SPECULATION Do Rey's Parents Matter?

This is a discussion/argument. That's not a bad thing, it is just what it is.

Foreshadowing isn't a tease.

Again, that was a JJ thing, teasing Rey's parents as something "more" but never definitively setting a path forward. RJ made a choice on what he thought would bring the most to the story. He could have focused on any number of mysteries JJ set up. But it's still just one movie.

Rey's parents matter to Rey. Not the story. Ren's using it as leverage.
"Your parents threw you away like garbage" - at almost the exact midpoint of the film he tells us the first reveal: she was garbage to here parents.
"I saw who your parents are" - as they enter the throne room; insinuating he wasn't full of blast when he said they threw her away.
"They were nobody" "Junkers who sold you off for drinking money" - Rey and Ren together.

Everything in TFA is a mystery box. That's how JJ made it. There were a million other options for who Rey is. Why did she hear Yoda and Obi-Wan? The answers were essentially limitless. Rian chose to answer it with: they didn't matter. What matters is Rey and her choices. Fans decided that her parents mattered BEYOND what they mean to Rey. This issue is a JJ issue. Not a Rian issue. Same with Luke. If your issue is with Luke in the movie, blame JJ. Not Rian.

I never said you couldn't be disappointed, my issue is when answers are clearly laid out and people argue they weren't there or were wrong. The way JJ made TFA, literally anything could be made a possible answer for Rey's parents. Just because they matter to Rey doesn't mean they do to anyone else or beyond that.

Shockingly, the good guys likely win in a kids franchise in the end. Right?
It's clear they can't go TOO far from the script because look what happens when they did.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 21, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 21, 2018 ---

Yes you can get around that.
They weren't all good enough stories for people to get worried about. Lucas gave no shits about the books, why should we?

She's really no more powerful than anyone else. There's tons of in movie explanations for almost all of this. It's subtext and not explicitly stated. She grew up on Jakku. Surrounded by droids. She scavenges space ships, lives inside an ATAT and has a clear interest in piloting. She knows what Unkar Plutt did to the Falcon. She's seen being left with Unkar. There. She grew up around droids and ships. She immediately identified the Falcon as "garbage" suggesting she's seen it before and knows it is "garbage". These are context clues in the movie without explicitly stating them.
"Darkness rises and light to meet it" meaning the force was basically pushing her forward into this because it needed a light side champion. Look at the PT and the fall of the Jedi. Hundreds of Jedi. Few Sith. What happened? Anakin happened. And boy did he balance the hell out of things in a hurry. Rey is the balance to Kylo Ren. As he grew stronger so would the force for the light.
Space Jesus at 11 years old won a pod race and destroyed a massive ship with no training while doing "tricks" in a space ship. His power was never what needed training. It was his mind.

As for Owen and Beru: that's the point. It's just a silly name and people put way too much stock into the name not the actions of the character, apparently

 

I understand that you don’t appreciate misdirection. But my point was to contradict your statement that teasers are part of storytelling. They are just publicity. No more no less. They are supposed to create interest.

 

But why do we need to blame anyone? Why JJ creating interest for the next chapter is such a big problem? Why Rey's longing for family and connection had to be interpreted as an indication of her belonging to a force bloodline? There were other possible readings of the situation. There was always a possibility that the connection between Rey and Luke in TFA (lightsaber, island) was due to the force itself, not to parentage issues... I don't understand why people feel so cheated about this.

Also, there was nothing wrong with challenging RJ, a talented writer, to find a solution for Luke's self imposed exile... I don't understand this constant need to blame someone for fans not liking Luke's story... If people didn't like Luke's story it's because they were not prepared to see Luke going through further change. JJ sticking Luke in a remote island and RJ giving him an identity crisis were just doing their job: offering the new protagonist Rey an opportunity to rise as the indisputable hero of this new trilogy.

