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SPECULATION Do Rey's Parents Matter?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by DailyPlunge, Apr 7, 2018.

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Do Rey's Parents Matter?

  1. No - Kylo Ren and the new Jedi Order are Rey's priorty

    51 vote(s)
    55.4%
  2. Yes - The key to Rey's future is in her past

    41 vote(s)
    44.6%
  1. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    Anakin was so powerful that he was immaculately conceived to balance the force. So I'm not sure he can be put in the category of powerful from nothing. It was the beginning of a lineage intentionally created by the force. And Yoda and Palpatine's origins were never explained. We don't know what they came from. I'd like those explained as well, some time.

    Rey though, seems far more powerful than Anakin, but didn't need to be immaculately conceived to be born. I would like that explained in a meaningful way besides a single nebulous and throwaway line from Snoke.
     
  2. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    No. If they were relevant, they would've been actual characters by now. But they're not.

    Close thread.
     
    #102 SKB, May 7, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  3. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    We still don't know why Palpatine, Snoke, and Yoda were so powerful. All is as the force wills it pretty much covers it. You don't have to be related to someone powerful to be powerful.
     
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  4. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    I don't think it's that needed, though.

    Yoda and Palpatine and Snoke fulfill specific archetypes. Either the Wise Old Man, or the Mentor, depending on how you look at it. They are introduced and their character arcs revolve around their specific role. You never really have to explain why somebody like Dumbledore was wise and powerful. His age allows people to guess, and him fulfilling the mentor role lets people not need to question it. That's his role in the story. Nobody questions Gandalf being old and wise, because that's his role in the story, to lead the heroes so they can accomplish the goal.

    Likewise, it's not so much "powerful" that needs explanation. After all, nobody at all questions why Qui-Gon was powerful. He was introduced as a Jedi Master, who presumably has been through the trials and tribulations required to earn that title. He's old enough (like 50s), that we can understand how he's probably trained his whole life to achieve his position as master to Obi-Won. They earned their strength in the story, even if the way they earned it was through backstory not shown on screen. It's being powerful without explanation. Because I think an important aspect of writing, is that specialness needs to be explained. Nobody questions any teacher at Hogwarts, but Harry Potter? He's explanation is that he was marked by Voldemort, and it left an imprint. This is why he can speak parseltongue, it's why he somehow survives.

    I think it's similar to Yoda and Palpatine. Their roles in the story are their explanations. They are old, and wise, and their strength comes from their experience. No further explanation is actually required, but I would love more movies showing their younger selves (yeah, I'm that kind of fan. I want more movies of everything).

    But for Rey, she's obviously very special. But she doesn't have a lineage to explain it. She wasn't immaculately conceived to explain it. She's not old and wise to explain it. She didn't even have an inkling of her ability to use the force at a young age, like Anakin to hint at her strength. It completely awakened in an instant after being told she was special, and from there on she's shown an ease of access to it that not even Luke or Anakin showed. So, specialness needs to be explained.

    "It is as the force wills it" I don't think is enough of an explanation. Is the force now a purposeful conscious entity that manipulates space-time to balance the future? Because "the force" is sounding more and more like "the writer's hand" as time goes on. How was Rey's ascension balancing anything, if Luke was still alive at the time? Wouldn't that just mean it was more light than dark in the galaxy? Remember that Leia is also alive, and powerful enough to survive being spaced for an extended period of time. Did "The Force" know that Luke was going to die, so it prepped Rey ahead of time, as the substitute being called into the game, to earn her spot? If it reacts that quickly to events, will there be another strong force user that is as strong as the entirety of The Knights of Ren, to balance it still?

    So If Rey's parentage doesn't matter at all, and they really were just junkers that traded her for some heroine, and JJ won't be retconning that as a lie Ben told Rey, then I'd like JJ to spend time explaining how The Force is currently operating, and how Rey is what she is. I don't think it's too much to ask for specialness to be explained, like it always is in good stories.
     
