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Did this theory go far enough?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Ben-K-OB1, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebelscum

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    A lot of people have been theorizing that Palpatine always intended to use Anakin as a host body but those plans were ruined when his body was roasted. This would explain part of Palpatine's interest in Luke. He just wanted to keep Vader around until he found a better model.

    Eventually, Palpatine's spirit ends up in a dark side enthusiast/adept named Snoke. This works well until he senses an extremely powerful person in the force, Rey, and wants a better more powerful host. He Hires Zorri Bliss to bring him the child but things don't go as planned and for some reason and she pulls a Yondu.

    I don't dislike this theory but I wonder if it goes far enough. What if it was never Palpatine at all jumping from body to body but actually Plagueis. What if Palpatine went to kill Plagueis and instead of dying he takes over his body.

    Think back to this dialogue from RTS
    • Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life. He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did.
      • He lost his power because he ceased to be Plagueis and become Palpatine when he took his body
    • Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep.
      • Pissed that his apprentice turned on him
    • Plagueis never saw it coming. It's ironic he could save others from death but not himself.
      • Again he could not save his own body and was only able to transfer to a new body
    I don't think this is true at all just think its fun to take the theory a step further. Thoughts?
     
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  2. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    For me, it makes the entire SAGA so much richer if Darth Plagueis was the one corrupting the Galaxy Far, Far, Away.... ALL ALONG.


    ***


    I hope JJ will bring back AnaVader to destroy his evil creator, once and for all.
    (If Plagueis didn't make him, the Force-Striking-Back & creating him from nothing wasn't all that natch)


    Sids already got chucked down a shaft, I want something MORE than just HIS return.
     
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  3. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Ehh...my theory is that, while Palpatine needed to find a host, all of that corruption would mean that he could only hold the body from people who were already dark side/negatively inclined and, even then, they would deteriorate, even his own OG body deteriorated as a reason, so he has been moving from host to host for a long time, "re-incarnating." While he might have grown up on Naboo, the Palpatine that was born was born of the most powerful force user ever, which is how the "host" took him over like the plague and the body lasted for so long.

    Once Palpatine id finally defeated, no one knows that the dark side user is so powerful that he can inhabit nearly any body. Plageuis was the master, but it was really the soul that inhabited Palpatine. Imagine if JJ went far enough to say that the dark side is one merged consciousness of "Evil," which spawns in any user who tries to become a true sith lord. Rey and co. have to finally find a way to destroy it and/or merge it with the light side to create one final form of the force with the help of the Whills, idk lol. Pretty much survive together or die.

    With Zorri Bliss, I do not believe that she "pulls a Yondu," but she has spent a couple of decades regretting what she did to Rey and shows Rey and inhibitor chip, which could dissuade "Palpatine" from coming back if they install in his final form in IX. Similar to the clone chips. They execute a special order from TCW era and kill the spirit once and for all with either rey or Ben absorbing all of it to die with it. :confused::confused::confused:
     
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  4. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebelscum

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    Oh, I like the idea of bringing back the inhibitor chip and the idea that the dark side is more of an entity that posses is great.
     
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  5. Lazlo

    Lazlo Rebel Official

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    Dark side possession would have to be done really well to work in the SW universe. I suppose that if Palpatine knew that he couldn't save his physical body he may have had time to "perform the spell" to transfer his consciousness and because Plagueis was killed in his sleep, he didn't have that opportunity.

    It seems like too much of a stretch to make Palpatine a Plagueis vessel. It would simply confuse too much of the general public. I'm still on the fence on this whole theory.
     
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  6. Perdu

    Perdu Rebel General

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    We have very limited time left to finish the story.

    That puts me in the opinion that JJ has to play within the already known parameters of the audience.

    As much as I like the idea of Palpatine being just another vessel for the greatest dark side user in the history of the galaxy, I find it to be too much to take in. The story is equally as compelling to have Palpatine be the big baddy himself - and this allows for the OT to stand on its own to some degree rather than being hurdled by a prophecy misread, a new hero, etc.

    Possession is also a known quantity to the general audience.

