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SPECULATION Did Snoke Force drain Luke?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Sep 17, 2016.

  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    For some time now I have held the view that Luke has lost his powers.
    The starting point for this theory was that I felt Luke hiding out on Ahch-To whilst his friends and the galaxy suffered, didn't seem right. So why would Luke reside on such a place, hidden from the galaxy?
    My assumption is that he has lost his power (being stranded doesn't add up to me as it would be too coincidental alongside secretly searching for the planet).

    For me, the reason for doing this is two fold.
    Firstly, it prevents Luke from being an all-powerful God-like figure who could easily destroy the bad guys.
    Secondly, it explains why there is an awakening when Rey uses the (cosmic) Force. Luke, for some reason, hasn't done this in a long time.

    Before I go on, some other back ground information is needed here. Firstly, Aftermath provides an interesting yet seemingly irrelevant piece of information provided by Tashu about ancient Sith powers:

    "Did you know that Sith Lords could sometimes drain the Force energy from their captives? Siphoning life from them using it to strengthen their connection to the dark side? Extending their own lives, as well, so that they could live for centuries beyond their intended expiration?"


    This then is as close to becoming a canon Force power as it can get. By why mention it in this canon novel?

    Now, in Aftermath: Life Debt we discover more information about the so called Operator who turns out to be a chap called Gallius Rax. An orphan from Jakku who was tasked by Palpatine to oversee the excavation of an ancient Sith site (of some significance 1000 years prior). Rax went on to essentially create the FO and it could just be that he is Snoke. But right now, my interest is in this Sith site. What is there? I have speculated in another thread how this place, which also had an Imperial research/weapons facility built on top, has some connection to Rey, her parents and her own Force power - but i'll leave that to the other thread. But what is vital here is that this place clearly had something important, a weapon of some kind, that was very important to Palpatine. (A question remains over whether this place was once significant and has been made so again or that there is actually something still there that Palpatine sought out).

    With this in mind let's think about Snoke:
    He's a very old being, who has seemingly cheated death and resides in a mobile command centre/post.
    Let's also consider the other device which he used to threaten the galaxy - The Starkiller Base. A weapon that drew in the power of the sun and then unleashed it. What if this is weapon is a metaphor for Snoke himself and perhaps the greatest weapon of all which the FO has developed, an ancient weapon of the Sith, a Force weapon? (Keep in mind how Kylo Ren has introduced us to new Force powers). One that absorbs the power of the Force itself and allows someone to wield it?

    There has to be a good reason to mention Force draining in the same novel series where we learn about this ancient and significant Sith site. And where we learn about Gallius Rax.

    My theory is that Palpatine was learning more about the secrets to eternal life and discovered a means, perhaps through excavating this ancient site or simply by learning ancient Sith teachings.
    Essentially Palpatine learned how, from ancient Sith, to drain the Force power of individuals and places. He clearly told Tashu about this. Perhaps he told potential Snokey candidate, Gallius Rax?

    So they rediscovered this Force drainage thing and then looked to weaponise it - so that Palpatine could essentially monopolise the Force itself. And so on Jakku they went about building this thing (maybe with the use of crystals - rumours suggest that Luke talks to Rey about crystals on Ahch-To). However, with the fall of the Empire, Rax wanted to take over this project so he orchestrated the Battle of Jakku, not to destroy his enemies, but to cover his act of taking the weapon for himself (the facility was destroyed by the Imperials during the battle).

    Now, if Rax is Snoke perhaps upon using this device it deformed him? Or perhaps he was already in a bad way? Or perhaps Snoke isn't Rax and one or two of these things happen to him as well. Either way, Snoke is someone that clearly depends on the Dark Side to survive. And he is perhaps someone who is able to drain people's Force power one on one AND he has a weapon (or is still constructing one) that is able to drain the Force from entire planets and environments (life creates it, makes it grow...).

    Snoke himself has clearly cheated death and if this Force draining thing is true I believe the reason for him using a mobile command centre is that he has to travel around to find pools of Force energy (or Force users) to drain and live off of (like the Skeksis from Dark Crystal). Is this why he wants Rey: "...bring her to me!". Is this what he eventually plans to do with Kylo Ren? And why fear Luke returning so much if he has already defeated him once? Surely it is to do with Luke's knowledge because the new Jedi will rise - Jedi with knowledge of how to defeat Snoke and his Force weapon....

    Anyway, some time after the Battle of Jakku, Luke hears about a group of people (inc. Rey) who were affected by this weapon facility on Jakku OR Luke simply learned of what Snoke had. Luke travelled the galaxy with Lor San Tekka and learned what he could about such a Force technique and how it could be weaponised. Then Kylo Ren, who surely couldn't have defeated Luke (on top of all his Jedi students) plotted with Snoke. They lured Luke away whilst Kylo destroyed the Jedi. During this event, Luke was attacked either by Snoke one on one or with this Force weapon. It took away his power and he was rendered helpless. (In Bloodline, Leia mentions how their last transmission was interrupted by radiation or something). Luke then, in order to save the Jedi Order, has to get away else his knowledge which is key to the Jedi's survival will be lost. He can't trust anyone to know where he is and so drops of Artoo and goes in search of Ahch-To. But why Ahch-To? My guess is that if this is all about this ancient Sith technique of Force drainage and perhaps this weapon links back to the Sith Lords of old, then Luke believes the answers will lie within ancient Jedi lore at the First Jedi Temple?

