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SPOILER Did Sequel Trilogy kill Star Wars Saga?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by KOBRAkon, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. DakFrost

    DakFrost Clone

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    Quantity does not equal quality. A market flooded with what amounts to bad fan fiction does not mean Star Wars is doing good. Disney thought that tossing the fans any polished turd with Star Wars logo stuck to it would be met with sycophantic glee. Too bad for them that the fans demand a better product. Hopefully they can correct coarse before it gets even worse.
     
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  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    There was far more quantity in the EU than now.
    There are 381 books in the now Legends category. And how many were good?
    There were about 70ish, by rough count, video games released before the Disney buy out. How many were good?

    Before the buyout, they used a scattershot approach and most people only remember what they liked so it doesn't seem *as* bad. Disney streamlines it to be one singular canon and it isn't what you specifically want so it's all dead.

    Again, you don't like it. That's fine. But to call it bad fanfiction is lazy and dismisses any chance of having a discussion over the actual quality with you because you just dismiss it as bad fan fiction. So there's no ground to be reached.

    I don't even like all of the ST stuff. I'm very hit or miss on the books. But to say it's bad fan fiction or Star Wars is dying is hyperbole of the highest order that really just reeks of trolling tbh.
     
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  3. DakFrost

    DakFrost Clone

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    I never said it was dead. That's your strawman arguement. I said it was a shadow of what it once was.

    Just because you like the Disney made product doesn't negate that fact that a large chunk of the fan base is either disappointed or has moved on. No amount of excuse making or pandering can hide the truth that even Disney seems to be finally acknowledgeing, that the ST was horribly mismanaged and terribly planned from the get go.

    Hopefully guys like Favreau and Filloni can help to make things right.
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    You call it a fact, after accusing me of a strawman...laughable.
    it's far from fact. You are seeing a leveling of the true value of Yearly Star Wars. Not a dissipation of fans. A very small vocal chunk is throwing very loud temper-tantrums.
     
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  5. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    Just thought I would put this out there...
     
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  6. DakFrost

    DakFrost Clone

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    Ah yes, the old "a very small vocal minority" claim. Is it that very small group that has caused Disney to publicly declare a hiatus for feature films and the relegation of Star Wars material to a direct to TV model? The same small group that caused a Star Wars movie (Solo) to be an official flop? Truly a sign of a healthy franchise.

    All is well.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Phil J

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    Your sarcasm is noted. There are many reasons why Disney may delay creative projects, not all of them relating to any vociferous group of self proclaimed fans.

    It is worth noting that the TV channel may have already been in the conceptual stage for a considerable amount of time after extensive market research after witnessing the success of critically received series on other channels like Witcher and Game of Thrones. Certainly, from what I have seen the Mandalorian is more like a proof of concept and one that has worked well.

    Also, from a narrative perspective the television novel is better as it allows room to tell stories, create overarching narratives, explore perspectives and develop characters in a way that would otherwise be inimitable.

    You are conflating correlation with causality. The kind of error that science articles published in The Daily Mail tend to make.


    I have a nice song for you to listen to: A Necessary End by Saltillo. The band of one of my favourite artists Menton3. The lyrics are apt.

     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Taking a break can be a healthy sign. You just bitched about them not planning things out, now they slow down to plan things out and it's a bad thing? See? They can't win with folks like you. You are just programmed to hate things it seems.

    Why is direct to TV bad? Oh that's right, because you are trying to diminish anything that could be a positive by calling it "direct to TV" rather than what it is, which is premium TV content like one might find on HBO or Netflix. You lack originality in your troll attempts at just blindly hating all things SW post-Disney purchase.

    Here's the thing about Solo: No one actually wanted this outside of a group of die hard fans. It was a swan song for Larry Kasdan in Star Wars and that's about it. It failed at the box office because it's a movie about a subject people (the general audience) don't inherently want more of. They don't care about Han Solo's backstory. He's mysterious, people actually like that. Mystery. Removing all the mystery doesn't play well all the time.
     
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  9. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Rebel Official

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    I don't know. All seems well to me. Guess it's is just want you want to read into things. Disney's acquisition of Star Wars is a long term investment. In just 7.5 years since the purchase, they have tested the waters in various areas.

    3 trilogy movies finishing the pre-existing content prior to purchase
    2 Stand Alone movies
    2 TV cartoons
    1 pay tv series (with more to come)
    2 theme parks
    1 Resort to open in the fall
    Video Game
    Various Books and Comics

    Seems to me all is well. Always in motion the future is.
     
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  10. Pizza Time

    Pizza Time Rebel General

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    There's no definitive answer to this question, it's different for each fan. Some may despise the sequels, others may love them. Some love the prequels, others hate them and think they ruined SW. The only thing I think we can agree on with these movies is that they aren't perfect. Love or hate them, they all have flaws.
     
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  11. Veronica

    Veronica Clone Commander

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    'The die hard old school fans' seem to be wedded to the fact that they just wanted to see a series with the direct off spring of of the original cast. Or as I like to say. The problem these fans have is not what's on screen, it's that it doesn't match their head cannon and the fact that they can't accept that. That's not exactly an objective opinion.

    I have been a Bond fan since I was a kid. And thought that when Daniel Craig was cast in the role it was an insult and the film would be a disaster. But you know what? I saw Casino Royale and loved it. Now..not only is it my favourite Bond film. But it's one of my all time favourite movies.
    Is Craig the Bond I am used to? No. Is he the Bond I have in my head? No. But I still love him for what he is and the story they had on screen. I judged it on the merits of what was produced. Not my personal whims.

