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Did Sequel Trilogy kill Star Wars Saga?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by KOBRAkon, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Brood Brother
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    It's been said here already numerous times, but any one project or trilogy is incapable of killing a mega franchise like Star Wars. There's going to be stumbles and misses, and surprise hits the like. Especially as they open the floodgates of content as they are currently doing. (Which in itself should tell you that SW is very much alive and thriving)

    So no, the ST didn't kill the Star Wars saga. IF anything, it hurt enthusiasm for that era for some of the fandom. But there is plenty of opportunity to right that ship. Case in point, see the response to the prequel trilogy, and then how that was "redeemed" with The Clone Wars, and eventually Rebels. The ST will eventually get the same treatment in an animated series or other type of spin-off, and we can talk redemption yet again.
     
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  2. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    If that was their entire aim they could have just achieved that by beginning a new saga. And not episodes VII, VIII and IX. And/or made something other than two prequels to the OT, one of which is named after one of the characters that George created. That's almost ten years and billions more dollars spent on doing the opposite of their "entire aim".

    :confused:
     
    #202 Martoto, Oct 12, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
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  3. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    Okay.
    SW meant a lot to me as a kid, as it did to many. Let's just say my schooldays were not the 'happiest' days of my life, maybe because I was autistic - not diagnosed until my 50s - and kids sensed I was 'different', which is why my friends eventually drifted away from me. SW was my escapism.

    As an adult, I suffer from depression and anxiety and found much needed 'therapy' in books and films.

    What I loved about Star Wars was I found it uplifting. Lucas himself stated he liked happy endings, which is why he refused to give Harrison Ford what he wanted and kill off Han Solo at the end of ROTJ. It was like a fairytale. Lucas admitted the story of the prequels was tragic but even then, he ended the trilogy with a note of hope - the birth of the twins, which ultimately was what saved Anakin.

    Unlike a LOT of SW fans I didn't mind the fate of the OT characters in the sequels, although I think they could have handled Leia better.
    I would have preferred them to have lived a bit longer, but they had thirty good years post ROTJ, and lived them to the full. Harrison wanted Han to die 'for something',
    presumably the redemption of his son and I thought Luke had an amazing story arc - and Jedi can always return as Force ghosts.

    For me - and I repeat for ME - as long as their bloodline lived on through Ben, they would never die. They would have been reborn in his children. Most of all, he was my favourite character and I wanted him to have a life. I didn't see him as a 'space Nazi' as so many did, but an abused child who grew up to become a damaged, confused man.
    I wanted that man to find happiness.

    For fans of Rey and Finn, TROS ended the saga on a high. They both survived. Finn would become Rey's apprentice and perhaps something more. Rey fans see the 'Skywalker' name continuing in her. And also think Ben redeemed himself by saving the woman he loved.

    But that isn't how I, as a Ben Solo fan, see it. I watched the last part of TROS where the only 'real' Skywalker left was treated as a kind of 'psychic' organ donor for a woman who felt nothing for him, never even told her friends she was alive because of him, and proceeded to take his name. He was then forgotten.

    For me personally, it was a terribly depressing way to end a nine film, forty two year old saga - with the ultimate villain wiping out the entire family who opposed him. And let's face it - is he really dead? He came back before, he could again. Anakin's sacrifice was for nothing.

    It was especially hard because I lost my mum in spring 2019, and when I saw the trailer for TROS, it lifted my heart to hear those words of Luke:
    'We will always be with you'.

    I thought he was talking to Ben - not the woman who they replaced him with.


    But...that is my personal opinion. And all of us are entitled to feel differently. As I said, for fans of Finn and Rey it was an uplifting, hopeful and satisfying ending, as Abrams said. For a Ben Solo fan like this one, it was the end of an era.
     
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  4. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Brood Brother
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    Amen.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    I know a lot of people think the ST 'demeaned' Han, Luke and Leia....but despite my issues with how it ended, I actually think, looking back at the OT, they remained in character.
    I've already described why Luke was in another thread, but Han and Leia's relationship was always going to be full of fireworks - look at how they acted back in ESB!

