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SPOILER Did Sequel Trilogy kill Star Wars Saga?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by KOBRAkon, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    I think it's misleading to say that the fans complain more when they get more detailed answers. We would have to get no answers for anything first and then detailed answers about everything next to be able to compare. I'm not sure if that made sense :confused:

    I don't think "Star Wars works best when we don’t get answers" works as a blanket statement. It depends on what is being answered and what the answer is. I think @RoyleRancor nailed it when he said that midiclorians and the force was a question nobody was asking and didn't need an answer. Palpatine being dead for decades and appearing alive without explanation is a question people are asking and deserves an answer.
     
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  2. delph

    delph Clone Trooper

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    That is why I like Star Wars Legends, because fans can write their own stories around the Star Wars saga and try to explain everything that is not in the movies. It's a shame that Disney didn't continue. But I agree that a comeback from Palpatine must be explained better. I would have preferred to have Snoke as major enemy and Rey his granddaughter.
     
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  3. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    I do see your point. I'm probably going to stop coming to the ST forum because I don't like the ST movies, especially TROS. I haven't read the novelization of TROS, but through SWNN and this forum, I've read about it. Then I see something that further makes me dislike the ST or TROS and I want to vent about it. But, it's not productive and I need to cut it out. I sincerely wish I did like TROS and the ST as a whole. I don't want to discourage those who do like it. It's just hard to accept that a franchise that I grew up with and love took a turn that I really dislike. I like Star Wars, that's my thing. Everyone who knows me knows it. Not liking Star Wars is... unnatural. (emperor)
     
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  4. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Actually, I see this in almost every TV show these days. They write 1 season (and if it is turns out to be a hit), then they pretty much write the rest of the show on the fly. Homeland is a perfect example of a TV show that had a GREAT first season, and had no idea where to go with the show after that. Bloodline is another TV show with an incredible first season, and than it was obvious they had no idea where to go after that. I could go on and on of shows that start off great without having a concrete arc from day one. As for movies, I just don't see many compared to 10-15 years ago. I am not into Comic Book movies, or those stupid action movies either as Star Wars is the last franchise I will pay a ticket to see simply because I've been there since 1977.

    The problem with Kylo Ren as the villain is that it made no sense in the context of the Skywalker Saga. Once they decided to make 7,8,9 the final arc of the Skywalker Saga, it would be odd to have a Skywalker as the main villain at the end of the story?
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2020, Original Post Date: Mar 7, 2020 ---
    We can agree to disagree. :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 7, 2020 ---
    I'll give you my perspective regarding the PT. For years and years, I felt the same way that you did about the ST. I can make a list of things that frustrated me, and how I feel Lucas dropped the ball. But the light clicked on one day a few years ago in that I realized that I enjoyed the Macro story of the PT. The Anakin/Padme story still frustrates me, but the Palpatine/Empire/Jedi Order, Republic Macro Story is where I focus when I watch the movies, and it actually sets up 4,5,6,7,8,9 cause it gives the galaxy a context. The PT doesn't resonate with me on an emotional level like the OT and the ST do simply because the characters never worked for me. But to see the Republic in it's full glory, the rise of Palpatine, and the whole galaxy in action, it really helps when the story gets more personal in the OT and ST. I would say if you can find something like that in the ST, then maybe you will change your opinion the way I did towards the PT. I get that you hate, that you hate the ST, cause we're all fans that want to love all of the movies. But I try to focus on the good of the movies, and 'live' with the bad, and it works for me now as I enjoy the 1-9 story. Of course the OT is the best and nothing comes close, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the PT and ST for what they are.
     
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  5. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    I hope my opinion of the ST will change over time. I could watch Daisy Ridley play Rey 24/7. She did great in that role. I liked Adam Driver a lot too. Finn was a very likable character. There are things I like, just more that I don't. I'll give it a few years and try it again. Always in motion, future... (yoda 2)
     
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  6. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    But there is no problem really. In TROS, Kylo could have been a great main villain. On the one hand he would want to reshape the galaxy in a new way (let the past die), but he's doing it in a hatefuel and cruel way because he doesn't know anything else. On the other hand he's obsessed with finding Rey. He's burning all the FO resources. Hux (and even maybe Pryde) doesn't like this it all, he wants Ren gone. So, he betrays him and Hux becomes Supreme Leader himself. Now Kylo is all lost, he has to come together with Rey to stop Hux's FO.
    By the help of this we would have seen both- Kylo as main villain and Ben as a hero. It's that easy and much more Star Warsy than bringing back dead enemies.

    This whole scene of Palpatine throwing down Ben into an abyss really represents what Disney/LF did to Kylo. He had so much potential, but they just threw him away, so Rey can save the day. It's odd to have the Skywalker saga end without a Skywalker.
     