    Palpatine wishing to use Anakin as his host after killing Plagueis, his former master, and by using Plageuis' teachings seems like the best way to go, imo. Anakin is maimed to the point that he is no longer a desired host - epic fail #1 thanks to OB1. You go after Anakin's son, Luke, just to get your host body tossed down a shaft. Epic fail #2. So then you get the first person that is a suitable host (Snoke) to come across your sarcophogus/spiritholder since you are smarter than Plagiues and have a contingency plan just in case things dont go as you have foreseen. Epic fail #3. So now you lie in wait for all your deliberate, past machinations to bring you another host . . . and as the force whills it, along comes Kylo, the Knights of Ren, and Rey.
     
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  7. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebelscum

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    I agree 100%. While for me its fun to speculate about Plagueis I think the majority of people seeing the movie would be totally confused if the big reveal involved Plagueis.
     
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  8. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    If the audience has been paying attention, the Tragedy of Plagueis the Wise is/was the impetus for Vader's turn. All about power with Anakin and the PT was very consistent about the Chosen One craving more: in TPM it was the power to free slaves, in AOTC it was to protect others, "I will become the most powerful Jedi, evah!!" and finally the big WANT; the power over life and death. In the OT, Vader craved power over the galaxy and Kylo Ren mirrors his grandfather there for the ST.

    Finishing the story makes more sense if the ultimate Sith Lord has been right under our noses the whole time and NO ONE could see him. It makes the smirk on Palpatine's face in the opera house even more diabolical and the Emperor's hubris more sinister and Snoke's puppet status more understandable.... especially when possession is a known quality.

    Plaguies creating the ultimate body to inhabit and freely nuking Palpatine's in the Chancellor's Office takes on a different light.... because the body has been made more frail. On Mustafar, pre suit Vader was already scheming to overthrow his new Master.... till Kenobi karked it all up. lol


    Plaguies was introduced to the fanbase in such a way that his return would be a welcome surprise.

    Everything is in place, for it to make sense.

    2 hours is all the time we need.
     
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  9. Logray Ewok Medicine Man

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    I strongly believe the practice of taking over the body of a dark side apprentice began with Plagueis, and that the character we’ve seen as Palpatine in previous films was the spirit of Plagueis living on in Palpatine’s body (I’ve posted about this in a number of other threads). Plagueis allowed Palpatine to kill him in his sleep so that he could then take over Palpatine’s body. I believe there is some reason that Plagueis had been so obsessed with cultivating a Skywalker apprentice to serve as his host body, possibly because Plagueis is related to the original Skywalker, or is in fact the original Skywalker.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 16, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 16, 2019 ---
    You raise a good point about the general public being able to follow all this. I think one of the biggest challenges for this film is satisfying hard core fans and the general public. I’m hopeful Abrams can thread the needle and do both. You’re right that this theory is somewhat of a stretch, but I subscribe to it and think Abrams can pull it off.
     
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  10. TheDarkTight

    TheDarkTight Clone Commander

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    I think it makes more sense within the established story that Palpatine will be resurrected as a clone. We've seen him do crazy witchcrafty stuff in Rebels but not in the movies. This whole Plagueis conspiracy is too much to introduce at the very end.
     
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  11. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yeah... from a dedicated fan perspective, Plagueis seems like an amazing idea.

    But to fans, saying "hey, you know that villain from six of the films? He was actually another guy you probably don't even remember" seems like it wouldn't go over well.
     
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  12. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    What is the difference between a "dedicated fan" and "fans"? Askin for a fren.


    I mean: fanatical is, as fanatical does. Amirite?
    :p


    (This post contains sarcasm)
     
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  13. Porco Azzurro

    Porco Azzurro Force Sensitive

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    (Sorry this is such a long post... “Look at the size of that thing!”)

    I’ve been wondering where to post this or whether to start a new thread... but anyway, over a year ago I posted the following elsewhere... - before we saw the Ep IX trailer, or heard that laugh and were told Palpatine was going to be involved in the film we now know to be titled The Rise of Skywalker...

