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Do We Need Finn Going Forward

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Rayjefury, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    This is not a question exploring whether or not John Boyega is under contract or not or if he will or won't be paired with Daisey Ridley, it's a question that examines Finn's character arc and his place in the story and questions what (if any) purpose it serves going forward.

    As a member of the Resistance he'll no doubt play a role in the fight ahead like those around him (Lt. Connix, Commander D'Acy, etc.) - is this something that actually requires screen time? With no clear path established other than membership in the Resistance, is there any in-story reason to follow his path anymore closely than say following Lt. Connix?

    Example:
    • We need to follow Rey's story to understand what happens to the Jedi.
    • We need to follow Kylo's story to understand what happens to the Darkside and the FO.
    • We need to follow Poe's story to understand what happens to the Resistance.

    Is there any in-story reason why we need to follow Finn? We get that he is a Resistance Member, is there any reason why we should care about how he in particular develops as opposed to another Resistance Member?
     
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  2. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    Well JJ made him and Rey close but RJ killed that too. So, unless he is going to be Chewy’s side kick I’d say nope. RJ pretty much ruined the ST.
     
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  3. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Rebel Official

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    Yes! Finn provides a much-needed grounded view. Han provided this in the OT (I'm not saying Finn is the ST's Han per-se, but that they provided similar roles). Padme was this for the AOTC and ROTS (Obi-Wan was this in TPM). And despite the backlash to Rose, Finn's arc and with her tried something new. Finn, despite the opinions of him after TLJ, is still the character that has the most potential because of the lack of role.

    Yes, he could be a ground soldier while Poe takes the sky battle or is in the command center.
    Yes, he could still incite that Stormtrooper rebellion.
    And yes, I still believe he could have something to do with the Force.

    JJ created Finn and gave him a great arc in TFA. I have faith he can do the character justice in Ep IX.

    Finn's also my favorite ST character, so I'll be sad if he goes.
     
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  4. Trooper212

    Trooper212 Rebel General

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    This is a great question and the clarification makes it even better. I think we both know the logical answer to that question. I would really like to say 'yes' but I can't. To do that would mean that I would have to tie his importance to something that either (1) so far hasn't been shown or (2) something that just hasn't been given enough importance throughout this entire saga.

    I can't really justify continuing to follow the story of a defected stormtrooper when that stormtrooper's history is pretty much rendered meaningless the moment he defects. If the Resistance was nearly wiped and completely untrained in combat against the First Order and so desperately needed his knowledge as a combatant, then he would be needed. But we know that's not the case. This is a prime example of number 1: justification based on something that hasn't been shown.

    I could try to make the case that he could be a general for the Resistance. But again I can't justify that based on the fact that being a general has never really meant anything in Star Wars. Literally every main human character in the OT was designated as one and all that accomplished essentially was......designating them as the main human characters. See number 2

    Looking at how he's been handled so far I can't really justify continuing to follow his story. He hasn't been designated as anything special by the actual movies. They took Han Solo's awesome piloting skills and Leia's being the face of the military arm and gave them both to Poe so I don't how Finn as a character given his current state can compete with that.

    Look, I love Finn for what he could be or could have been, but I can't ignore what he is.

    That's why I say the way he's currently constructed, no Finn isn't needed.
     
  5. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    Interesting. I'd argue:

    1. Any character could be used to communicate a grounded view. They could use Rose very easily for that, actually in TLJ I think they did.
    2. I don't think Han provided a grounded view, he was his own thing, not a Rebel, not with the Empire, he occupied a space that neither Luke or Leia did.
    3. Do we care about ground soldiers? For the Resistance or the Empire/FO? Have we ever? Maybe Rogue One? I feel like 90% of the Wars in Star Wars is aerial
    4. May be my own personal bias but I think it's too late to initiate a Storm Trooper rebellion now. It made sense to start within TLJ's setup when the Resistance's back was up against the wall. But the Holdo maneuver takes out most of the remaining FO armada. So to recap, no more SKB, no more Snoke Stealh Bomber, and the FO loses 8 or 9 SD with the Holdo maneuver. The Resistance doesn't have to raise a well equipped army or siphon manpower away from Kylo to oppose the FO now. Just my opinion.
    5. It's not impossible that they would do a FS reveal, but unlikely IMO. If they do reveal it, it will be like the OT where there is only passive usage of that FS
    6. I don't think he has enough bandwidth to do the character justice with plausible development. To me it has to be both, it can't just be Finn coming into his own via some deus ex machina. Again, just my take.
     
  6. p03

    p03 Force Sensitive

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    Luckily JJ is back he will extend Finn's arc and complete it. If RJ was still in charge the answer would have been no. He should be important he was the male and true co-lead TFA. He is needed, whether the story group or KK agree is an entirely different question.
     