    They were complete opposites. Han was a smuggler, a ne'er do well, although underneath it he had a heart. Leia was passionately devoted to her 'cause' and initially saw him as a selfish opportunist - while in ESB he accused her of being so obsessed with the Rebellion she'd forgotten to be a human being.

    They loved each other deeply but in the end couldn't find middle ground, and the child of their love, who should have been that middle ground, ultimately is what drove them apart.

    The problem was, on seeing that their son was FS, instead of it being something to celebrate, it scared his parents. Both of them were emotionally scarred by their experiences with Darth Vader. Han didn't like the Force, he saw it as mumbo jumbo, to quote ANH.

    And Leia....was focused on rebuilding the Republic; again in character. Her 'cause' went from bringing down the Empire to restoring the Republic, and it consumed her attention to the degree that she didn't notice her son's 'problems'....until it was too late. As she said, her mistake was in sending him away, which Snoke used as a tool to drive a wedge between Ben and his parents ...'they sent you away because they don't love you.'

    I've read of child abusers who actually convince their victims that they love them more than their own family does....especially in cults.

    And I also remember reading of a famous vet in the UK in the 20s and 30s; he had a mother who although loved him and vice versa, was more concerned with 'helping good causes'....
    He quoted:
    'No one was going to spoil her children; there were times when we would have given a lot to be spoiled.'

    Looking back at the OT, Han, Luke and Leia's progression as characters and human beings were always going to lead to what they eventually became...whatever faults the ST had, it was one thing they got right. Except for 'Jedi Leia'.

    I can't accept that, I'm sorry, because the passionate woman who loved Han Solo and wanted a career in politics would never have given that up to be a space monk - and although she made mistakes with her own child, I also can't see that Leia sending him away when she could have trained him herself. That was yet another thing I hated about TROS.
     
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  6. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    This is what I'm talking about. Voluntarily dividing the fans in order to express feelings of being dispossessed at the expense of another group of fans. That's not what I would call escapism.
     
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  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Some group is always gonna be disappointed about something. It's the nature of the human condition. All things considered I'm happy with the ST. The last film was a bit of a dud, but on the whole the entire thing was more enjoyable than the prequel trilogy. I'll never forget the feeling after watching Attack of the Clones. The movie was just a mess, but I didn't think Star Wars was dead.
     
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  8. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
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    I enjoyed AOTC because I was in a theater in Manhattan, NYC with tons of Star Wars fans waving lightsabers and dressed up as Star Wars characters, Star Wars is alive and well. Let's all enjoy it while we can. This is entirely why films are subjective.

    EXACTLY


    We all like Star Wars in different ways let's not divide fandom.
     
    #208 Rogues1138, Oct 19, 2021
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  9. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    Of course we do, that's what I meant.
    Fact is, as a brand name SW will go on in all likelihood for all eternity; look how long Batman, Superman and X Men have been going on!

    SW will still be around long after many of us have 'merged with the Force'....:D(duel)
     
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  10. ManaraiJedi

    ManaraiJedi Clone Trooper

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    Agreed!
     
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  11. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Nephy watching the show....
    Cringe GOLD.gif

    Show runners be like....
    disney be like.gif
     
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  12. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    Oh, lord how I wish I could get the hang of posting gifs on here...:p:p:p
     
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  13. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel General

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    How was Rey used as a conscience of the film? Can you provide examples of this? Because I frankly don’t see it. Twice in TROS once with Finn and the next with Ren they both chastise her for her out of control behaviour and bad attitude. How is that being pure? And I don’t see any hectoring behaviour from her on par with Rachel Dawes. The only time I saw her hector anyone was in TLJ scene where she told Ben he would not bow before Snoke.

    Rey’s entire arc in all 3 films is about dealing with her insecurities and feelings of worthlessness.







