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Did TLJ kill the tradition of fan theories?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by BobRoss, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    I don't know ... We will never know. That's it.
     
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  2. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    Wow, you hit exactly the point I tried to express for weeks and which did let me down even more than Luke's death. I'm a fan of horror and mystery movies, but mainly not movies in which all 30 seconds someone dies. I like movies in which you wonder what happens next and why it happens. Not many good movies in this style are produced in these years, but it is something that I just love so much, to solve a riddle. I tried to follow the comics and the novels leading to TFA and TLJ. But now all of these stories are a waste of time. Also TLJ doesn't leave anything to discuss or any mysteries. This completely takes away all the fun to be in this franchise and spend hours with your hobbie. Aftermath was a waste, Phasma, DJ and whatever stories about boring characters are a waste and don't feature any puzzles you can collect to understand the full picture. All of this is completely gone. :(
     
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  3. greenbalrog

    greenbalrog Rebel General

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    I don't like leaving the theatre with the feeling that there were too many loose ends and too many questions left unanswered. I'm a fan of movies with satisfactory conclusions. I like the occasional enigma, but expect it to be addressed during the film, or if it is not that it is just one main ploint left to the imagination, but not many. I even enjoy a good cliffhanger, when they are addressed properly in the next chapter, sequel, etc.

    This is why I don't appreciate JJ Abrams mystery box. I like what he did with Star Trek 2009 but did not like what he did with Star Trek: Into Darkness, and certainly not what he did in Lost. I like a good surprise. What I don't like is to feel manipulated to realize later that it was all smoke and mirrors all along. I respect who enjoys that, but personally I do not.

    That's part of the reason why I did not enjoy TFA that much, especially as a Star Wars movie. Don't get me wrong, I think TFA is technically very well done, but I do not appreciate the amount of loose ends and unanswered questions he created and left hanging (I also did not like how safe and unoriginal the story was). TFA is probably my least re-watchable SW movie. I may change my mind, but now that's how I feel.

    Case in point, I think JJ's mystery box is the reason behind all of these unrealized fan theories out there, and all the unaswered questions left hanging, and most of the unsatisfactory feelings many seem to have (myself included). I do not blame RJ for the loose ends or for not being up to the expectations fans had. It was just too many things not created by him to handle in one single movie. In the end it's not even JJ or RJ's fault, but perhaps more of who manages the overall Star Wars movie saga creative direction. The story group? Nah, I think they act more like consultants. So, It's really up to the people who write the stories. The problem is that different people wrote different parts. I do not envy RJ's challenge, to come up with satisfactory explanations for so many things left unaswered that were not created by him, and that perhaps he did not like himself / or did not want to explore (that's probably why we get the feeling that sometimes RJ seems to be at odds with what he got from TFA, the way Luke throws the light saber as one example). I think he did his best while still being true to his vision and values.

    So, "did TLJ kill the tradition of fan theories?". I was not aware there was a tradition for that. All the other SW movies before TFA had very well structured and satisfactory conclusions. You may have not liked some of the movies much, but you could pretty much understand what was going on. I don't think there was much for us to theorize in the OT or the PT, but I'm relatively new in these boards so perhaps people were already theorizing stuff in the PT but I wasn't here to follow that.

    I think TFA is a good movie, but it's definitely not one of my favorites. I prefer TLJ, perhaps because it follows a more traditional SW story arc. It doesn't address all the unaswered questions left hanging from TFA, but I feel it does a pretty good job in dealing with them while still managing to create a satisfactory story and ending. So, I'm not surprised when people are saying that there is nothing left to theorize about after TLJ. I mean, what did you theorized about after The New Hope? After Attack of the Clones? One could know what to expect would be coming next, but there were no burning questions left to be answered next. Even in Empire Strikes Back we did have a major cliffhanger and something to look for in ROTJ. However, there weren't burning questions left unaswered in ESB I feel, no need to theorize what could happen to character A or who could the parents of character B be. The only questions were on what happens ahead: "What will happen to Han now? What will our heroes do now? Will they rescue him? How".

    What I'm trying to say is that I feel TFA was the one that went out of the mould of Star Wars tradition, and not TLJ. TFA created a huge mystery after who Rey's parents were. How did she have so much power? Why did Luke go to the First Jedi Temple? Who was Snoke? How did the FO came to be? Who were the Knights of Ren? What was that map all about? Did Luke handed the map to someone? Why was the Millennium Falcon on Jakku? Is Maz force sensitive? Is Finn force sensitive? Does Kylo know Rey? Etc, etc. I think it was just too much to leave open. Now JJ is going to direct and co-write IX. I hope he can make a satisfactory conclusion, but I fear he will just create even more mystery boxes, because that's what he does best. And then people will continue theorizing what will happen in X and beyond. You may like that, but not me.
     
    #23 greenbalrog, Mar 5, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
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  4. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Don't be shy, lead the pack.

    What is there left to talk about ? ReyLo ? and what else ?
     
  5. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Why not just go with it instead worrying about your fan theory?
     
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  6. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    I'm confused ? What theory ?

    You didn't write things about great mysteries ?

    Be our guest, tell us more about these.
     