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  7. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    I was going to post in the Finn thread in an attempt provide some speculation for what he might do in EPIX and it occurred to me that I don't know what he has as a mandate. There are in-story plot reasons we need to follow Rey, Kylo, and Poe, there are things they need to do, I couldn't think of something similar for Finn. Yes he'll be Resistance, but his character doesn't seem to have any purpose that we should follow him especially. There are of course a number of people who have said his arc was great in TLJ and so if I'm being honest, I'm really hoping they chime in and talk about what space they think he'll occupy in EPIX that warrants us focusing on him out of all the rest of the Resistance Membership.
     
  8. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    Yes, we need Finn. There's a variety of different directions they could go with Finn in the next film. He will obviously be one of leaders of the Rebellion as he's one of it's biggest heroes. He could also serve as a wake up call to peel members of the First Order away with his personal experience as a soldier.
     
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  9. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    Do you though?



    Really? The only thing I have seen set up is that he is formally Resistance. That's what Rian envisioned as his next big step forward - joining the Resistance. What variety of direction is there that you see?

    He will? Why? What from TFA or TLJ says to you, he in particular can or should be a leader? Why shouldn't that role got to actual officers like Lt. Connix who have been in the trenches for the Resistance? Will he be a leader by virtue of merit or because their numbers are so small that everyone that's left has to be a leader?

    Biggest heroes? Hmmmm. Well he did attempt to battle Kylo Ren. Was there some other exhibition of heroism or was that the one?
     
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  10. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Rebel Official

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    And in that occupied space Han helped ground the audience. He didn't really stand for any big ideals like Leia did, nor was he mystical like Luke. Han was a guy who stood up for himself and later his friends. That space right there is where Finn can and should stand.

    That's the great part about Finn (and Rose TBH)! We finally get to care about the ground soldiers.

    As for 90% percent of Star Wars being aerial, I'll haggle you down to a solid 75% ;) Ever since ROTJ, Star Wars has split its Big Battles between aerial/space, ground, and Jedi. In ROTJ we had Han and Leia on the ground, Lando in space, and Luke doing his Jedi thing. In TPM we had Jar Jar on the ground*, Anakin in space, and Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon doing their Jedi thing. AOTS had separate fights for them all, and ROTS pretty much had all three fights with Obi-Wan and Anakin at the beginning. TFA really didn't, but we did get a ground fight at Takodana. And TLJ switched up aspects. Having the aerial fight at the beginning and on Crait, used the intimacy of the Jedi fight for Finn's fight (which is a topic or another time), and then used the "ground fight" in the Throne Room. Kinda.

    And I totally get where you're coming from. Honestly, had this been anyone BUT JJ I'd probably side with you. But JJ helped create this character and he did a masterful job with it. I have faith he can take us home. And on the bright side, there's nothing so broken with Finn that an animated show by Dave Filoni can't fix. Seriously, that dude made Anakin likeable and Darth Maul both cool AND menacing. I'd trust him to clean up any potential mess.

    He WAS integral in taking out Starkiller Base (helping come up with the plans, disabling the shields, helping put up bombs (though that may have been all Han and Chewie)).




    *we were supposed to care about him, but...well...
     
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  11. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    I don't need answers to any of those questions, because I don't care. All I want is a good Star Wars movie thru and thru. The only character that I am interested in is Finn, and that is because I am curious how far Hollywood and America has come or is willing to go backwards. Ever since people wanted to minimize his importance I have decided to study this phenomenon by people who need for him to be lesser than the other characters in the movie. I don't care about the movie anymore. I'm more interested in the response.

    Rey has powers, but no purpose. Between her and Finn there is no way she should be the catalyst. She has nothing to be upset about. None of the characters have much purpose. The one that should is Finn. Purpose to escape and find his family. Not the purpose to pick up a weapon and fight in someone else's army.
     
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  12. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    To answer the question, yes, we need Finn.

    To me, Finn is something of a grounding rod and a bit of a conscience for the rest because of where he comes from (the FO), what he's seen, and that he made that moral decision to leave. He is utterly and completely jaded against the FO, and when it really matters, we are reminded of this via Finn.

    He is a character of his own, a part of the team, and a part of the future.
     
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  13. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    I'll ignore the list of rhetorical questions. However, do you really need to know why Finn is considered a hero by the Resistance? I'm not sure this is a serious question since it's so obvious.
     
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  14. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    The resistance is down to 20 or so people, so he'll be a founder of this new Resistance they build in the anticipated time lapse. So he'll be important, if for no other reason, because he survived the FO's purge of the resistance. He was there when Luke did his thing. He's close friends with both Rey and Poe.

    However, I would say he's the least important and could easily be sidelined and be supplementary like Connix at this point. Important in reality, but just not that important on screen and not deserving of screen time.

    Remember too, the audience will be expected to assume he's been active and learning through that inevitable time jump between episodes.