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  7. delph

    delph Clone Trooper

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    Absolutely. Kylo could have been a jedi, becoming the first sith to change into a jedi. Without bothering Palpatine again, Kylo, Hux and Snoke were more than enough to build a new story based on vaillains.
    Or, why destroy the new republic in the first movie in a couple of minutes? I would have preferred to have a final battle between the repubblic and the new order in the third movie.
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    largely because the story is more dramatic if you show the "good guys" in a deficit to start. If they start off in power and stay in power, then it feels moot. Like, okay, so we're right where we started. Or if they lose in the third act, then you started another series not ended one and they all just seem incompetent...like in ROTS (which was the point but still)
     
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  9. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    I think they still could have kept the New Republic in power but have it be a war movie between two galactic powers. Instead they hit the reset button and made it The Alliance to Restore the Republic again. It was rebels vs. empire right away. That was one of the things I disliked about TFA. Everything the OT worked towards was undone in a matter of minutes and we were back at ANH's setup again. I think it would have been cooler to see The New Republic vs. The First Order instead of the small, outnumbered rebels against the hugely powerful empire, again.
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Everything the OT did wasn't undone until TROS when they said "Lol jk he aint dead and he was behind it the whole time"
    Before that it was just a different group. It happens when there is a power vacuum. it made sense for there to be instability in the government allowing a bad group like the FO to rise. this is basically what happened between WW1 and WW2. Or look at how the US essentially aided the taliban to power in the mideast...oops...
     
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  11. delph

    delph Clone Trooper

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    Correct, infact empire vs resistante like you said is something that we have seen in the past. I would have preferred something different like a final battle between republic and empire in the third movie and republic wins. And to be honest, in the sequel trilogy the resistance is not doing much because almost everyone is killed by the end of TLJ. We only see the rebels escaping from the new order and that's it. It's not something enjoyable to be honest. In the ST we don't see any great battles like OT or PT. There is nothing that remains in your mind. Are we in Star Wars or not?
     
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  12. Craig W. Chenery

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    I don't feel it killed the saga, I loved the ST, but after tRoS ended, it didn't feel like it offered anything that RotJ hadn't already done. It felt like an extra chapter to a book that had already ended. We can go round and round about what changes their should have been, but I felt it wrapped up the trilogy, not the saga.
     
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  13. Sierra217

    Sierra217 Rebelscum

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    This is a great way to describe the ST, it's a tacked on chapter that wasn't necessary. I play video games, and to me the ST felt like a DLC side story rather than a legit sequel to the OT. It didn't really add anything new and copies a lot from the "Main" source material.
     
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  14. Craig W. Chenery

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    DLC, that's perfect! Great taken at face value, but mostly adds little to the core story.
     
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  15. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    I kek'd when I found THIS:
    upload_2020-3-12_16-10-3.png
    Not sure if it helps.





    This post contains sarcasm.
     
  16. Rebel on Toprawa

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    I swear sequel trilogy fans needs to stop believing in the bull crap that the stand-alone films had fan-service while episodes VII, VIII & IX did not. In the force awakens you had the Millennium Falcon, Han & Chewie, Luke & Leia, the holo-chess game, X-Wings, etc. You sure as hell did NOT have an original story and compelling characters in that flick. At least in Rogue One Jyn has a backstory and she goes from selfish criminal to selfless Rebel who sacrifices herself for the cause.
     
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  17. Embo and His Pet Anooba

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    Has anybody talked about the Holdo Manuever yet? It’s one of the reasons I have discarded canon post Rotj and replaced it with legends. I know Rian Johnson gave a terrible excuse that the Raddus had an experimental shield, but you could see on hux’s face that he knew what was going to happen when the Raddus was pointed at them.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2020 at 4:22 PM, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2020 at 4:17 PM ---
    The force awakens was good, it really captured the magic in my eyes. However, the problem is mainly TLJ and ROS
    just because of their plot holes and some unforgivable things like THE HOLDO MANEUVER!!!!!
     
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  18. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I take a more broad outlook on this topic, and I think Disney missed an opportunity by tying 7,8,9 with 1-6. I think they could have still used Episode 7 timeframe, but rebooted a new story that wasn't locked into the PT/OT arc. I firmly believed back in 2013 that Luke, Leia and Han should have had cameos in Episode 7 (give the fans one more nostalgia trip) and that's it. They should have focused on their offspring and just continue to make more movies that occurred 30 years later. There was no need to put themselves in a box by saying Episode 7,8,9 or the Sequel Trilogy. Just say Episode 7 and it's the continuing adventures in a GFFA. Maybe they make 4-5 movies with the new cast and we are all waiting for Episode 10 next year? They should have used the Skywalker Offspring as the main characters (you could have 4 lead Skywalker/Solo kids from Han/Leia and Luke/Wife all with different personalities) and they drive the story. You would have a new war that doesn't relate to the Rebels vs Empire, a new villain that isn't in league with Palpatine, and just a brand new story. That way it would have been an easier sell as every new movie was a new episode #, Episode 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, etc. They literally wrote themselves in a box on the characters and the story and 5 years later, there are no more movies as each movie grossed less then the one before!
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    No offense, but there's a 0% chance they could have just made those movies and only given Han, Luke and Leia cameos without the fans melting the Blast down
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2020 at 8:42 PM, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2020 at 8:41 PM ---
    Why, exactly, is the Holdo Maneuver unforgivable?
    Especially when you claim you replace it with Legends, which has instances of thing far worse than anything in the new films.
     
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  20. Embo and His Pet Anooba

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    Read my Critiques thread.
    And yes, legends has some terrible moments like the Crystal Star but in my eyes, they are still better than the problems created by Holdo Manuever
     
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