    I don’t know if anyone else has had similar thoughts but anyway, maybe some of you will find at least some of it interesting(?):
    (Timing note: this was quite recently after Solo had been in theatres, re “chopped in two” reference...)
    ————————

    (2018)... basically I’ve been thinking about a lot of stuff that we’ve seen in the new Star Wars movies, and joining dots... you know those join-the-dots pictures? Well they can end up completely wrong and not look like anything, or they can end up looking like something really clearly... well kind of like that.

    So I guess the headline of my theory would be: Snoke is kind of back, or never really went away. And Hux is key.

    Episode VIII created quite a problem in terms of the villains on the face of it. Snoke was the big bad but apparently was killed. Hux has been this half-crazed weasel of a character so far and there’s this one line I find particularly intriguing in TLJ where Snoke says to Kylo Ren: “You wonder why I keep a rabid cur in such a place of power? A cur's weakness, properly manipulated, can be a sharp tool.”.

    Now Snoke could just be meaning Hux is a useful idiot in a normal sense. But what if it’s something more than that?

    Later, Snoke is playing the super-(apparently over-)confident villain, in what seems to me to be an intentional reference to Palpatine’s over-confidence... telling Kylo he can’t be defeated and all that, just before he gets chopped in two.

    Let’s just think about that for a second. Chopped in two. Remind you of anyone else who turned up again recently? Isn’t that interesting?

    I’m going off on a tangent a bit.

    Ok, the meat of my theory is basically this: in Ep IX, Hux is Snoke. Hux becomes a vessel for the dark side spirit of Snoke, who has learned how to possess others and so cheat death. And maybe the ring is part of that - a way to channel that dark side spirit and ‘beam it’ to its new host? Isn’t it weird how Snoke’s legs fall down not immediately, but when Hux arrives? Seriously, re-watch that scene imagining Hux is now Snoke, it’s a blast. Is he playing with Kylo (who he seems ready to kill until he wakes up)? “Who do you think you’re talking to? You presume to command my army, our supreme leader is dead, we have no ruler!” Maybe he’s just manipulating him some more. Seeing if he will flourish into the new Darth Vader that he apparently wants. Poking him with a stick. A sharp tool.

    We know from official guides etc that Snoke has “at least one other apprentice”. We keep seeing Hux leaving when Kylo Ren arrives. Maybe Hux has been secretly learning some dark side stuff from Snoke, thinking he’s getting something out of it, when actually Hux is just being ‘tuned up’ ready for Snoke to ‘take up residence’, as it were.

    Hux killed his own father. Kylo Ren killed his own father. Both are now under the influence of Snoke. In the now non-canon Plagueis novel, Palpatine also killed his parents. Maybe this is a pathway to letting the dark side influence someone? Anakin had no father... what if that was something that gave him a way back? Kylo didn’t kill Leia when he had the chance to try...

    We have also been told there’s no plan and Rian Johnson had a blank slate for Ep VIII. I think that is mostly true, but perhaps a little exaggerated. I do think there is a rough outline of how this is going to play out, and I think the Snoke part is some of that.

    Going back to when Trevorrow was in charge of Ep IX there was talk they were going to delve deeper into all the Force Ghost stuff. The spiritual aspect of the mythology. There is (to my mind) obviously a lot of that already in TFA and TLJ - but where is it going? We’ve seen Force Ghost Yoda, are we going to see Force Ghost Luke? I think so. But we might get crazy and see the dark side equivalent - possession of a living person.

    What amazing slight-of-hand, if they don’t need Andy Serkis back because Domhnall Gleeson is effectively going to be Snoke in Ep IX.

    “Your Snoke theory sucks”
    Or to say it another way:
    “Your Snoke theory’s Hux”

    It’s just some fragments of an idea anyway. Could all be nonsense.

    ————————

    (2019)- so to update my thoughts on all that now - maybe for Snoke just read Palpatine, or even Plagueis?! Sure. Everything else about that works fine. The whole possession idea certainly seems more likely and talked about now as a possibility. I still feel like Hux is flying under the radar quite a bit as a character. The “rough outline” seems to have been confirmed, both about Palpatine always being part of the plan and them always knowing where Kylo Ren was ending up in the story.
     
  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I think it has to do with midichlorians
     
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