    I think the truth is that they can go without, but they won't and he will be integral to the story in some way. JJ created him and he'll give him his due. Whether or not after his role in TLJ that feels organic, we'll see after IX. I'm sure it will be subject to much debate.
     
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  15. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    Sure, in TFA he perhaps provides some grounding. But much of that is undone or re-vectored (if you prefer) in TLJ. And that aside, I think what you are pointing out is more about how he is used as a device to serve that particular film (TFA). My question here is about if there is any in-story reason, any plot point provided within the ST, for which we need to follow Finn in EPIX. And I think the case can be made that we don't.

    For example, if there had been some thread about him discovering his past or wanting to find his home, that would be something unique to him. We couldn't follow that thread to it's logical conclusion without following Finn. Obviously what the story tellers choose to focus on and choose to create as threads and arcs that require us to follow a particular character is a fielder's choice. There's lot's of ways it could be done beyond just the example I gave for Finn. But the example I gave definitely could have been Finn's 3 film arc, coming out of bondage (I), being driven to find his connection (II), and eventually going to find it and reconcile with what it was (III). It's certainly not the only possible arc for him, but it's one.

    What he has right now as an arc is this: He has broken free from the FO (unique) to join the Resistance (not unique). The story of a Resistance member can literally be told from any number of characters (including Rose and Poe). They may do it through Finn, but they don't NEED to, there is nothing he adds to it, and nothing developed in the overall ST that tells us that the Resistance in particular needs something from him that they don't have in any one else. Rian ostensibly finishes all his development by saying: Finn culminates in choosing the Resistance. He was scared, now he's not. He was FO, now he's Resistance.

    What development is there left to follow?
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 29, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 29, 2018 ---
    Sure absolutely they will cram development (for all characters) in the time jump; we all have to acknowledge that I think. But Rey had a unique purpose and role to fulfill. So did Poe, so did Kylo. When Rey shows up being a much more proficient Jedi Knight it absolutely will have some organic metadata because this journey began in the first film and has been building (poorly in many ways, but still building) up until EPIX. Kylo's ascension to the throne in the FO is something that has been brewing the whole ST. Arguably Poe's arc towards command leadership only begins in earnest in TLJ but there are at least smatterings of it in TFA. Arguably, even if JJ attempts to do the character justice, it will be a completely new wrinkle, largely untethered to his journey in TFA and TLJ. Let's just say for example that the people at LFL flip a coin and decide Finn is going to be a Resistance Fighter pilot. Maybe he's even a really good pilot. What in TFA or TLJ would have alluded to this future? Nothing. They can bestow it upon him out of the blue, but it would represent the culmination of nothing. It will be completely inorganic.
     
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  16. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    Apply any Storm Trooper skill to what Finn can give to those he trains, and to which he leads. Maybe the resistance takes on different strategies, like boarding vessels instead of all out space warfare.

    Beyond that, Finn can also teach his troops to be great janitors, keeping the ship pristine and clean in the aftermath of their assault. :D

    I absolutely get what you're saying, and you're right, he doesn't have quite as big a destiny as the rest and it certainly hasn't been nearly as foreshadowed as the others. That said, stormtroopers I'm assuming are good at demolitions, melee, range, and possibly even gunners, which has all been alluded to in previous films. Then of course there is the possibility to cram in a ST revolt. Now if the next super weapon requires a strike team to board the base, then he will become essential in that task. Think Endor but in space. That's my best guess anyways.
     
  17. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    I used to love the idea of Finn freeing the other stormtroopers. Now I don't. Especially if their purpose is to help the Resistance. No thank you. The Resistance hasn't done anything in these past two movies for me to want to follow them. They are selfish. Both the FO and the Resistance are incompetent.
     
    #17 Corn Cream, Nov 29, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2018
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  18. Cunir

    Cunir Clone Trooper

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    I always thought it would have been cool if the rebellion sent him straight back to be a stormtrooper again, and turned him into their spy. That’s something we haven’t really seen in a Star Wars movie yet... anything about the stormtroopers from the inside. We could have got to know a few of them, seen a few battles from their side, seen onboard their ships.
     
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  19. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    [​IMG]
    Might be tough to do that now with what happened with Phasma on the Supremacy. I do like the idea of Finn appealing to worlds about a reason to join the Rebellion. One big part of Finn's role is winning over the hearts and minds of people who are just tired of conflict.
     
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  20. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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    Ain't Never Been 'bout what "We Want" ...
    Not No Star Wars Story. Not A One of Any of It.
    Sure, 'speculation' ...
    That's fun'n All ...
    then Stuffs like ^up^ There's Gets All Carried Aways ... Causes "I Wants !"

    But That There's Yer Down Fall
    Can ya SEE ??

    ...gets TiredSome ...
    Not Never Gonna Go just The Way Ya Thinks ...
    Not Never Did
     
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