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Disney / Canonical Accurate Portrayal?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by YubNubBub, Jan 4, 2018.

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  1. BSDLegends

    BSDLegends Rebelscum

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    I can’t like posts yet, but I absolutely agree this could be a reasonable concern. I don’t attribute it as much to what force users can/could/should be able to do, as I believe that is mostly dictated by whatever story is trying to be told. My biggest concern in all the SW movies is how and/or why those force powers are used. That’s where I see the real danger in changes to the Force.
     
  2. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    I am almost as opposed to this idea as I am to OP. The series has been faithful to canon as it should. The fact that DC repeatedly becomes convoluted and ridiculous that they need to alter the consistency to keep it is a major failure. Sadly Marvel has followed down the path of universe rewrites.

    Your passion for SW is impressive. It means a lot to millions. It certainly means a lot to me. That said I don't see any of the points you made as breaking canon or disregarding any of the previous saga.

    Your example of the mind trick is ridiculous. Jedi reach out to do things with their mind. Gestures are not nessisary. Luke floats rocks while standing on one hand with Yoda balanced on his foot.

    When the lead up to PM was in full swing the SW website did write ups of the entire Jedi Council. Among them were many new and never used Jedi powers. Its been 18 years but one of the alien jedi was a specialist in causing opponents to become horribly nauseated. Point being the Force is capable of many things and mysteries can be unlocked.

    If you look simply at TFA and TLJ all of the powers are logical extensions of powers we saw prior in the saga. Reading minds which ironically did not require the Emperor to use a hand gesture is an extension of the mind trick. The mind truck pushes an idea reading feelings or details pulls them. Speaking or communicating over great distances with training focus and power becomes projection like Luke on Ach-to, or as Snoke allowed Rey and Kylo to do.

    As for you view of Han and Leia they were happy and in TFA we learn the problem when Leia admits that sending Ben away was the reason they had issues. If you look at other sources you learn that Han and Leia were still together 6 years before TFA. Implication that events following bloodline push them further apart.

    You don't have to like the ST but you've nothing but your own issues of taste and silly hang ups to base that on.
     
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  3. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    Your perception of canon couldn't be further from the true meaning of the term. You basically declare that ep 1-6 have a predetermined path that can't be altered in any ways, which is absolutely not what canon means. Han and Leia having problems with their marriage for instance is in no way a "violation of the canon". It only violates the story you feel entiteld to. Otherwise known as "headcanon".

    Also, the very basic assertion of this thread is simply wrong. The saga has never really been coherent or consistent in the first place. Lucas retconned the canon countless of times.

    The very nature of the Force is fundamentally different in the two trilogies to begin with. In the OT it's an energy field that binds the Galaxy together, in the PT it's a sentinent being with its own will and the ability to impregnate women...

    Answer me these questions if you really think ep 1-6 are some kind of Machiavellian art:

    Why dosen't Han know anything about the jedi despite the fact that they lived in the middle of the Republic like celebrities and even lead it's armies. How could that ever be poosible considering 1) Han was in this teenage years during the clone wars, 2) Han's best friend and partner Chewie personally knew and fought along with Yoda a mere 18 years before ANH...

    -Why didn't Obi-wan serve Bail Organa in the PT, as Leia claimed?
    -Why dosen't Obi-wan remember owning a droid?
    -Why are everyone much younger in the PT than they supposed to be?
    -Why dosen't R2D2 tell everything Luke has to know about his past including Vader, Leia, Sidous, the jedi etc.? Also, where are the gadgets, rockets and all the magical abilities he cease to have after RotS?
    -Why does Palpatine change the age of the Republic in AotC from a thousand generation to a thousand years?
    -Why does Ben Kenobi assume that Luke is the only hope (and leaves little to no mention of Leia) despite the fact that he was present at her birth?
    -Why doen't Vader sense the presence of his children in ANH?
    -How comes that Vader and Sidious were mentioning Luke as a possible ally, despite the fact that there can only be two siths at the same time?
    -How comes that it took 18 years to finish the first Death Star, yet it took less than 3 (after the Empire suffered it's most severe strike until that point) to build a bigger and more effective one?
    -Why does Padme die in RotS, when Leia remembered seeing and knowing her REAL (the movie directly emphasize the word "real") mother?

    To mention a contradiction deriving from the special editions as well:
    -Why does Anakin get his young body as a force ghost, despite the fact that he returned to the jedi in his old self?

    Etc. This isn't a taxative list, just a few that came to my mind. Sure, some can be "explained" via Olympic- style mental gymnastics, but most of those are incredibly forced and/or stupid (like Leia remembering her mother via the Force, or how Palpatine was talking about a "different" Old Republic for some inexplicable reason).
    First of all, why is this something that concerns you so much? This is such a miniscule "problem", even a hardcore Trekkie would be embarrassed to mention. Even if it was true (which it isn't btw) it's very definitely something that dosen't contradict with any of the established lore... The two methods can very easily be aligned with each other. There is a huge difference between a contradiction and not having seen something before.
    Second, We don't even see her hands most of the scene...

