Did the prequels change your way of seeing the Jedi?

I have to admit, I did have a vastly different idea of what the Jedi were like prior to the PT. I did imagine them more as noble knights. Not that they don't have a nobility in the PT, but it is much more tarnished than I expected it would be. The shortsightedness and occasional outright stupidity shown by the council is baffling at times. I know that their connection to the force was out of balance and clouded due to the efforts of the Sith, but I see that explanation used as a crutch a bit too often. Sometimes bad writing is just bad writing. So your connection to the force is screwy, that shouldn't outright erase your common sense as well.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have any flaws, as I like the idea of them growing complacent and even somewhat arrogant in the absence of the Sith. But oftentimes they are written in a way that makes them overly stupid and unlikable. You can still have a mastermind like Palpatine pull the wool over their eyes, while still maintaining at least of semblance of intelligence.

That being said, I still like them overall, Plo Koon is a particular favorite, but I think the writing could have been handled better in quite a few areas.

 

The Jedi were awesome viewed from the OT, but when you look at the Jedi Order of the Old Republic and especially the Jedi council( they were jerks to Qui Gonn of all people) the Jedi ORDER were in my opinion failures and the could never live up to the Greatness of Luke Skywalker,Han Solo and Leia Organa. The biggest stars of the prequels (espicially when it comes to acting)I think we're Darth Sidous and Obi Wan Kenobi.

 

Honestly the PT didn't change my view. Good ol' George wanted to convey a certain idea for the overall arc of the story and that was the fact that even in all the greatness the Jedi order had achieved they were horribly flawed. Blinded by their own pious ways, they let the biggest dupe that the Star Wars galaxy slip right under their collective noses! Of course i'm talking about The Emperor himself, Darth Sidious coming into power.

Now the reason this doesn't tarnish my views of the Jedi is simply this, it's only showing the Jedi from a small portion of Jedi history. Between the many different stories in the books, comics and new upcoming movies we're going to see the Jedi history expanded upon and their mythos brought back to the ideas of the Jedi in the OT. The fact that they were painted the way they were in the PT was extremely needed to make the Emperor's rise to power believable.

 

I think the PT was not a failure to the Jedi way at all. I think the balance of the force was was on their side right before the PT. You had to figure that the PT was the start of the rise of the darkside. Qui Gon Jin thought Anakin was the one but was basically the start of the darkside. in the OT it was talks about how they Jedi once brought balance to the force. I wish they showed the power of the Jedi/SITH wars. Even Yoda knew Anakin wasn't the one. If the Jedi had the future force wielders in their system then why wasnt Anakin one of them. There is alot of force wielders in the SW story that we dont see. all Jedi's become younglings to padawans to apprentice to(you get my point). i view it as that since this thread has open my opinion of the PT and jedis i just see it as the start of the rise of the darkside. and with the OT there wasnt alot but 2 JEDI's. and Luke didnt get to see force ghost til the end. Anakin was strong with the force but didnt actually succumb to the darkside. He died a Jedi with proper jedi burial. To me there wasnt enough Jedi in the PT since we only had the council and basically one learner in Anakin. the TCW series showed more padawans and how the Jedi ran through the ranks. for the PT, they showed more of the knowledge of the darkside and the OT showed how Jedi's were like you said "noble" and the RoTJ was the start of what we know now of Luke's failed Jedi academy. so now is still on the darkside but Rey is the start of the balance... maybe...

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 26, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 26, 2016 ---

agree with you I do. We dont get the whole side of the Jedi in the PT. and with the darkside the SITHs only peak with the rule of 2. One becomes strong and tries to dethrone the other. With Dark Sidious he just abuses the other to gain power within himself. So actually the emperor keeps the rule of 2 for maintaining power of his own. When Luke becomes strong he knows Vader has peaked and takes advantage of it. so now the powers of the force is technically balance cause there is no SITH or JEDI to take control. even when they said you need the Jedi to balance the force that means you need a SITH to counter. Kylo isnt a sith and Rey isnt a Jedi. just like the TCW series(which is canon) i think if Anakin sacrifce himself then balance would be stored.

 

I respectfully disagree my friend. If anything, their stupidity actually serves to take away from Sidious' accomplishment. I feel like most any competent villain could have pulled something similar off with how stupid the Jedi were portrayed in the PT.

I'm not saying that they should have been without flaws, but the amount of stupidity on display was just too much.