    As a person who loves a good story and is mildly aware of the world of SW. It would be great to have a story that explored the wider range of the SW universe and the wide range of characters. But given the backlash of the TPM and the fact that (and let's face it) all the fans really want is Han, Luke and Leia we were never going to get a story that dealt with and explored the structure of the wide universe.


    I don't buy that.

    Harry Potter had 8 films with the same cast. And big as a fan girl of Rey as I am. She can't hold her own (maybe physically ;)) but she can't draw a crowed like Captain America or Iron Man. And the ST is only 3 films. Both HP and the AEG all spanned a myriad of films which were closely linked and released in close succession. Using the same actors in both film franchises. It would only be a fair comparison if the ST had been released within a 10 year time period from the end of the last film. So essentially the ST were never going to be that type of films.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 29, 2020 ---
    See for me it was the exact opposite. TLJ is a very intellectual character driven film (as is much of TROS), much of which involves either internal growth or matching wits and if you don't like get that kind of stuff then you probably won't appeal to you.
     
    #51 Veronica, Mar 1, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  12. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    giphy (11).gif
     
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  13. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    If you don’t please fans, you don’t sell tickets. Simple.
     
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  14. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    Surely if you do not work on appealing to a general audience with the fans coming a close second you will not sell tickets? I have seen numerous films that took great steps to please fans only to alienate the general audience and in some cases the fans they sought to appease in the first place.
     
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  15. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Rebel Official

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    Which fans though? There are many. If the PT and ST has shown us anything, its you cannot please all the fans all the time. Each had there group of disgruntled fans. Each had their group that loved it. Can't forget the general audience either, I feel they out way the "die hard" fans an bring in the money. I think CEOs , producers, directors, and actors realize this. They do their best, and move on to the next thing.
     
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  16. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    General Audiences dont get involved like nerds do. They don't care if a lightsaber is blue or a non canon color. They don't care what planet the Sith started out on.
     
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  17. Phil J

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    But the general audience is larger than the fan base and therein lies the problem. How do you appeal to people outside of your group without alienating the people within it. Tough nettle to grasp. Also, it is interesting to observe how 'fandom' has changed over the years from being celebrity 'cult' to a more scholarly approach.

    In addition to the star system, with its "picture personalities," directors and those involved in the technical craft of filmmaking are now also increasingly publicized celebrities in their own right. This shift means that film fans can align themselves more clearly with notions of film as art—and partly avoid negative stereotypes of celebrity obsession—by indicating their fandom of film directors.

    This aspect of fandom moves closer to the scholarly appreciation of film, since treating film as art and dignifying certain directors with "authorial" or auteurist status is a strategy that has historically characterized film studies, and that still retains more than a foothold today. So-called "auteur theory" was initially employed solely by intellectuals and cinephiles seeking to value film as a medium, and although it carried cultural cachet, it was also accessible enough for nonacademic audiences to appreciate (Taylor, p. 87). Moving from being an exclusive/elitist view of film held by French cinéastes, auteurism entered the US scene and became popularized to the extent that Hollywood incorporated its discourse into its own publicity. Auteurism is no longer just a critical approach, but also a commercial strategy for organizing how audiences may respond to film texts. Uniting filmmakers, scholars, publicists, and fans, the notion that certain privileged directors are artists has tended to create and sustain aesthetic personality cults around them. This type of "personality cult" also has been significant to certain organized fandoms, such as those surrounding offbeat, sleeper, quirky, and classical Hollywood films labeled "cult movies." These organized fandoms have tended to use auteur theory as a means of claiming to find artistic value within the terrain of independent film.


    Read more: http://www.filmreference.com/encycl...Fandom-FILM-ART-AND-FANDOM.html#ixzz6FVvK4YrT
     
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  18. Fearghas_Ajax

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    This is true, and the general audience turning into new fans drives the ticket sales more that the hardcore fans, imo
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Marvel wasn't that popular 10 years ago.
    Iron Man was a C-list super hero on a good day.
    Captain America and Thor were B-list.

    Yet Marvel made three movies that appealed to fans of those globally obscure characters AND to the general audience that then led into The Avengers which turned it into the most impressive powerhouse of cinema ever. They captured the general audience and made a generation of them fans. The financial stability of appeasing only your fans is...not sustainable. Especially if you want BIG movies. It can work for small films but these big tentpole films? They have to capture the general audience MORE than the "fans"
     
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  20. Obi5Kenobi

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    Have to disagree on the Star Wars/Bond comparison. It's apples and oranges. Daniel Craig Bond is a reboot. Previous movies don't exist in Craig's Bond world. It's easier to accept "new Bond" because it's not supposed to be the same person as "old Bond". If Star Wars had been rebooted it would be a different matter. It's a continuation of existing material, though. I can only speak for myself, but my problem is what's onscreen. TROS is a mess of a movie not because it doesn't match my headcanon but because it is a sloppy story, told poorly.

    Also, I mean no disrespect or insult when I say this, but you've stated that you're only mildly aware of the world of Star Wars in this post and in previous posts stated that you're not a fan of the OT so I don't think you can appreciate the frustration of those that are well aware of the world of Star Wars and grew up with and love the OT. You simply can't have that perspective any more than I can have the perspective of someone who casually watches Star Wars. Growing up with the OT and then getting the PT, which I mostly like a lot, the ST held great expectations for me but sadly was a humongous disappointment.
     
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