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Did TLJ kill the tradition of fan theories?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by BobRoss, Mar 5, 2018.

  1. Darth Garth

    Darth Garth Rebel General

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    No worries. I do like certain things about the film, but since LF has made it clear that there isn't a point in raising expectations, they'll just subvert them anyway right? I'm just not looking forward to it. I'll go see it but I'm not excited which is weird.
     
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  2. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    I love you to but I was surprised that people really compare Empire and Jedi.Still am surprised.Empire is considered and credited as one of the greatest films of all time,not amongst fans who should cherish this as sacred fact,but amongst people who are not considered themselves as fans at all.
     
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  3. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    get the heck out of town! what a load of baloney! are you seriously splitting hairs between fan fic and fan theory because of "evidence," evidence that you then go on to say is a term that you use lightly?? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    you know what else we can observe in the Forceback? the KoR! have they shown up yet? no? well... what if they show in ep 9?? :eek: that's a theory because i'm theorizing about the potential of a KoR appearance in ep 9 based on the evidence of the Forceback. a fan fic would be: Rey travels to Kamino to see if she can uncover the secrets of what happened back during the Clone Wars. as she lands the Falcon her communications and radar seem to be malfunctioning; it must be the rain and bad weather on the planet. when she arrives at the landing platform she is confronted by none other than the Knights of Ren! thankfully she has her trusty new students with her, Jimmy and Timmy. the group ignites their sabers and the battle begins!

    see the difference there? one is a theory and the other is a shoddy story, aka fan fic.

    moving on...

    you're counting your chickens before they've hatched. as i've stated, there are multiple outlets that can, and will, continue releasing Star Wars content that will likely cover what you so feel is so egregiously absent.
     
    #83 DarthPilkington, Mar 6, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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  4. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Attuned

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    Right, of course. But Empire has had the luxury of time and the third installment of its trilogy to help strengthen it.

    Each of the OT films are good to great on their own but they thrive because what comes before and/or after it gives them backbone.

    The point that I was trying to make was, had there not been a sequel to Empire, the adoration my aunt has for Star Wars probably wouldn't exist right now. She needed that third and final film to truly appreciate ESB.
     
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  5. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    What I find interesting/amazing about the original Empire (without knowledge of 6) reviews are some of it's comments. I always assumed that George just wanted just wanted 1-6. I had no idea about this nine part saga? Will see if the TLJ has the same success, but Clones doesn't appear to have that same success. http://www.starwars.com/news/critical-opinion-the-empire-strikes-back-original-reviews


    “I have heard frequently that there is a certain kind of disappointment with the ending of the second film. I’ve heard people say, ‘There’s no end to this film’ or ‘I can’t wait to find out what happens.’ But they will, and that’s exactly the effect intended by the ending.”

    “(T)hey assure us that their latest offering is only episode five in a nine-part saga and that although we haven’t yet had the first three parts they will all reach us in good time. There is talk of trilogies and myths and legends as if the enterprise had classical aspirations. Meanwhile what we get on the screen is the usual emphatic pride in machinery and paucity of characterisation that marks so much space fiction. Who are these people? What are they up to? Why is it so hard to care what happens to them? If you ever saw and committed to memory Star Wars such questions may seem naively exacting, since this episode reintroduces many of the figures and fantasies from the earlier film.”

    “I’m not sure I’m up for seven more Star Wars adventures, but I can hardly wait for the next one.” I wonder what this person thinks of Star Wars now?

    “To call The Empire Strikes Back a good junk movie is no insult: There is enough bad junk around. And surely we’re getting over the snobbery of pretending that it is undemocratic to recognize any hierarchy of culture, as if both low and high can’t be appreciated, often be the same people. But when light entertainment is done well, someone is bound to make extravagant and unsupportable claims for its being great art. You will hear that this sequel to Star Wars is part of a vast new mythology, as if it were the Oresteia. Its originator, George Lucas, has revealed that the two pictures are actually parts four and five of a nine-part sage, as if audiences will some day receive the total the way devotees now go to Seattle for a week of immersion in Wagner’s complete Ring Cycle.

    Nonsense. This is no monumental artistic work, but a science-fiction movie done more snappily than most, including its own predecessor. A chocolate bar is a marvelous sweet that does not need to pretend to be a chocolate soufflé; musical comedies are wonderful entertainment without trying to compete with opera; blue jeans are a perfect garment that shouldn’t be compared with haute couture. There are times when you would much rather have a really good hot dog than any steak, but you can still recognize that one is junk food and the other isn’t.”
     
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  6. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    Interesting to read the reviews of ESB when it first came out. I'd love to see what the fan reaction to it was. TLJ was universally loved by critics, but more decisive among the fans. I wonder if it was the opposite with ESB.
     
