1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Did TLJ kill the tradition of fan theories?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by BobRoss, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    When I joined this forum the day after TFA premiered the message boards were flooded with creative and interesting fan theories. Who is Snoke, who are Rey's parents, why does the lightsaber call out to her, what did Kylo mean when he said "I will finish what you started", why did Maz have Anakins lightsaber, etc...

    I loved this idea of fans trying to collectively uncover the many mysteries JJ Abrahams had left us with when the credits rolled and the time for fan theories seemed to be at an all time high. For the first time in the history of a movie franchise a dedicated storygroup would make sure that the story of Star Wars would neatly transcend into other forms of media. Every comic, every animated series and book was now a part of a 100% consistent universe and the potential of this groundbreaking idea was immense. I was expecting the storyteam to drop bread crumbs throughout the comics, books and games to reward dedicated fans which were paying extra close attention to detail.

    Now, more than two years later, my believe that there must be some hidden secrets to uncover has vanished and most of the fan theories with them. There are mutliple reasons for this. At one point I realized, that the movies operate independently from every other media. They are the highest authority by far, they influence the comics and books but it's rarely the other way round. The different forms of media only overlap to a degree that is basically irrelevant. Luke's compass for example, one of the most important elements of the Battlefield II campaign is reduced to a setprop in TLJ which isn't even worth being mentioned by a line of dialogue or two.

    Another factor that has made fan theories pretty much useless is the volatile nature of the overall story of the ST which is almost completely made up on the fly and heavily shaped by the ideas of the individual directors. It is impossible to estimate if information in a book or comic is important to the saga movies since the directors are the ones who chose if they want to embrace other forms of media or ignore them. The ST lives only in the moment and doesn't pay much attention to what came before and what will come after.
    Without a Geroge Lucas in charge of the overall creative vision a disjointed and random series of plot/character developements no longer allows for drawing conclusions. Screenwriting has become reactionary rather than visionary and reached a level of subversion that extends beyond the story of the ST itself. We have reached a point when it's no longer possible to tell if a character or event is relevant or just a mere plotdevice and making fan theories about a plotdevice is rather pointless.

    I have always loved fan theories and seeing most of them gone feels like Disney has taken away an integral part of what made this fandom so special. Sometimes it even feels as if people are trying to push the blame on fan theorists simply for trying to figure out the story could potentially develope in the future. There seems to be this sentiment, that fan theorists demand their theories to come 100% true or else they will be angry and hateful. In reality a fan theroy is more like guessing who the murderer in a "Whodunit" story is. If you are correct you feel good because your predictions come true, if you're not correct you still get the enjoyment of being surprised. What could possibly be wrong about making your fans care so deeply about a character that they spend their free time making theories about them? Why would other fans mock them for getting invested in a story?

    The desire to find patterns even in random sets of data is a fundamental aspect of the human condition which is described in multiple scientific theories including one of my favourites, the Ramsey theory. Star Wars is known for the "small galaxy syndome". Every important character is connected to every other important character and we fans got used to it making the creation of fan theories even more relevant when it comes to SW than most other franchises. In a world, where C3-PO could very well say "Hi dad!" to Darth Vader, it isn't hard to see why fans try to find patterns like crazy. I'm not saying that the tradition of the "small galaxy" cannot be changed but it needs to happen to a reasonable degree and at a reasonable pace.

    So what happens if fan theories die out? Well personally, I feel like an important aspect of fandom will be taken away from us but I am aware that other people never cared about fan theroies and therefore feel differently about this. So instead of emotion let's talk buisness. I used to buy every comic, book and videogame of the Disney SW universe but after TLJ I stopped doing so. For the first time ever I didn't buy the visual dictionary because I felt like there was no useful information in there beyond basic descriptions of characters and ships. I no longer feel the need to read the comics or books, they are mostly irrelevant to the overall saga anyways. Disney had the chance to do something unique and motivate people to buy their products by rewarding them with bits and pieces of important information but they didn't. A wasted opportunity if you ask me. I'm at a point where I'm more invested in Rebels than the saga which is quite bizzare to be honest. As a passionate fan theorist all I can say is "Help us Obi Wan Filoni, you're our only hope!"
     
    #1 BobRoss, Mar 5, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2018
    • Great Post Great Post x 6
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2016
    Posts:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    2,585
    Trophy Points:
    8,842
    Credits:
    3,840
    Ratings:
    +4,404 / 293 / -149
    So if 75% of the fan theories want a Ren-demption LFL will make him stay evil?

