better and TROS - far worse. That is why I pretty much insist they release an Extended Cut.
     
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  6. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Jedi General

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    No.

    Simply put: history has a way of repeating itself. Some people thought the Prequels ruined the series up until the last handful of years and now there’s a large group online who think that they’re great movies and the best part of the saga. The same thing will happen with the Sequels within the next twenty years.
     
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  7. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    Killed? No. Damaged? Yes.

    I know die hard, olde schoole fans that are giving up on Star Wars completely because of the ST. These are now people that would have paid for subscriptions to Disney+ and bought DVDs and seen future movies but now won't. I'm not one of them. Overall I think the ST was a misfire and that TROS in particular was disappointing. However, I still greatly enjoy the Mandolorian and have high hopes for the other movies and series that have been announced.

    I think that episodes 7-9 should have continued the stories of Luke, Leia, Han and Chewie as the main characters and introduced a new generation in the second or third movie. That new generation then gets episodes 10-12 to shine in. The treatment of the OT characters and what they did was handled poorly.

    If episode 7 had Ben as Luke's student throughout the whole movie and then showed a hint of darkness at the very end, that would have been better. Then in episode 8 you get the scene where Luke contemplates killing Ben and he runs away. Then in episode 9 Ben's real turn to the dark side but is defeated while remaining alive, like Vader in ANH. Maybe Luke dies while training Rey and his dying breath is to tell her to stop Ben. Then the new generation gets their own trilogy.
     
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  8. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    NO
     
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  9. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    [​IMG]

    I mean each trilogy has it's own distinct look, feel, and vibe. Each has there lovers, mehs, and haters, yet 42 years in, we are still going strong and discussing all of them
     
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  10. GingerByte

    GingerByte Jedi General

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    Remember when Christopher Eccleston, David Tennant, Matt Smith, Peter Capaldi, Jodie Whittaker, Russell T Davies, Steven Moffat... blah blah blah killed Doctor Who? Wait, what's that? The show's still going.

    Too bad we can't say the same for Star Wars then /s.
     
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  11. Philo

    Philo Clone Trooper

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    A week ago, I went to cinema to watch the entire ST in a marathon screening. Good way to judge the consistency and compare the movies. TLJ being different than TFA, I nevertheless started to appreciate the movie more, despite of some stupid, cringy, bad humor scenes. It was my second viewing of TROS, which I enjoyed as a fan but was according to me still the least of the sequels. Pacing issues are already mentioned often, also the cheap plot devices, but the dialogue seemed very clunky too.
    Overall the ST does suffer in quality from the way the different directors were handled by Disney, but I still believe they (the directors) treated Star Wars with respect and weren't just doing their thing to gain money. In any case, not every Star Wars movie will ever have the same quality. It could have been better, but when it comes to acting, portraying characters and the visual stuff it still beats the PT for me.

    And it's still in line with the rest of the saga, it still fits in storywise and thematically. Nothing of the OT or PT is retconned. The Sith immortality them, Palpatine looming in the darkness, the failure of the jedi in the past being a great teacher, it makes sense. People are complaining about the inflation of Force Powers, but what about the PT jedi jumping and flipping around as if it's nothing?

    Off course I had a very different ST in mind before it was made. You know, the expected stuff: Luke and his academy, the New Republic, Han and Leia and their happy family. But I wonder if this setting would really garantee a good movie or just be a collection of fan service.

    NO, this didn't kill Star Wars, no more or less than Lucas did with the PT. Some people call out for a Disney boycott and are accusing them of milking the space cow. Capitalists they are indeed, but if you boycott them, why not boycott all of capitalism? Why not throw away your smartphone and cancel your netflix account, etc...
    Why is it acceptable that Star Wars movies have flaws when they're made by Lucas, but not when made by Disney? Allthough I have no doubts Lucas loved his own artistic child, he had capitalist motives too.

    And the people who didn't like it, they can still narrow their canon to 1-6 or even 4-6.
     
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  12. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    During my lifetime (and I am 18 months older than Star Wars), the Saga was 'killed' multiple times. The very idea is ridiculous.

    The thing is people equate 'I didn't like it' with 'it's dead'. I am saying this as someone who liked TFA a lot, loved TLJ and was grossly disappointed by TROS. I could have easily went online and proclaimed death of the Saga because, imo, film failed to do anything meaningful. Star Wars has become big enough to accommodate all kinds of fans and all kinds of stories. Each and every one of them will not be a 10. The fans just have to accept that and find Star Wars that they like.
     
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  13. TK-1204

    TK-1204 Imperial Special Forces
    1030th General **** (Mod)

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    For every person that dislikes a film, there are others that enjoyed it and vice versa. Nothing proves this more than the prequel trilogy which, by the definition of many, should've killed the saga and yet today there are literal legions of devoted fans to what many called some of the worst films ever made. One would think the fandom would've learned something from this considering it's had somewhere around a decade to learn this.
     
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  14. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Ever since ROTJ, I’ve had my ideas as to how the story should shake out. I finally decided to accept the story of the PT, the ST and just enjoy them for what they are: more SW. I got 9 movies to watch now as I try to enjoy the good parts and don’t obsess over the bad parts.
     
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  15. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    No, but I'm happy Ben is gone...
     
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  16. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Nobody is ever really gone......
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Short version: No.

    Long version: No. Stop being over-dramatic
     
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  18. Clankershot

    Clankershot Rebel Trooper

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    My personal opinion, I definitely like the ST more than PT. Ik I'm a minority here but I liked Luke in TLJ and idk why some people hate on the force awakens. I just saw ROS tonight and honestly I liked it I really liked it. SPOILER


    I thought it was creative to make Rey a palpatine. And I think her building her own saber and chilln on tatooine was a good ending. It leaves it open for more expansion in fans minds and settles the galaxy again. The first order is done since Kylo is gone and the emperor is definitely dead now. And the whole galaxy basically came together to overthrow the order. Now its starwars so theres always gonna be the possibility for more stuff to happen. But honestly kylo grew on me as a character and so did Rey. I feel like that incredibles 2 meme. " starwars is starwars" and I've been a fan for a long time. I understand criticisms like honestly even being a palpatine Rey shouldn't be that adept at the force so early and like why couldn't luke stay physically alive for longer? But honestly I think the new movies are good and better than the prequels. Just an opinion though.
     
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  19. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 7, 2020 ---
    Hey, that's a quote from a film you don't like, cheater...
     
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  20. Messi

    Messi Force Attuned

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    Of course the ST trilogy is much better than the PT. And your not a minority if you like TLJ. A lot of people on this forum has TLJ as the best sequel, and some of them even as a best SW ever.
     
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