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SPECULATION Disney's fan service theory $$$

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Klai Kenobi, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    2 totally different points, but funny. haha Big difference between popular upcoming movie ideas and a sequel trilogy in production that's having fans choose important plot points as they go. Literally like a 'Choose Your Own Adventure' book. :)
     
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  2. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    Yes Disney is out to make money, as is every corporation. However, if money was more important than story, Lord and Miller, and Tevarrow would still be around.
     
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  3. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    That's fair. I guess my question is:
    Why wouldn't Disney listen to fans?

    Any just to clarify- I get the concern that, say, part of the current story changes to fit what fans want. For instance, if Han Solo was really well received in TFA and they brought him back in TLJ having survived his lightsaber wound and the fall into the pit (which, to be fair, is pretty much what Lucasfilm did in Legends canon with Maul). That would be silly, and detrimental to the story. Disney and Star Wars need to tell the beats of the story that they set out to tell, for sure.

    But I think that taking the general fan consensus of wanting something really new and running with that idea, crafting a story around that base idea, is not only a good thing, it's just logical. I'd much rather have Disney as a company listening to its fans than mindlessly shoveling ahead.
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    A little louder for those in the back of the classroom please.

    uybmnef1nha4xqbvbqty.jpg
     
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  5. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    When it comes to fan service the main factor is moderation and Disney have been exceptionally clever with this. The idea is to give the fans what they want without it impugning the integrity of the story. They achieved this with TFA. They baited the fans (majority) back to the franchise with a story that was very familiar yet under the surface was very different. Yes it was ambiguous and contained little or no characterisation however that was entirely deliberate. If they had bombarded us with all the relevant info right at the start every SW fans erection would of deflated faster than Donald trumps approval rating.

    Personally I think that type of fan service is over. Now Disney and the story group have our attention they will tell the story they intended to all along. It helps if you almost look at TFA as a prologue.

    And as far as the GL argument is concerned, I'm glad he can't touch this film with a 10ft barge pole. He was a creative visionary second to none and his technological brilliance in the OT will never be forgotten. However his ability as a practical film maker was atrocious. Some of the decisions made after empire still astound me.

    TFA while not perfect was 10x better than anything that came after empire and I don't think GLs lack of involvement is a coincidence.
     
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  6. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

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    He didnt give them away. Fox always owned the first Star Wars ( distribution rights are obviously included) since they paid for it.

    After Lucas fooled the dumb execs at Fox wit his "owning the sequel rights and merchandising deal" [this story needs its own movie btw] he paid for the sequels and prequels with his own money.
    That also meant no studio interference, something Lucas hated since WB cut out 5 Minutes of THX & American Graffiti for literally no reason.



    do yourself a favour and watch this. legendary stuff
     
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    No one is accusing George of being a puppet of the studios. He's still a money savvy business man. Hence the whole part of about the merchandise and sequels. He knew that's where he would make his bank.

    And Lucas NEEDED that kind of interference. He needed reigned in at some point. Overall, it just hurt his own brand doing this.
     
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  8. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

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    1. Thats not true Lucas first movies ( the movies he actually directed )were all critical acclaimed and are now viewed as classics.

    - He also made two best picture nominees back to back in American Graffiti and Star Wars IV (which should have won ;) )
    - He got nominated two times as best director for AG and SW (and should have won for Star Wars ;) )
    - And was als nominated two times as best screenwriter for AG and SW.

    2. He never thought of himself as a director more of a producer, entrepreneur and story writer.
    3. Lucas had more or at least as much control over Empire and Jedi than he had over A new Hope since he basically was the studio this time around.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 7, 2017 ---
    I dont disagree and tbh I would have done the same.

    Imo Disney is doing exactly the same thing Lucas did back then.
    Using the merchandise etc. to finance new projects which is logical.
     
  9. BaranDo91

    BaranDo91 Rebelscum

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    I agree with most of this. RO, I still need to rewatch it again(which I will today in lead up to TLJ), but as for the PT: I do agree with you. They are NOT good movies. Though, I do dig ROTS. It's my third favorite film in the franchise even with its flaws. TFA is not a bad movie in the lens of a film. It has competent production value, for the most part, some great acting and keeps the fun, adventure aspect of the OT. But as you said, I find it really hollow.

    My analogy is that TFA is a supped up Big Mac. Yeah, it's got some new elements and is prepared decently. But it doesn't change the fact of how bland it can be. Because, the Prequels were overly indulgent and just bad. But I can respect the ambition. I know execution matters, but more often than not; I respect a creator who fails in trying to be different; rather than someone who succeeds based on a recipe.

    Even the novel of The Force Awakens I find is a lot better. LF in my view learned the wrong lessons of the PT by gutting out some key world building elements which in the book were quickly addressed and it pressed forward. Just like the OT. So yeah, I'm with you on that account.

    But I do have faith in Rian Johnson. His body of work is limited, but he is a quality director. I will admit; I don't like Abrams as a director(He's a better producer) as he's diet Spileberg, but given how LF gave Rian an entire trilogy showcases a load of confidence. Could that be a mistake? Sure, if TLJ isn't as good. But I'm with you that the ST isn't done yet. That it may offer a lot more than people are even expecting.

    :)
     
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  10. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    That doesn't change anything. He was 'captain of the ship' for 6 SW films 2 of which were brilliant, 1 was OK and the other 3? Well I won't go there with the risk of offending people.