    If 75% of the fan theories want KR to stay evil LFL will make him good?

    If 75% of the fan theories want the Rebels 2 win the FO wins instead?

    How bleak.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  3. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Posts:
    669
    Likes Received:
    1,524
    Trophy Points:
    6,567
    Credits:
    2,545
    Ratings:
    +2,688 / 76 / -50
    There are fan theories, and then there are fan theories accompanied by tunnel-vision expectations/demands. I'd be fine if something caused the latter of those two to be done away with.

    No matter how much of a Star Wars fan someone becomes, they are not entitled to having the story told their way.

    Let the storyteller tell you their story. You're not required to like it.
     
    • Like Like x 11
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
  4. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    17,312
    Trophy Points:
    145,167
    Credits:
    16,839
    Ratings:
    +21,416 / 62 / -37
    Ironic, I just wrote briefly about this in the "subversion" thread.

    I think in a way, it did. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, in my opinion. In the age of Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead, fan theories are slowly killing that sense of wonder in fiction. If there's a plausible, satisfying ending, it's highly possible you already read it happen on an internet forum. And I guess that "huh, that guy was right" feeling can be satisfying in its own right, but it's a far different experience than being totally blindsided by "No, I am your father".

    With TLJ, we can really have almost nothing to go off of, at least until the first trailer comes out.

    There's always the theories about Rey/Kylo, etc, but even with those characters it's hard to tell what JJ will do with them next. There's not even a consensus that Kylo will still be the primary villain come EpIX.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I don't think that most fan theorists think of their theory as the only acceptable version of the story. I'm sure there are some of them out there but fan theories are mostly about the "what if". The "if" is important here :)
     
    #5 BobRoss, Mar 5, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Posts:
    669
    Likes Received:
    1,524
    Trophy Points:
    6,567
    Credits:
    2,545
    Ratings:
    +2,688 / 76 / -50
    I agree that most are not that way.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
  7. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    71,286
    Trophy Points:
    169,417
    Credits:
    38,181
    Ratings:
    +75,645 / 76 / -29
    But fan theories have never been about being "right". Hence the word: theory. I think there is something to be said about having some kind mystery left for 9. Side note: I wonder what it must been like being a fan in the 80s having 'no, I am your father!" Looming over the franchise. Also, most people complain that Lucas had too much creative control and thus the prequels suffered from it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  8. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Posts:
    771
    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    3,992
    Credits:
    1,379
    Ratings:
    +1,490 / 213 / -149
    Making predictions is a part of life. What business would be successful without predictions? TLJ killed enthusiasm, and that's not easy to get back. Star Wars is not a political thriller. If Rian Johnson wants to do that. Then he picked the wrong franchise. Star Wars is a simple linear story.

    The real problem is not fan theories. The problem is the characters don't act human. None of us can relate to these characters, because their actions are so bizarre.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  9. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,846
    Likes Received:
    5,499
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    8,912
    Ratings:
    +10,212 / 457 / -128
    There is not many things left to theorize at the moment except if you want to waste 2 more years of your life waiting for answers you will never have.

    Anakin's lightsaber ?
    Snoke's identity ?
    Why Ben Solo hated Han Solo that much ?
    Who are Rey's parents ?
    Why Luke had a compass ? Why was he gone on the first jedi temple ?

    You will have no answers.

    You could have organize a contest to guess what line would be the first between Leia and Luke meeting again after all these years, I'm not sure many people would have say : Yes, I changed my hair ...

    So why wasting our time ?
     
    #9 Bandini, Mar 5, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    71,286
    Trophy Points:
    169,417
    Credits:
    38,181
    Ratings:
    +75,645 / 76 / -29
    That's why it's called a mystery...what's the point of going to the theater if we could all predict the ending of 9?:rolleyes:
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  11. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,846
    Likes Received:
    5,499
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    8,912
    Ratings:
    +10,212 / 457 / -128
    The brilliant thing is to keep it mysterious even after the trilogy ended.