 

I don't blame anyone.
But if people are wanting to blame someone, they should at lease blame the right person for a story decision they don't like.
JJ punted Luke to the second movie and put him in exile.
He wasn't on a mission. He wasn't out anywhere. He was in exile. That's a JJ thing. Rian just ran with it. My issue is that people are blaming Rian, who didn't do what they are accusing him off. Especially because many are cheering the return of JJ.

 

I think there's lots of blame to go around.

I didn't care about Rey's bloodline, but I wish they had an explanation to the quickness of her skill set with the Force, specifically the mind trick. That's my main complaint with Rey and it's technically not too late to "fix". In my head canon, Rey would have needed someone to teach her some rudimentary training in how to use the Force in that way. Everything else never really bothered me other than that one instance. Having that teacher/training would alleviate most of the issues other have with her, and I see that as a bonus.

With Luke, there were countless reasons why he could be in exile. I expected him to be grumpy. My only issue with Luke are the flashbacks. All of the flashbacks, just to be clear. People rationalize it by making ridiculous assumptions that I can't see Luke having a flaw. That's not the issue. I can see Luke making all sorts of mistakes. Not reining Ben in when he should have, not being there for him how Ben needed ect... my issue isn't with Luke having flaws, normal human flaws. Making mistakes of inaction, hesitation, doubting himself ect... my issue is with Luke actively and knowingly doing something evil. Not just contemplating it, but actually in the motion of going through with it. That part is all RJ. I think that time line desperately needs exposition to understand Luke's mindset, and showing us that without that exposition is what is causing at least some of the backlash. He's not recognizable from the Luke we've known. He truly seems like a different character. At this point I'd be relieved if he was actually Luuke Skywalker, his clone, rather than the actual Luke. Exposition could help, but I'll always have issue with that depiction. I think that action would have deserved a little more contempt from Han or Leia in TFA to make it realistic in TLJ. However, though more difficult, I believe it could mostly be fixed in IX if JJ wants to. It probably won't make me like TLJ any better, but it could make me enjoy the ST as a whole better.

As for why we need to blame someone. I felt horrible leaving theaters last year, and mostly still feel bad about the decisions and the implications they have on former and future stories within this fantasy world. It's not ruining my childhood, I've never been part of that crowd, but it could potentially ruin my ability to enjoy new stories moving forward. It changes the perception of the world, based on a handful of peoples ideas. I anticipated enjoying a bunch of new product in the SW universe, and now I realize I might not enjoy swaths of it, including the saga parts. That's huge, and yes, deserves blame. One of my favorite past times had slid down my top 10 list and stands to lose more ground if it keeps heading down this path. It's not the end of the world, but I am disappointed and would love to see them make a course correction so I can enjoy the product as I once did. I'll live either way, that's not the issue, the issue is change and one less fantasy world to escape from reality every once in a while.

 

"The dark rises and the light to meet it"
It's a line of dialogue that basically clarifies that Kylo's rise to power required a massive surge in light side force; to create balance.
Rey didn't have her awakening until after Luke cut himself off and the Force was actively in need of a vessel.


Luke didn't do something evil though. He thought about it. He considered it. Even if only for a second. But he didn't actually do anything evil.

 

Yeah, I also know she got her skills from Kylo in the novel as some sort of download. I just really hate that explanation, both of them. It just seems lazy. Yes, Anakin brought balance, but he still had to train to be able to bring about that balance. I would also say young Anakin is probably the weakest part of SW before the ST for similar reasons to some fans rejecting Rey now. It's not the actors fault, it's the writing. Some fans are rejecting the rationale that the writers have associated with the franchise.

I think a lot of SW fans gave GL a pass on that mostly because we realized he was creating TPM for his kids at their age. It was like SW with a little bit of SpyKids in there. We rolled our eyes and said "fine" but hoped this would be the last of that kind of story telling we get. Then Rey comes along and we get it again. This time it isn't a kid. This time it isn't the creator. This time we're less inclined to let it pass.