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  5. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    You don't need lineage to explain it. I don't understand why Luke's relative lack of training is fine simply because he's a Skywalker. It's been established that lineage isn't a requirement.
    Who told her she was special? Maz talks to her after the forceback. Then she connects to Kylo during the mind probe.

    In 1980, were people debating how Luke magically grabbed a lightsaber without any training? He was navigating himself to planets and blowing up the Death Star with help from the force and this is okay simply because his Dad was Darth Vader? I'd understand this line of thinking if there was a rule that "only strong force users come from the DNA if other strong force users," but we agree that's not the case.
     
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  6. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    You absolutely don't need lineage to explain it. But if it's not lineage, I hope it's explained in depth. So I hope JJ does that in 9. So if her parents don't matter, I'd love to know.

    As for Luke, what needed to be debated? He wanted off that damn rock, and join up with the academy, being a pilot. He had practice piloting as part of his backstory. So there's no reason not to accept he could. And as for him pulling the lightsaber, it was 3 years after the events of a New Hope. It wasn't days after being told he has the force. Years translates to experience, and that experience led him to, in a flash, and with focus, pull a saber out of the ground in order to save his life from a Wampa. That's an acceptable progression. Nobody debated, because their disbelief was sufficiently suspended.

    I'm just curious still what explains Rey's access to the force in the way she's shown it in such a small amount of time. I think JJ had a lot planned that would have worked that from the sound of it Rian threw out to go his own way. Perhaps JJ will bring it back around again, full circle.
     
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  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    I don't think there was much of a plan other than the end game.
    As did Rey.
    He was still untrained. Rey learned through a powerful connection to Ben. This connection was so powerful they could see each other across the galaxy.

    The training in the OT was pretty basic.
     
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  8. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    Doesn't that sound a bit wonky to you? It does to me. She learns how to force grip and alter minds after being "connected" to Ben? I hope JJ goes further into that, because I don't know how just being connected with somebody translates into understanding how to do things so quickly. If that were the case, why haven't the Jedi being using that as a force-training method for millennia? Damn that would be effective. Yoda just ties your mind to Windu for a week, and viola you got all of his decades of training. Talk about efficient, lol.

    Which is something I'm still disappointed happened. I think the biggest blunder was not having the same director pilot the entire trilogy. Handing it off really didn't really make sense to me, as of course there would be conflicts of ideas and creative differences. At the very least, make sure JJ's original treatment is upheld, you know?
     
  9. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Maybe bebcause they didn't know about it? Or Kylo and Rey are much more gifted than every force user before them? Powerful light, powerful darkness. Sometimes stuff doesn't need to be explained.

    Yes, they knew the ending from the get go, but they don't know how to get there. This his the task for every director and his screenplay writer. This method is risky but it also brings alot to the table. The real problem is that there is no real communication between the directors of these movies.
     
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  10. Mitch Pelon

    Mitch Pelon Rebelscum

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    I find it interesting, after reading the novel, that the Dark Side seems intent on telling Rey she's alone. That's what the cave showed her. That's what Kylo Ren told her.

    So the question is: is she supposed to overcome the Dark Side by seeing through a lie and finding roots that have been hidden from her? Or is she to overcome and change her loneliness herself?
     
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  11. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    If that's the case, I think it's a massive misstep. To have a character develop a technique nobody knew how to do in all the history of the galaxy, then kill him off unceremoniously?
     
  12. Mitch Pelon

    Mitch Pelon Rebelscum

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    In the novel it's suggested that Kylo Ren learned how to rip stuff out of people's heads from Snoke. Rey is the first person to be able to reverse it, and as such it is stated outright that all of Kylo Ren's training has become hers.
     
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  13. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    We have an official answer to the original post.
    And the answer is:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    Interesting if true. I hope JJ invests some screen time into the next movie for it.
     
  15. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    That was before TLJ where those things were answered.
     