    BTW, I don't see any mystery left after the end of this episode except who's broomboy but whatever.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    71,286
    Trophy Points:
    169,417
    Credits:
    38,181
    Ratings:
    +75,645 / 76 / -29
    Knowing who Broomboy was never the point of that scene...it was more the meaning behind Broomboy then who he actually is. Anyone can have the force, you don't need some super powerful bloodline to have it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    Posts:
    771
    Likes Received:
    944
    Trophy Points:
    3,992
    Credits:
    1,379
    Ratings:
    +1,490 / 213 / -149
    Except this isn't a mystery. Characters are doing things they shouldn't be doing. Leia comes across with no maternal instincts. Rey wants to save a guy who killed his father, and her only friend. Kylo's name is never brought up with the Resistance. I don't think they even know Kylo is Leia's son. How many would still help Leia if they knew that? This has nothing to do with mystery. It's simple story telling, and Rian ignored many things that could have given this movie some real weight.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Great Post x 1
    • Friendly x 1
    • Clouded x 1
    • Cocky x 1
  14. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,846
    Likes Received:
    5,499
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    8,912
    Ratings:
    +10,212 / 457 / -128
    I was ironic ...

    But you pointed yourself a thing, there is absolutely no mystery left except maybe with Finn.

    We know that he did sanitation on SKB, sweeping Snoke's ship but we still don't know where he was making the dishes.

    Talking about solid backstories there !

    You know, trilogy stuff.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  15. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    222
    Likes Received:
    503
    Trophy Points:
    4,072
    Credits:
    967
    Ratings:
    +651 / 1 / -1
    I have to say that this above all else bothers me. Why was Luke on Ahch-To was one of TFA's big mysteries, and even the film's cliffhanger. We were not told in TLJ why was he there, in that place in particular. I would have found to be much more satisfying for Luke's arc in TLJ to know why had he gone to that island. That could have helped others who didn't like how Luke was portrayed in the film. Maybe in IX, but I'm not holding my breath.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Buckeye94

    Buckeye94 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2017
    Posts:
    463
    Likes Received:
    921
    Trophy Points:
    4,167
    Credits:
    1,393
    Ratings:
    +1,483 / 42 / -9
    Kill fan theories? No way. There's all kinds of theories floating around already about what will happen in Ep. 9. I actually like reading most of them and I think it's sort of fun to theorize on what might happen. For the most part, it's a harmless thing to do, the problem happens when someone latches on too hard to their own personal theory and then loses their minds when it doesn't pan out for them. I'd like to think that TLJ killed that aspect of it, but I doubt it. No matter what happens in Ep. 9, someone's going to be mad because their own personal theory didn't come true.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,846
    Likes Received:
    5,499
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    8,912
    Ratings:
    +10,212 / 457 / -128
    The answer is in episode VIII, Master Luke went to Acht To, a place very strong in the Force to ... disconnect himself with the Force.

    Wise choice old man !
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    71,286
    Trophy Points:
    169,417
    Credits:
    38,181
    Ratings:
    +75,645 / 76 / -29
    As far as Leia is concerned, she's been a general/politician pretty much her entire life. What does she know about raising a kid? Also, why does some grunt in the Resistance need to know who Kylo really is? Also, I don't that's a big deal anyway, because the entire galaxy knows who her father is and yet they still follow her. I doubt they would change their allegiances now if they knew who Kylo really is.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    222
    Likes Received:
    503
    Trophy Points:
    4,072
    Credits:
    967
    Ratings:
    +651 / 1 / -1
    You know, that's the only satisfying hypothesis I made up to myself. He went there because it was the only place in the galaxy where he could disconnect himself from the force. But that begs the question: Why didn't he just kill himself? Why the trouble? If he went to that island to die, he did not need to die there, he could have died/killed himself in many other places.

    The only other hypothesis I can come up with is that his plan was to first: Disconnect with the force, and second: To kill himself afterwards (perhaps what he was about to do when Rey showed up). This could be the only way to not turn into a force ghost, and therefore provide a permament death.

    Could this be it?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. BaserCreatures

    BaserCreatures Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2017
    Posts:
    115
    Likes Received:
    227
    Trophy Points:
    672
    Credits:
    594
    Ratings:
    +320 / 5 / -0
    Great topic. I was just thinking about this earlier. I think the "problem" is we don't have enough clear "who dunnit" style questions that are easy to hypothesize and answer. There are still things we could definitely theorize on, but most people are still too hung up on the stuff they were unhappy about in TLJ.

    It's easier to be mad than creative.
     
    • Like Like x 3
Loading...

Share This Page