    The question is does he find it and send some kind of map segment back to Jakku where he knows Lor San Tekka is or will be looking himself? Or does that map show Luke's route at all and just something that Lor finds and knows will likely lead to Luke? Whatever...!

    This whole idea of course links into many other things but for now I'd like it to just be about what happened to Luke. Is this mention of Force draining in Aftermath relevant? Is this why Luke is exiled on Ahch-To? Does this explain Snoke's motivations, appearance and story? Is this why Kylo Ren thinks he could actually defeat Luke if he found him again? Does the Force tree on Ahch-To have a role to play within this (keep in mind the story in the Shattered Empire comics that mention Force trees and their power). Will a weak Luke make for a better story? It strikes me that all these new Force powers are being made canon for a reason and surely tie into the larger mystery...

    Discuss!
     
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  2. sls062286

    sls062286 Rebelscum

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    I highly doubt it. Pretty much every reliable thing weve heard indicates Luke is more powerful than ever
     
    #2 sls062286, Sep 17, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
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  3. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Such as?
     
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  4. sls062286

    sls062286 Rebelscum

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    Pretty much all of the MSW rumors. Luke blowing up a hut after hearing a conversation he doesnt like between Rey ans Kylo. Him completely decimating the Knights of Ren towards the begining of the movie then attempting to confront Kylo only for him to flee.
     
    #4 sls062286, Sep 17, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
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  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    @sls062286 That should probably come with a spoiler warning!
    As much as I think MSW are a reliable bunch one should take these early rumours with a pinch of salt.
    If this is to be believed it might be that they have gone in the opposite direction with Luke and made him too powerful - in regard to the safety of others/the galaxy.
    But I find that incompatible with a number of things from how the Force works to Luke's personality etc.
     
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  6. sls062286

    sls062286 Rebelscum

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    Sorry your right about the spoiler warning. Im just so used to the Jedi Council Forums where they have a separate board where spoilers are allowed.

    We dont really know the context of the scenes mentioned, so it's tough to say what works and what doesn't.
     
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  7. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Since the films are apparently pretty much about LUKE, I doubt they would drain him entirely of force powers btu maybe attempt to take it away and fail ?
     
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  8. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Interesting post. I'll be curious to see if the sun draining technology of Starkiller is related in more than concept to the Force drainig power the Sith discovered.

    Speaking of dis-covering and ancient sites, Rian Johnson did say he was watching Raiders a lot...



     
    #8 Moral Hazard, Sep 17, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
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  9. Chad_Nielsen27

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    It is possible. Mother Talzin had that type of technology during the Clone Wars. The difficulty is that the force is associated with life force itself, from what I understand--when Talzin sucked the force power out of individuals in the Clone Wars, they died. Pablo Hidalgo also mentioned recently on Twitter that the force is life itself. There may be more to sapping force wielding ability or a more refined way developed for Episode VIII, though.
     
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  10. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Well, early TFA drafts had a Jedi killer who sustained himself by eating sun matter. So I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of energy transfer ability is introduced in episode 8.
     
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  11. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    funny...because i remember hearing how the map was to find luke although han DID say he went after the first jedi temple .
     
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  12. Luciferous

    Luciferous Clone Commander

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    If Snoke force drained Luke then Snoke wouldn't be scared of him, but in TFA we see that he is. In the upcoming movies though this could be an interesting concept though. Luke is supposed to be the most powerful Jedi ever while Snoke appears damaged and broken. If Snoke is able to drain the force power from Luke, healing himself and making himself more powerful than anyone we've seen before, that could make for an interesting storyline.
     
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  14. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    He is scared of Luke because "the new Jedi will rise". He isn't scared of Luke's power (or lack of) but rather his knowledge that could create a new Jedi order that knows how to counter Snoke's power/know how to destroy Snoke.
     
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  15. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    true but that doesnt mean he wouldnt want to try to drain luke's powers so he cant train anyone else in case the jedi attempt to rise anyways .
     
  16. LadyMusashi

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  17. Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi

    Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi Rebel Official

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    I think it's more likely that Luke Force-drained Snoke. Snoke is in a pretty bad condition when we see him and Andy Serkis did say once that the guy is extremely vulnerable, more than most people think.I take that to mean Snoke cannot use the Force as masterfully as he claims.... Or he's only 3 inches tall like Meebur Gascon.
     
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    P1B5F Rebel Official

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    I do like the idea of Luke having to leave society in order to recover from a previous fight. I just don't think it would of been from Snoke. I do however like your thinking of Hux finding whatever was on Jakku and it was so powerful that it turned him in Snoke.

    Do we know anything in Canon or even in Legends (I don't know anything about Legends) that talks about transferring bodies? What if whatever Hux found on Jakuu it was actually Snoke, I dunno like a genie in the bottle type of thing, and once Hux found it, Snoke took over his body? I dunno if that would go into your theroy of him having to traveling looking for "Force" in order to stay alive?
     
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  19. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    By Hux I am guessing you mean Rax?
    I'm not sure about body transferring. I know it was in the Plagueis novel but that is no longer canon. I think that is likely too out there for Star Wars.
    All I know is that in Aftermath, a canon novel, mentions force drain for some reason.
    And it strikes me that Snoke, whoever he is, would depend on something like this to survive his injuries/vulnerability.
     
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  20. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    it's supposedly confirmed that he is somewhere like 7 feet tall .
     
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