    He either lost the plot after empire or he stopped/started listening to outside influences but either way he was the decision maker and he got it wrong. There's no hiding from or excusing that.
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Everyone needs a Kathleen Kennedy. Spielberg talked recently how she pulled him aside and basically put him in check on ET when he was getting a bit out of hand.
    George needed a confidant like that so badly. But the pressure of Star Wars and then carrying out George's vision was really something most directors wanted nothing to do with. Would George have let another director alter the story if they felt it was hurting the narrative in the film? I have doubts.

    This is a very interesting read on Lucas' control over the films and exactly why it may have been an issue:
    http://uproxx.com/movies/return-of-the-jedi-richard-marquand/3/

    I don't think people give JJ and co. enough credit for how they handled that. It was literally walking a minefield.
    Being the first non-Lucas hands on a Star Wars movie since 1983

    And for fun here's a story that talks about how Lucas was against killing Han in ROTJ (a good idea) because toy sales: http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movi...2-filmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer/
     
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  12. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    It's a simple modern day marketing tactic as well as "supply and demand..." GL gave a lot to the fans during production and still made close to a billion per movie. However, Disney has realized that they can kill two birds with one stone: Because of Disney's built-in fanbase, that is a guarantee, and because of the Disney brand, they can bring in fans from other properties. By purposely not revealing anything, it causes sites like SWNN to pop up and cause demand so carefully selected timing to release footage, toys, etc. causes their bottom line/profitability margin to rise exponentially, which is why he have not sen much for TLJ, SOLO, ETC. In short, it has nothing to to do with fans service, but rather having to do with the company understanding their market and limitations...it is more of a business move. In many senses, it is definitely a monetary move, but at the same time, Disney and LFL need to pander to their core base while expanding and growing on a much wider basis both vertically and horizontally in various forms of media and merchandise above what has come before. I like what Rian has said about how the answers to fan questions are only answered to serve the purpose of the story per episode, but they still, at the same time, have to adhere to the business principles. I doubt there are any algorithms or whatnot, but in order to grow the brand, there has to be some sort of exponential growth towards what comes "AFTER" rather than re-hashing (TFA-excluded) while integrating all of our prior canon-knowledge.
     
  13. Mr Hux

    Mr Hux Rebel Commander

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    It was impossible for George to fail with American Graffiti. He had several talented actors, Francis Ford Coppola as a producer and a script partially written by Huyck/Katz (they co-wrote A New Hope with him aswell btw) at his disposal.
     
  14. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. Mr Hux

    Mr Hux Rebel Commander

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    ?
     
  16. Klai Kenobi

    Klai Kenobi Rebel General

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    Uhh. I'm actually not mad. It's just a bummer to see so many 'fans' accept The Force Awakens' and with such high praise just because it's a fan service film giving the middle finger to the prequels instead of standing as it's own original episodic film. The type of fans that just wanted to see Han in the Falcon again or a Jurassic Park finally open and thriving to the public rather than something new, complete, ambitious and exciting. Looks like Rian Johnson might have saved the Saga films, so I'm not completely biased. I'm just thunderstruck that so many people are on The Force Awakens band wagon, but good for you guys! I'm truly jealous you think it actually fits in the Episodic films. It's strictly an homage to set up new characters and literally not tell us anything which leads me to my original post theory.
     
    #56 Klai Kenobi, Dec 8, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Jesus dude. Nothing about the movie is giving the finger to the Prequels. Just because it's aesthetically more like the OT doesn't mean it's giving the middle finger to the PT because it sure as hell borrows a lot from them. And TLJ looks like it wants to do so even more.

    There's very little new and exciting you can do with certain premises beyond what Jurassic Park is or what Star Wars is and still have it even remotely fair to call it a part of that franchise. There's nothing new to be said for genetic monster dinosaurs. So just have fun with it. Even Crichton knew this when he wrote the first book and up until he was pressured to write a sequel.

    Star Wars in the main saga can only do so much and still be Star Wars. Six films in and you're limited to what you can do and have still be branded effectively as Star Wars. Even Lucas knew this.

    The more you post, the more this just comes off as a desperate attempt to bash the new films, love the PT and try to show off as a "film student" and impose yourself as "better than"

    "I'm truly jealous" GTFO with this pretentious crap. This is why no one takes you serious and largely views you as a PT troll.

    LUCAS OPENLY MADE A WEAKER STORY TO SELL MORE TOYS. YOU'RE THEORY IS GARBAGE.
     
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  18. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    Great post.And you absolutely put it clear why Rey must be Skywalker,its the most "Star War-ish"option they had,it was unavoidable.
     
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  19. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

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    I still think the big problem with the PT is not the story itself, not even the CGI... to some degrees.
    It's he wasn't able to reach a... "balance".
    It's the practical choices he made about how to tell that story.

    It's the scripts. The execution from this pov. How much time he used for the spaces battles (too much IMO in some cases) and not only (the arena scena in ep II is endless),
    how much time you use to let the characters talk, the rhythm... not the vision.
    How they talk about politics (GOT doens't bore people, therefore the problem
    is not politics but how you talk about that), etc...
    You may have had 3 graet movies, with the same basic/general ideas but far better scripts.
    That's where he failed. IMO.
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    The PT with the GOT model from the first seasons:

    Political talk political talk
    Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in a brothel
    Brutal death
    political talk political talk
    Random Boobies
    political talk

    You know, you might be on to something here.
     
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