As for Luke, he pulled and ignited the lightsaber. In his mind there was an intent to kill. Sure, he pulled back, but that's not a tiny flaw of character. Unless his reasoning was somehow compromised, whether by Snoke or by circumstance, I can't help but wonder how Luke rationalizes those actions up to that point. To actively seek out a boy, a student of his, a family member, in his bed in the dead of night and everything else. I can't comprehend any decent human being doing that, going that far, taking each of those steps, unless there are mitigating circumstances which we don't have. Or he isn't decent and is self absorbed.

See, I see thinking about it, considering it, as Luke sitting in his room and thinking about it and shaking his head and feeling guilty for the thought. That isn't what happens. He thinks about it, considers it, starts to act on it by seeking him out, continues acting on it by reading his dreams, then pursues further by brandishing his lightsaber, then goes even further by igniting it. That's at least 4 steps beyond just thinking and considering it. I think it begs to be explained and explored further, to get the whole context for it to make sense, at least to me. Otherwise, I think people need to create some head canon to make it make sense, or those people accept that Luke is evil in nature, and only his rational mind holds him back. Which is fine and interesting, but it doesn't fit with the Luke from the OT.

 

There's a bunch of ways to go with Luke being on Ahch-To. Rian didn't have to go that route. I've heard Rian's interviews and his rationale for Luke. But to make him suicidal and a complete Peedunky was too much. He also could have made Luke contemplate acting on Ben without having him ignite and raise his saber. That went too far for a lot of fans. It all went downhill when Luke threw the lightsaber over his shoulder. Again, this was Rian wanting to be cute and unpredictable. It was a Rian Johnson character, not Luke Skywalker. I mean, Luke didn't think this girl with his old lightsaber finding him on a remote planet he was hiding on was a sign from the force or something? Anyway, it's done. It's not aging well. Hell, even the title doesn't make sense once the trilogy is complete since there isn't an actual Last Jedi.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 22, 2018 ---

We desperately need a Clone Wars style series. That series HELPED the Prequels not suck for many people. Disney has totally dropped the ball in my opinion. We need an animated series set between ROTJ and TFA and it should have been released between 7 and 8. I think they are waiting until after the trilogy is finished since they didn't know what JJ was going to do. All the more reason why the major story beats should have been predetermined and not written as they go. Hamill could even be the voice of Luke since he's a voice actor and already did stuff for Forces of Destiny. They have Han and Leia voice actors. We need this series. Instead they give us more OT timeline stuff about Casian Andor?

 

I unironically want Finn to be Luke's son because then all the callbacks Finn specifically gets to Luke (the theme playing when he "rescues" Poe, both scenes where he's a gunner, finding the training orb-thingy in the Falcon, being the first person to use the Skywalker Lightsaber in the new trilogy) in TFA becomes foreshadowing instead.

I think it would also help mitigate the whole "Rey MUST be someone special" thing. I think a lot of the problems with this are less about Rey and more about the idea of Legacy. The movies are tackling Vader's legacy in the form of the First Order and Kylo Ren, but fans want to know that the legacy of the Big Three is secure. That their goodness and their hope is passed down. People want a good Skywalker because the name is iconic due to its connection with one of cinema's greatest heroes.

Kylo Ren's redemption is simply an outshoot of that. If Rey is a Skywalker, does Kylo need to be redeemed? If there is someone else to carry that name, do we care about the evil counterpart?

What we care about more than Rey's parents is the legacy that our OT heroes left behind. Rey - a young, Force Sensitive girl with an undefined (and it WAS undefined, with the whole "waiting for my family vs people vs clan" thing - simply fit the mold we felt needed to be filled.

So to answer the question, do Rey's parents matter? Honestly, I don't know. But I doubt it. I just think Lucasfilm fumbled the ball a little here. And I say a little because our own expectations didn't help AT. ALL.

 

They matter a great deal. Not who they are specifically but the effect they have had on Rey throughout this trilogy. Her arc has been by far my favorite thing about this sequel trilogy. Her parentage intertwines with her journey as a hero so well. She knows her parents are not great people who saved the Rebellion so in turn she equates her worth with theirs and it is in this movie she comes to the revelation that where you come from is not important and the belonging she seeks is ahead.