 

Good Gooooooood!

 

No, because they were an elegant age for what they were .

 

I defiitely see what Lucas was getting at - its the one theme in the PT that works in a more subtle way. They demonstrate arrogance and dogmatic thinking.

I only wish that Anakin's character was used more to point that out instead of the black-and-white dialogue he was given, especially calling the Jedi evil after he kills a bunch of kids. That's a bit of a stretch. If he was shown as the semi-rebellious warrior that finally reaches a point where he doesn't care about the Jedi (especially considering Ahsoka's abandonment and his undercover relationship with Padme), then it would have served the story way more.

IMO, Christensen's only strong dialogue came when he plays around a bit with the Jedi dogma in AOTC:

Padme: "Are Jedi allowed to love?"
Anakin: "Attachment, forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, essential to a Jedi's life. So...you could say we are encouraged to love."


That dialogue shows that he actually thinks intelligently and can be the smooth hotshot that grows into the rebellious warrior we see in the Clone Wars, and eventually comes to not care about his status within the Jedi, eventually turning on them.

 

Don't you think it makes sense that Luke earned the title of Jedi

i think it makes sense because the whole point of what I said was the Jedi ORDER was corrupt but the Jedi as a concept of people who help make the Galaxy a better place was a good idea for the Heroes of Star Wars. The order were dogmatic and close minded because they became so culturally comfortable alongside the politically decadent Republic. I also think Luke was a Grey Jedi or at least a new type of Jedi. In short I think they did a great job with the Jedi in The Prequels.

 

I don't see the importance of being "a Jedi" as other fans do. For me, it's basically a role or a position . . . and not a true identity for anyone.

As for my views regarding the Jedi, I believe my perspective was changed in "Return of the Jedi", not the Prequel movies.

This doesn't sound right to me. I'm not talking about Anakin's actions. I never had any problems with Lucas' portrayal of the character. I have a problem with the above description of what happened in his story. It seems a bit too generalized to me . . . as if a great deal of Anakin's story was tossed out of the window in order to criticize the handling of his character.

 

Yes, the dialogue switch to Vader was jarring and unconvincing, as many people who like Episode III already agree with. Anakin had plenty of gripe with the Jedi dogma - as he demonstrates in his subtle rebelliousness in the Clone Wars portrayal and his very relationships with Palpatine and Padme. But it's handled in a "get it out of the way" fashion, like most dialogue in the prequels. If he had actually stated those nuances to Obi-Wan - how the Jedi wouldn't help with Padme, or accept his attachment to her (true love) or allow him to end the war the way that he's capable of, and that the Jedi would break their own tradition just to force him to spy on the Chancellor - then it would have been a more satisfying scene. Those relatable gripes would have conveyed a heightened sense of conflict within Anakin, making it more tragic than - oh the Jedi are evil because they might be lying to me about the Force...even though Palpatine has been lying to me and the galaxy for 20 years......

 

I don't understand this response to my comment. I was not criticizing the dialogue or Anakin's portrayal in "ROTS". I was criticizing some of the negative comments about Anakin's story arc.

 

There are none regarding his arc. Rather, the arc enriched by the Clone Wars characterization and the novelization of Ep. III shows a better and richer character arc than him being mad about his mom and then mad about not getting the proper promotion and then about Padme's possible death (or rather, not learning the lessons about attachment). The Clone Wars and novelized Anakin supplemented the characterization presented in the films - which is a supplement many fans really appreciate.

 

Spot on. I completely agree with you.

 

There are none regarding his arc. Rather, the arc enriched by the Clone Wars characterization and the novelization of Ep. III shows a better and richer character arc than him being mad about his mom and then mad about not getting the proper promotion and then about Padme's possible death (or rather, not learning the lessons about attachment). The Clone Wars and novelized Anakin supplemented the characterization presented in the films - which is a supplement many fans really appreciate.


There are "none" what regarding his arc? I don't get this response. I find the idea that without "The Clone Wars" and the "Revenge of the Sith" novelization, Anakin's character arc would have been reduced to him "being mad about his mom and then mad about not getting the proper promotion and then about Padme's possible death" hard to swallow. I find it rather vague. If that is all you saw without the animated series and the novelization, then I guess you do. I just find your viewpoint hard to swallow. Because my idea of Anakin's arc is simply not reduced to that level.