  7. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    I am old enough to remember theories after Empire Strikes Back,, back in 1981 and 1982 that Leia is Luke's sister,which was prety obvious actually after Yoda's talk with ghost of Obi-wan and after Leia felt Luke at Bespin.My father expected it,we expected it.
    But George Lucas was powerfull enough not to care and go stright ,he knew people knew and didn't had problems with it.

    Some other times.
     
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  8. Pomojema

    Pomojema Ayatollah Of Rock-&-Rolla
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    Considering that TLJ was written before TFA was even released, I think Fan Theories factored very little into the story they were trying to tell. At most, I think the thing with Rey's parents being nobody of importance might have been added into the script once it was clear that fans were busy speculating upon it.
     
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  9. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Let the writers do their jobs and you just watch? What a novel concept.
     
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  10. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Why not close this forum until ep IX ?

    Still waiting for the mysteries ...
     
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  11. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    You mustive hated the prequels then if this is all about "mysteries".
     
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  12. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Actually, the fact that they are noone isn't a big deal, the most surprising is that we are spending 2 hours of the movie with this plot line and it just leads to nothing.

    It is so weirdly done that some folks are still waiting for the answer to come in ep IX ...
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 5, 2018 ---
    No I liked the prequels ! I've always said it, you can go on their specific thread I've never hated on anything Star Wars before The Last Jedi.

    I was even enthusiastic about the Freemakers.
     
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  13. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Fan speculation is great, and if it's to be criticized then I'm sure I'm public enemy number one.

    I think what @Andrew Waples is getting at is that ultimately a film should be judged on its own merits. Even if TFA was guilty of teasing Snoke's importance with a check they never cashed in on, I think that fan expectation is a bit to blame for that disappointment. I'm curious what the bigger picture will be when Episode IX comes out, and if, once we have all the pieces to this puzzle, we might see some of Rian's decisions in a different and better informed light.

    I think that the home release might also change some people's minds. Being able to watch TLJ in the comforts of our own homes as often as we like might let people step outside their own expectations and enjoy the film for what it is, not what they expected it to be.
     
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  14. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    It's done basically the same way as in TESB and guess what - there were people who questioned the validity of Vader's words after Episode V, too. If they are truly confused about Rey's origin, then I recommend rewatching The Last Jedi (or any film for that matter) without looking with one eye onto the screen of their smartphone. There's nothing "weird" about it. The only way it could have been clearer is if Rey would have said "MY PARENTS were NOBODIES. I repeat: MY PARENTS were NOBODIES."
     
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  15. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    This are some other times.

    Thankfully, there is last judge of their work which is, especialy after TLJ, from now on influenced only by one factor--quality of the backstory .

    Box office.
     
    #35 McDiarmid, Mar 5, 2018
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  16. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    She said it. She said it first.

    But you have to concede that being the kid of the big bad villain has a different impact than being related to people that are not even on screen furthermore if you deliberately treat it as a thing.

    Besides this, in ESB, there is no plotline about Luke's family before the reveal. That came as a surprise for everyone ( except for me because I'd been spoiled at school :D )
     
  17. McDiarmid

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    I would ask for a moment of attention, please.

    [​IMG]

    I am 47 years old. In the time of Empire Strikes Back release I was 9 years old kid. My father and even my step-grandfather were great SW fans and I followed developments with them.....

    Any comparisson of reception of Empire Strikes Back and The Last Jedi is madness.

    From the first moment people were stunned by ESB. People were speachless facing clear masterpiece. The battle of Hoth scenes were in the official television News ,delivered as a News of something that is jet unseen, and Vader I am your father instantly was a positive shock that echoed everywhere.

    For the sake of truth, and history that should be honored, and the hearts of us who were than fans, please, do not make comparrison of reception of Empire, and Jedi.

    Thank you from my heart.
     
    #37 McDiarmid, Mar 5, 2018
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  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    I don't think that's fair. @Pawek_13 was just pointing out the skepticism some people have when a villain makes a claim. Empire should be able to stand on its own up to criticism, I think.
     
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  19. McDiarmid

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    I have just begged like a poor beggar, please do not compare reception of two films for the sake of my heart and truth.
    My dear people just please do not do it I beg you, I was at that time, there, and now.
    Its incomparable.
    ESB created the myth. And created the fan theories, commics, expanded universe, and the franchise actually.
    Nobody expected the episode 2( in that time almost nobody understood actually what is concept of having episode 2 of a theatrical film?), nobody expected this , anything of it..Groundbreaking and history changing film.

    And, anlike TLJ, it created as I said explosion of fandom and theories-which evolved in expanded universe, anlike...we will see actually what this one did.
     
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  20. Bandini

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    The point isn't really is the movie good or not, we already made our points many times.

    I was only speaking about theorizing. Truth is that most of the answers of ep VII didn't have any real answer so the theories that went before ep VIII are still on and didn't change much and truth is that ep VIII is not bringing much to theorize more about this ST because it doesn't bring any mystery at all.

    So we're like in a theory status quo, that was the point of my first post here.

    We can't even guess correctly when ep IX will occur ... Hard to go further.
     
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