 

They don't matter anymore if what Kylo said is true. Then they were filthy junk traders that hated their daughter so much they sold her for booze. What doesn't make sense is how a 6 or 7 year old girl raised herself on Jakku.

 

She had the force..."Its always been there".

 

I think her parents do matter. I think this should be the case weather or not her lineage is retconned. Star Wars is about family and Rey's parents are important to her story because they are who she came from they helped to influence he she became even if it was by selling her for drinking money.... I think that the answer given in TLJ could easily be taken as manipulation. Does this mean we will find out that Luke is her father in IX. Probably not. But I think there is a difference in Rey's parents matter to the story and that Rey's Rey's parents are important people. If Rey is infact a nobody she is inherently an unimportant character. However she still matters to the story. The same can be said for for Rey's parents. Even if they still turn out to be nobodies because Rey is important to the story, her parent still hold importance. Even if all that is was for was to leave her on Jakku. That's an important piece for getting her was she was when we meet her.

 

Really? That's your reasoning? First Anakin was created by the Force. Now the Force raises 6 years olds on dangerous desert planets? Hell, the Force should just start creating and raising their own light side warriors. Cut out the middle man (Jedi).

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 26, 2018 ---

If Rey was 16 and left her parents because they were good for nothing drunks and she wanted a better life living on her own, I could see that. Her parents in that scenario don't matter. But JJ made the choice that her parents abandoned her leaving her with memories of being left as a small child and in denial that they would return. That's a very unusual situation which makes the audience intrigued as to WHY was this girl abandoned at 6 years old. To have Rian come in and say that her parents abandoned her for booze makes little sense. It takes the build up and intrigue and importance and flushes it down the toilet. Now, Rey's parent's no longer matter as Rey is WAAAAAYYY past needing them. Bringing that plot point back is a waste of screen time.

 

And this is the lesson. That Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies, is vanity. Can you feel that?

As I stated in the same comment you quoted. They ,the junk traitors, themselves do not matter. The effect they have had on Rey does. If her parents were not deadbeats she would not be the same hero she is right now. The constant longing for family is her key character trait. So yes they do matter.

 

It's one thing to trust the force, it's another to simply have the force as a crutch for bad story telling. The force creating Anakin and the force raising Rey is bad story telling.

I would say they DID matter, but no longer in Episode IX. We got the picture. Rey had a longing to belong to a family. Well she does now. She has Finn, Poe, Leia, BB-8, Chewy, R2, and a bunch of Porgs (are they still on the Falcon? will they still be there in IX?). I hope the story move forward, not backwards. To me, the story is about Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. Rey's story is finished enough that its no longer interesting.

 

That is your opinion to think that but once again you not liking something does not equal that thing not existing.

You have not seen IX so this is useless conjecture. Which is fine for a fan comment board but you seem to confuse your own opinion with said things very existence which I am finding repeatedly puzzling.

 

This is TLJ reasoning.
I was going to continue quoting TLJ when I realised @Aloy of the Nora already had...

 

Arguably, the idea was there:

"Luke felt responsible...he walked away from everything."

It's hedged a bit on Han's next line about the first Jedi temple, but the concept seemed fully formed. Whether the revelation of the state of the galaxy and Han's death (which logically Luke would have felt) was planned to be a dramatic presentation (which I would argue worked perfectly well in TLJ) is a whole other thing that required the extra step of a full abandonment of the Force. That can be debated, but it worked dramatically for TLJ.

 

It seems that you and @Aloy of the Nora just swallow whatever Rian Johnson and JJ gave you and love every bite. I'm happy for you. I used to be in that camp. But for many of us, the story isn't aging well and is simply uninspired and lazy, lacking originality. Rey's parents question was being setup to be a cool plot point. For me and many, it was a huge let down and no longer matters.