Disney / Canonical Accurate Portrayal?

You can find a plethora of these scrapped ideas in the art books or here: https://medium.com/@Oozer3993/george-lucas-episode-vii-c272563cc3ba

The main story beats from the treatments which George approved of back in 2013 however remain:

- A Solo child falls to the Dark Side.
- The Solo child betrays Luke, destroys his academy and kills his students.
- Luke falls into a depression and exiles himself on an island.
- Kira (Rey), a Force sensitive scavenger from a junk planet, seeks out Luke.
- The Solo child kills his father Han.
- Kira travels to a remote island, trains with a broken Luke and convinces him to return to the war.

Give and take some differences discussed in the art books (names, characters, planets, sequences) with creative changes being a natural part of the film development process and I'd say what we've got so far sounds pretty faithful to George's original ideas after all.

 

So why create a thread for discussion if you’re not open to considering alternative positions?

This is not a generally held view, but the view of the vocal minority whose expectations, largely based on their preconceived ideas of what should be, rather than what is, weren’t met. And that minority doesn’t make up the bulk of the fanbase or dictate the Canon. (And judging by many of the discussion threads, one could argue this isn’t even the generally held view of those disliking the movie, but yours and an even smaller minority who agree with you.)

No one says you have to like the movie, you are free to like/dislike whatever you choose. But the fact of the matter is that Lucasfilm dictates Canon, regardless of your or the vocal minority’s likes or dislikes, and can change it as they see fit for the stories they choose to tell. You can either accept and like/dislike, reject and play in “head-canon” and remain perpetually dissatisfied, or jump the SW ship entirely.

 

Oh come on, George was never interesting in selling toys when he brought Darth Maul back to life?

 

Time to leave the troll thread.

 

Thank you sir! And remember the depressed Luke was the first thing they were drawing when the directed imagery phase of concept development started.





Furthermore. A treatment was definitely used back in the days Dark Horse was still doing the comics. Just take a look at Star Wars volume I (following Cade Skywalker) and ESPECIALLY Volume II (Ania Solo). They also adapted Lucas' treatment, this time by placing it 100 years into the future after ROTJ. They shifted some names around but the psychological themes Lucas intended to discuss in the sequals are all there in these Star Wars legacy comics.

 

Sure, we've fairly typically seen that someone has to wave some sort of their hand in order to do a mind trick.

Have we seen any conclusive evidence to suggest that HAS to happen? In the films, we saw Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin and Luke do it. All teachers and pupils. Luke and Anakin learned from Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan learned from Qui-Gon.

But there's no evidence to suggest that a Jedi Mind Trick won't work without the hand wave.

 

I thought it was a similar thing.

But OK, when Luke used jedi mind trick on Jabba he don´t do any hand gesture in front of him. Does that count as an example?

 

This reminds me of the outrage over Rey moving some rocks.

Does it really matter?

 

No, he did not. Luke takes his hood off and that is not that classic hand gesture.

 

Also, even if it were done in every case (its obviously not), did we see Rey's hands? I really honestly don't recall, but I don't think we did. She was tied down. She totally could have been waiving her fingers down there.

 

Your assertion that YOUR interpretations of events in previous movies or media make up evidence that the new movies somehow breaks Canon ignores the FACT that Canon is not something that is (and in the case of Star Wars, has ever been) static. It has always been fluid & changing as new media is introduced. At one point, what is now “Legends” was considered Canon. Lucasfilm, for better or worse depending on one’s POV, junked that and wiped the slate clean. GL wiped the image of old man Anakin (Sebastian Shaw) as a force ghost from the Canon, just as a simple movie example. Your refusal to accept that Canon is what Lucasfilm says it is is your hang up, and not reflective of the wider fan base.

All of these examples are either YOUR interpretation of the events or events that, over the course of the 30 years that are supposed to have occurred between Ep. VI and VII, things that could reasonably have changed.

Mind trick REQUIRES a hand gesture? YOUR interpretation, which the Canon (Ep. VII) shows is wrong.

Powerful force users going through a gradual progression? 10 yr old Annie being the only human who can pod race and who destroyed the Trade Fedaration Droid Control Ship doesn't seem like a gradual progression to me. Luke blindfolded blocking lasers & destroying the Death Star w/out a targeting computer doesn’t seem like a gradual progression to me. Again, YOUR interpretation.

The destruction of the Empire? Besides being thoroughly explored IN CANON through the comics & novels, ignoring those, nothing canonically is broken with a return of an Empire-like First Order with a Resistance rising up against them from former Rebellion leaders in the time period between movies. That the First Order couldn’t have arisen and a Resistance to meet them post-ROTJ is YOUR interpretation. (Although I will concede that this was poorly explained in the movie and could be confusing if one doesn’t consume the novels or comics).

And this last one, the deep love of Han & Leia plot, is laughable. Nothing in the new movies (or comics & novels) portrays their relationship as a fling. Quite to the contrary, they committed to a relationship and have a child together! They both express an enduring deep affection for each other in Ep. VII. It is only after the tragedy of their son falling to the dark side that their relationship changes. Not only does this not violate canon, it mirrors the reality of many relationships that face tragedy. Again, your whole argument is entirely dependent on YOUR interpretation, not on what actually is Canon or what is shown in the media presented by Lucasfilm.

Your further assertion that people are being dishonest in their fully legitimate and rational arguments against your interpretations is nothing short of rude. You have an opinion. Others have opinions. Others are not dishonest because their opinions don’t align with yours.

The FACT is that Lucasfilm dictates Canon, and the new movies, as established by Lucasfilm, are Canon. You don’t have to like it, but it is what is.

 

You forgot that little younglings were doing the same at age 5 in AOTC in a rather cramped space, and that somehow Kenobi couldn't figure such an easy assumption out but some little kid did.

 

So, where we stand with your examples...

You've conceded this point.

I can concede this point. I imagine there has to be some explanation. Whether or not we get it in Ep9 or not is, of course yet to be seen.

I also have to concede this point. I can understand having the Star Destroyer and a few others from TFA and Starkiller Base. But then having enough resources for what we saw in TLJ? It seemed a little weird. Like with Rey's Force abilities, perhaps there will be some explanation in Ep9. But I'm not holding my breath. I'm thinking its probably as we heard about Snoke, that he had been waiting a long time to strike. Perhaps he had accumulated a lot of wealth and resources and was able to build a lot of ships. But that's speculation. Still, it does seem strange. Not a huge issue in my brain, but I wouldn't mind an explanation.

You've conceded this point.

Regardless of my concession of points, I don't particularly care if they're never explained. It would be nice. But its not necessary for me in the story. And despite what you believe, that does not make me less of a Star Wars fan.

 

Who says that every Jedi can use every power? Even back in the "precious" EU days, you had Jedi who were adept at certain Force powers and others who were adept at others. You can explain any "continuity error" away. Trekkies have been doing it for years.