SPECULATION Disney's fan service theory $$$

I’m willing to agree that the prequels were — subjectively — weaker films than the original trilogy. In many ways, I think Lucas’ ideas got far too big and complex for those films to work, though I and many others find great enjoyment in them.

However, I have to disagree with your statement that he was a terrible filmmaker.

He’s one of the most pioneering people in film history, and we only find ourselves on a forum such as this one because of how well received his vision was.

 

So Op thinks if Rey is Skywalker/Solo , and Snoke is Plaguies it was for the fans to be satissfied.

That's true, but not just fans, I think the God himself would be satissifed.

 

Well, as a director and dialouge writer i think he is terrible but as an ideaman he is of course very sharp and creative.

 

Because James Cameron is opportunistic in about who and when he says things....but I digress....

James Cameron has done a lot to advance technological film-making but he's also super overrated as a director and think there's a ton of resentment built up inside him.

 

I absolutely agree with you.

And whilst I agree massively that Cameron had done a lot himself to pioneer film technology, I feel that the only reason he didn’t like TFA - seriously - is because it did very little to advance said film technology: what exactly did this film do, in terms of technology, which hasn’t been done before?

Cameron’s always been spectacle over substance for me, and whilst I do find enjoyment in a number of his films, I do think some of them, and his direction, are overrated to varying degrees.

 

Couldn't we argue Lucas brought back Darth Maul because he saw potential to make a lot of money?

I mean I heard he said in TPM DVD commentary he had Maul die the way he did so he couldn't come back.

 

We are absolutely on the same wave length here.
Cameron hates Super Hero movies for the same reason.

I appreciate his internal drive to push for bigger better film making but so much of what he helped make happen will be overlooked in time, in my opinion, when people realize what a crass jackass he is capable of being. I make no secrets about not liking Gal Gadot as an actress really but Cameron really just took it way over the line.
His best films, True Lies withstanding, are all just spectacle added on top of tried and true stories. This in and of itself isn't bad, it's just weak considering how harsh he is on others.

Oh and Titanic sucks. It's not a good movie. It's a romantic spectacle that capitalized on 13 year olds dragging mom and dad to see it 10 times to build up a box office reputation. Avatar is a million different white invaders are defeated by less evil white savior movies with a smurf paint coat. 3D tech was awesome but the movie itself is meh. (Valerian did the general concept and world building better)
Kathryn Bigelow is better.
Linda Hamilton was smart to get away from him.

Anyways. To get back on topic
George made largely bad movies in the 90s that pushed boundaries. So Cameron respects that.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 6, 2017 ---

100%

 

I don't really understand the concept of "fan service". I mean, yeah, you don't want to make an idiotic decision based on demographics or popularity (such as bringing a severed-in-two Darth Maul back to life, ughhh)...

BUT --

Isn't the primary goal of 99% of popular art (as opposed to knowingly difficult/obscure/experimental art) to make fans happy? If you can provide the fans what they want while still effectively serving the story, why on Earth would you purposely go against what people desire?

I guess I simply don't agree with "fan service" being such a stigma. Again, as long as it's skillfully executed then please, give me what I want.

 

In my honest opinion, and just a friendly heads-up: the worst way to make a point is to open by explaining how you’re the one best positioned to comment on something.

And I 100% disagree with your statement that both TFA and RO are 90% fan service.

I’d say that, due to the very nature of Rogue One and it’s in-universe era, it would be inclined to be more serviceable to fans, and, in my opinion, has more fan service all over the place. I feel like this is why the more I watch it, the more of a task is to stay attentive throughout the first and second acts; I still stand by my opinion that its first act has the messiest opening to a SW film, and that it’s third act is probably one of the best endings to a SW film.

As for TFA not being the Hero’s Journey...come again? I think that it being based so heavily on the Hero’s Journey, especially in the Star Wars universe, is why many view it as almost entirely derivative of ANH. I love the film, but I don’t think there’s much of a case to make with regards to it not being based on the Hero’s Journey/Monomyth.

I think you’ve nailed it here.

Just like anything in film, fan service all comes down to the execution. Well said!

 

I seriously doubt this. Filming began for TLJ before Ep7 was even released. Obviously you don't just go out with a camera and start filming the actors doing random things like some episode of Jersey Shore. There's planning, writing, costume designing, that all has to go before that. So production (including writing) for TLJ had to have begun quite a bit ago.