    Third, this is objectively wrong to put it short and simple. Luke dosen't use his hands when trying to use mind trick on Jabba in RotJ.
    Since faster than lightspeed travel (also sound in space) is possible in GFFA, it's crystal clear that the rules of physics/gravity differ from ours.
    Except this contradicts with ESB and RotJ where Luke didn't use his hands to levitate the rocks or C3PO, and also with the very nature of the Force.
    Physical gestures are not what make a jedi... "Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter" to quote Yoda.
    Most of us are radical fans, yet OP is the only who resort to threads and posts like these...
    No, you didn't learn anything. Star Wars is mainly about letting go of your hatred. Ever since you first entered here under the name "WhymeandmyfriendsdontlikeTFA" you mostly spread hate, anger and aren't even open fo discussion.
    No, not really... Why does every jedi have to have the same powers?
    This was actually one of my major issues regarding the force-powers in the PT. Having every sith being able to use force lightning for instance ruined the uniqueness of Sidious and his (former) special ability...

    This is something I blame on the prequels. Just like George Lucas himself, they were clearly inspired by the New Age movement, thus they tried to rationalise the Force and how one becomes a jedi. The PT made it seem like in order to become a jedi knight, all you have to do is train from a young age with a mini-lightsaber... The way of the Foce and becoming a jedi shouldn't be this simple imo.
    Everyone should have their own path and special abilities. A more OT-ish magic-like approach. Which is what the ST seems to be following so far. But to each to their own. If you prefer the MMORPG grinding version of the PT, it's your choice.
    This is why I love your posts. You never cease to make me laugh. From the royal "we" to the over the top style, you easily beat any Monty Python sketch...

    There is no problem with protecting the canon with passion (even though the canon itself is pretty self-contradictory), but you picked the worst possible examples.
    For instance force ghost being able to cast lightnings and maintain physical contact is definitely something that violates the former canon imo.
     
    #103 General_Tarkin, Jan 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  4. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    Blah blah blah.

    We can debate all day till we are blue in the face.

    A lucky shot on a DeathStar being lightly guided by the force....

    A lucky mishap into a trade ship over Naboo by young Anakin in which he blows it up from the inside....

    These do not compare to the rate of progression of Rey and they are NOT the same.

    Rey is the most powerful force user we have seen. Now if Anakin as a boy, just introduced to the force, was mind tricking pulling objects (same as Luke), you MIGHT have a point.

    But you don't have a point here.

    Rey has miraculous force progression and this is something we have never seen in Star Wars, fact. It is also not explained nor does it fit well within SW lore.

    She upsurps and undoes not only the character of Anakin, but Luke as well. Your a traitor to both Anakin and Luke if you think this betrayal of their characters in such a fashion is ok. Traitor! (duel)

    Seriously though, you are. Rey is the most powerful force user and with no explanation. She is capable of not only defeating Anakin in his prime, but Darth Vader during his power peak, and she is capable of defeating Luke during any point in his journey of the force.

    Rey is the first woman Jedi we get to see up close and she is by far more powerful than any other force user... even those from Lregends, Exar Kun.... if we want to go to canon...... Darth Bane....

    Rey is all powerful at this point. This screws everything up, betrays Anakin's character, Luke's, and yes indeed you are a traitor if you don't have a problem with it. Comparing a lucky shot with guidance from the force with Luke to the Deathstar, or comparing little boy Anakin who was lucky with slight force guidance on destroying the Naboo Command Ship, not the same at all to Rey's progression of POWERS.

    There is no spinning this. Rey is the most powerful SW character in Lore, and she undoes not only the Chosen One, but all his offspring as well. She simply does not fit into Canon, but I'm interested in your spins and trying to justify such a character.

    (lightsaber)
     
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  5. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    I can agree that Rey's progression with her abilities in the force is the fastest we have seen and it's really ridiculous she can do so much in the span of a week, but saying she is the most powerful character ever is stretching it a bit.
    My main problem is the complete lack of any kind of practice time, Luke had 3-4 years between ANH and ESB yet he still struggled to do basic telekinesis, he couldn't hold his own against a Vader who was toying with him.
    Rey defeats Kylo the first time she held a lightsaber, the argument was that he was wounded, but now a week later she demonstrates she is on par with Kylo or even better than him when they fight the guards, she also displays telekinetic powers that put pulling a lightsaber to shame.
     
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  6. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    Naw bro... Anakin was able to blow up a trade ship with a little luck and slight guidance from the Force.... Luke was able to blow up a Deathstar with a little luck and slight guidance from the Force.... they were also able to Force Pull immediately (lie)... and they were able to Force Mind Trick (Anakin in TPM, and Luke in ANH, another lie)..... they progressed exactly like Rey..... (please detect Sarcasm)

    I am glad you have sense on this.

    Rey is super duper duper.
     
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