    So I don’t quite understand where you are getting your points from. Please enlighten me.



    ???

    Poe went from wanting to be a hero in the TLJ to the leader in TROS. Finn went from unquestioning ST who wanted to shirk responsibility int TLJ. To the calm sober friend who came up with the strategy to take down the main ship. So I don’t understand how they regressed in TROS.






    Most of the film? I think there was one 30 second scene where Finn goes after Rey. That’s hardly the whole film.

    Right up to the end of TLJ and into TROS it was shown that their ranks were thin and they had very few people. Even many of the people they did have were pilots and technicians. The visual dictionary mentions that some of the people who joined them were academics.

    So maybe Rey is their best fighter. She is very strong in the force, and she also has years of hand to hand combat experience in having lived on Jakku and having to fend for herself.



    What hell did Luke go though? Luke spent 19 years living on a farm getting 3 square meals a day and being sheltered by his aunt and uncle who mollycoddled him. To the point where he whines about even the most minor thing like a spoilt child. When he goes to Yoda from training he whines about what’s too hard. Rey spent 14 years on Jakku alone having to fend for herself on the verge of starvation. And I am not even going to touch on the psychological effects she must have had.



    How does this fit the definition of a cop out?


    -Rey ‘stabs’ a man who was previously on the verge of either killing or at least maiming her.


    Force healing is part of SW lore:

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_healing/Legends


    Rey was able to restore Ben without being killed because he had a flesh wound and she was still in good health. Ben brought Rey back from the dead while he was severely injured coupled with powers drained by Palpatine that’s why he died.

    ???

    Luke tells Rey that he knows she is a Palpatine. But she does not have to allow that to define her. Because her character is what counts and that is what determines who she is. He then instructs her that she needs to face her fears.



    LOL! Rey didn’t kill Palpatine she just deflected his powers back on him. And Rey did exactly what Luke did. She defeated her own feelings of worthlessness/insecurities by facing her grandfather (with the help of the Jedi.



    --In TROS (as in the ST) character is what counts. You have the capacity to decide who you are. You aren’t defined by your blood or what other people say about you.





    You have no evidence that any of this did or did not happen because it wasn’t on screen. In the novelization it says Rey weeps over Ben’s disappeared figure. But we know nothing beyond that. If the story carries on the trajectory of the films. Rey will most likely mourn Ben quietly, rebuild the Jedi and in her spare time do everything to possible to research where his body disappeared to. She must know that it’s unlikely that he died since he did not show up as a force ghost.
     
    #213 Veronica, Oct 19, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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  14. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Holy crap I hate google docs even more now. JK that thing was tl;dr for my brain.:p


    ***

    Easy peasy to learn, crazyfelineladyoneseven.... would be happy to walk you thru step by step with pics, via PM. :)
     
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  15. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    Luke and Ben could theoretically still have children out there in the Galaxy Far, Far Away.
     
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  16. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I can say with about 100% certain Luke never had children. George was adamant about that and Lucasfilm isn't going to change that fact. It's possible Ben did, but I hope they just leave it alone. No more force children, please.
     
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  17. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    Ok, sorry about this, I accidently pressed 'reply' and now I have sent a completely unnecessary post to you, sorry but I couldn't get rid of it!

    MOD EDIT
     
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  18. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    All it takes is one cultist with a decent lab, one strand of hair or , a severed hand & we've got Luuke, LukeAnne and whoever else they want to give the eternal-Palpatine treatment to! No Need for Mara, marriage or G Walton's approval.... just stick to the current themes. Shoot, I WANT that now. Eternal Luke, coming back over and over to blow metal moons up, save the galaxy, say bye to dad, win, quit, and do it ALL again.... like Groundhog Day Strikes Back or something.:p
     
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  19. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    Possible, anything is.
     
  20. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Clone Commander

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    You know....the comics are featuring Luke's severed hand...I wonder if it'll turn out Rey really IS a Skywalker and her mum was cloned from Luke's hand...:p
     
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