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  7. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    As much as you like to think in black and white I am afraid to tell you that there are grey areas. Some people will need less "evidence" to consider something a theory than others but one thing is for sure, you need at least one piece of evidence. . I'll give it one more try to explain the difference.

    1. Snoke exists and Plagueis exists which means Snoke could be Plagueis because its potentially possible => not a theory
    2. Snoke wears a ring etched with the glyphs of the Dwartii. The Dwartii were only mentioned once in the entire SW universe which was in the book "Darth Plagueis". Based on this information it is reasonable that they share a connection => theory

    The mere existence of a character isn't evidence you can base a theory on because it doesn't add anything that would make "X is Y" more likely than "X is Z".
     
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  8. romall smith

    romall smith Rebel General

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    If fans don't care enough to theorize and dream about different outcomes going forward then you probably don't have a fandom. With that a lack of fandom is the reason why you see so many great series Fade Into blackness.
     
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  9. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    regardless of how well grounded in evidence, both are theories.

    whether or not you feel like a theory is legit doesn't change if it's a theory. sorry to break it to you.
     
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  10. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 6, 2018 ---
    possibility = not a theory
    possibility + evidence = theory
    possibility + even more evidence = better theory
     
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  11. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    ugh...

    gravity is a law. this is because it was a theory that was proven to be constant/always true. until it is disproved it will remain a law, not a theory. once disproved it will go back to being a theory. this is basic scientific method stuff.

    again, regardless of how well founded in evidence, a theory is a theory.
     
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  12. ScumAndVillainy

    ScumAndVillainy Rebelscum

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    The movies have to be built and written for it in order to generate it. There isn't a fan theory to be made about what may or may not come out of KK's ass.

    What will be the reaction? Like most, nobody will care much about Star Wars in a few years, and likely laugh at those that do. We'll basically return to the dark days of the gap between 3 -> 7 as Star Wars not only ends up in the 5 dollar bin of history, but all hope is removed from the IP. At least with George, there tended to be another movie around the corner(or the hope there would be). With Disney, we simply won't really care what they're putting out. It becomes Just Another Hollywood Movie.
     
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  13. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Good thing that's not happening.
     
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  14. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    something that is true under repeated observations = law
    something that supposed to be true and has evidence = theory
    something that is supposed to be true and has weak evidence = theory
    *combining two random facts in an attempt to correlate them = crappy theory that is easily discredited

    *Luke's a guy and Snoke's a guy, so they're the same person. (this is still a theory, despite being an obviously ridiculous one)
     
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  15. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    it did happen....barely anyone cares about episode 9, there is no headlines, solo is seen as a box office underdog despite starring star wars most popular character, box office episode 8 got its ass kicked by a generic superhero film adjusted for inflation and will get surpassed by a generic superhero origin story known as black panther. the film was utterly torn to shreds by pretty much everyone in the fan community
     
    #95 zazeron, Mar 6, 2018
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  16. AfraidFool

    AfraidFool Rebel Trooper

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    /insert Luke TLJ quote here
     
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  17. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    lol, you do realize that 9 doesn't come out until 2019, right? If you don't care, then why are you here?
     
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  18. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    "Law" in science is used to predict what a thing will do. "Theory" explains why it will do these things. It's basic scientific stuff and yet you don't know it. Interesting ;) A weak theory (supported by little evidence) would be a hypothesis btw
     
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  19. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    wrongity wrong wrong.


    the·o·ry
    ˈTHirē/
    noun
    1. a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.


      hy·poth·e·sis
      hīˈpäTHəsəs/
      noun
      1. a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.


    a hypothesis is the start of a theory, it is the launching point. a theory is built on a hypothesis.

    for example: what if Luke is Snoke? (this is a hypothesis)
    example 2: well, Luke is a guy and Snoke is a guy, so Luke may be Snoke. (this is a theory)
    if you continue trying to argue a stupid theory like this, then you would continue to build on your body of evidence. say, they're both old; they both use the Force; etc.

    voila! we have turned our stupid hypothesis into a stupid theory.

    scientific law is when you can assert that your theory is correct based on repeated observations.
     
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  20. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    Yep, movies that are almost two years from release and haven't even shot yet tend to not have a ton of buzz surrounding them...

    It's a spinoff film... Rogue One had the same thing. They're not expected to do as well as the saga ones.

    TLJ did incredibly. The fact that some movies beat it is kind of a hollow argument when it still raked in a huge amount of money...
    Nah. There were a lot of critics, sure. But I'd have to see your data to support that claim.

    And @DarthPilkington, my man, I think you may have a lost cause. And I'm well aware this may sound hypocritical, given the rest of my post. :p
     
    #100 cawatrooper, Mar 6, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2018
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