Of course, rewrites can and do happen. And I'm sure that some even, at the very least, addressed fan reaction to TFA. We see this happen all the time. Part of the reason Suicide Squad got so many rewrites is because fans reacted pretty negatively to BvS's dour tone, so they made SS more :lighthearted". But it would be impractical to assume that rewrites made major changes to the entire plot of the series- they had to have a direction before then.

 

DELETE ME PLEASE

 

Agreed

ANH was more or less made with an obvious singular ending if it never got to expand to a sequel.
TFA got to play fast and loose with open ending because we know it's going on.
So the hero's journey is much less pronounced because we have no reason to finish, or hell, get particularly far into it in the first film of a known trilogy. That's rare, to KNOW you will get your third movie off the bat. Most *hope* for it but few get it. Let alone in a clean 6 year span with unwavering funding and backing.

@darth sputnik nailed it.
Fan service isn't inherently bad. It's just what it is.
Jurassic World is mostly fan service. "Hey, for almost 30 years we've done nothing but jerk you around about a functional dinosaur theme park, so here's a taste." Remember those fairly popular comics with raptors? Here's some of that.
But in the end, and I think this gets overlooked, it's a B-Movie with a blockbuster budget. It's characters are broad generic archetypes that have no real depth, but they don't need because we're here for dinosaur carnage. Everything to be said philosophically or social commentary wise, with this franchise was said in the first film. Even Spielberg couldn't do it a second time, it came off as preachy and made me hate Vince Vaughn for a spell. Jurassic World just leans full bore into it and has ridiculous fun with it. The teasers for Fallen Kingdom suggest they are going full on Aliens (har har Cameron) and going bigger badder and more intense. But the franchise knows this and relishes it.

Star Wars, in the end, is about the characters. So if they fan service the hell out of the story to give me great new characters so be it. What keeps a movie like Valerian from being a Star Wars? It has some of the best visuals you will see. It's wildly original. But the characters are cardboard cut outs in a movie that demands more, unlike say...Jurassic World. TFA borrowed (as all Star Wars does) a lot of story so it could spend the movie getting you to love Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo etc. It's a character piece. Story is second to character. That allows the fan service to really mesh and work (for most). So using fan service moments of the Falcon or Luke's lightsaber or whatever is necessary to prepare fans for no more Han, Luke and Leia in the near future, it's a great use of it.

Rogue One, while I love it, does have a few worse moments of fan service done wrong simply because it's so story heavy and characters take a back seat to the actual story. We know where it has to finish and it has to get there in time so no real time to get to know Cassian, Jyn etc. So the fan service of R2 and 3PO stands out a bit more. Ponda Baba and Dr Evazan are a logical reference but kind of feel shoved in because they don't fit the story but fit as characters, if that makes sense.

In the end, if the movies were released in chronological order (1,2,3,4,5,6) under Lucas, you'd undoubtedly get the same sorts of "fan service" like you do in the ST. You'd have to. It wouldn't feel like a coherent universe otherwise.

 

Well of course Disney is out to make money, they spent billions on this investment. I don't think they are doing things just to make money though. They are trying to give us movies they think work best. With what they are paying the directors and story group, I don't think they are waiting around, trolling forums to see what to do next. If that was the case, I don't think they would have let CT go. They story would have already been laid out for him.

 

The prequels are terrible films.
Yet you defend them. And I never claim Jurassic World is great. Just that it's a shlocky B monster movie. The fact you had to go on the attack in your post says everything about your argument.

Just because it's new or different doesnt mean it's good.

But then again, I didn't go to film school

 

*mumbles incoherently about catering to the formalism of mythological storytelling and jungian archetypes in contrast to prosaic and naive political movievomit*

 

Firstly, you didn't posit a single debate other than "It's bad" that's not a debate, "young man". That's just thinking your opinion supersedes anything else relevant to the post, which you didn't address, that it's a B monster movie where fan service is used as a positive vehicle to just get the ride rolling.

So your theory now is, Disney trying to make a good film is just them using covert algorithms to see what people want? Jesus. This is legitimately getting into some next level conspiracy blast.

We get it. You don't like the new films. You never will. You hold a bias for them.

You are conflating rumor with fact.
You are applying correlations to causation.
Just because A happened doesn't mean it's what caused B.

In the end you are mad that Disney is making a product designed to make the most people happy? What kind of backwards cynic would hate that?

 

I'm a little confused that someone could simultaneously be mad that Star Wars is apparently overly reliant on nostalgia and also that Disney listened to fans and is now preparing for a new trilogy, but hey... I never went to film school either, I just minored in it.