  16. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

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    You mean answered like this?(Pablo Hidalgo April 29, 2018)...10 days ago.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    What, this again? Jeez.
    Here's a thing. Since Rey is the protagonist, her background adds to the theme of the trilogy. If Rey is a nobody, then the theme is that it doesn't matter who your parents are. If you are good, strong, brave etc. you can become "powerful" enough to achieve whatever you want. This also greatly mirrors Kylo Ren: Rey is a child of junk-dealing drunks and Kylo Ren has the best parents one can have in a SW movie. Yet Rey, due to her choices, becomes a jedi and brings hope to the Galaxy, while Kylo Ren becomes an insane evil bastard, who kills his own father. So what you are matters far more than who your parents are. And if Rey suddenly turns out to be a daughter of someone important, then it would mean that your parents is what defines you and gives you "power".
    That is why my personal interpretation is that the Force "chose" Rey to be the "light that rises to meet the darkness" because of who she is as a person and not because of genetics.

    P.S. Nobody seems to mention midi-chlorians. Maybe that's the explanation you people seek ;)
     
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  18. ZDTemplar

    ZDTemplar Rebel Trooper

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    Well, like I said, Anakin the apparent chosen one who had ultra-4kHD levels of midichlorians manifested his access to the force as a very early boy. So why wouldn't Rey have even a slight inkling she's special by the time she's.. what is she supposed to be, like 20-24?
     
  19. Plagueis 1138

    Plagueis 1138 Rebelscum

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    Kylo Ren has the worst parents . His dad took off when he went dark. His mom didn’t raise him properly. Think like the Oompa Loompa, the mother and the father!


    Rey being unrelated to anyone is fine in theory but it wasn’t well executed. If she doesn’t need to be bound by her parents, why did they want the lightsaber from 40 years ago randomly call to her? Why drill us over the head with her lineage if you’re just going to be like eh never mind.

    If the plan was to not make her related to anyone we know then clearly establish that in the first movie. Give her a first AND last name, instead of pointless mystery boxes. Also, if you wanted her to be a nobody and make the mysterious until VIII, then don’t make it a Darth Vader twist. Have Luke be the one to help through this trauma.

    For my money’s worth, I think Rey learning that she’s a Skywalker would be a devastating thing for her to hear. Think about it, this looming legend across the galaxy wasn’t there for you when you needed it and to top that, your family has a history of violence and genocide. It would convey the same message. She would not be bound by the sins of her grandfather and she can form her own path.

    The only well thought out character is emotional Kylo Ren. Every one else is inconsequential to the story. You could remove Poe, Finn, Rose, and yes Rey from episode IX, replace Rey with another Jedi and the story would not lose anything. It’s all about this spoiled brat Ben Solo.

    Instead of Rey really growing and learning the ways of the Jedi, she spends her time going in circles on the island, hearing Luke moan and complain about how bad the Jedi are. Then, she starts Facetiming Kylo Ren and decides he’s the only hope because she saw him shirtless I guess. Remember, allegedly Han was her father figure and he just killed that guy over a day ago.

    The movie says the past is bad but by the end Luke is saying “the rebellion is reborn” and then appoints Rey as his successor. The problem with that is that Luke developed no form of bonding with Rey. He scares her off the island and then suddenly decides to stop acting like a crazy man because Yoda miraculously conjured up lighting on the force tree.

    I don’t care that Rey is related to somebody. I am annoyed that they are using bad exposition to explain plot holes. Apparently in the novelization, Rey downloaded Kylo Ren’s jedi sword fighting skills. Really? You don’t just become good with a sword. An Olympic Athlete spends hours and hours practicing. Rey has only been doing this for three days. Regardless if the Light Side “chose” her, there has to be some actual growth.
     
  20. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi General

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    A) There aren't any plot holes
    B) Rey being able to handle herself in a fight was established in the first 30 minutes of The Force Awakens. She grew up in a tough place.
     
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