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Do We Need Finn Going Forward

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Rayjefury, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Trooper212

    Trooper212 Rebel Official

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    I would say that really doesn't matter and isn't necessary for IX being a blockbuster. Why? Because the trilogy is being touted as the end of the Skywalker saga and them being the only super-powerful and only new force-sensitives makes their stories paramount to the majority of Star Wars fans. IX is going to be a blockbuster regardless of whether or not there is curiosity about those two characters.
    It's certainly the only thing that can save it for me. But unfortunately I don't think there are enough people that agree, so I think we're in for more of the same as TLJ.
     
  2. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    Absolutely he was removed from the most important characters list, but look how that turned out. The movie also ignored questions about Rey and Kylo. Rian may have placed them front and center, but that doesn't mean they are ready. I can understand what you are saying when it comes to Finn going forward. Based on what Rian Johnson did with his character I am no longer interested.
     
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  3. Rellum

    Rellum Rebelscum

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    Finn had a story arc in TLJ. Poe and Luke were the others. Finn's journey from deserter to finding Ray and putting his life on tbe line for her continued in TLJ by trying to find Ray by deserting to sacrificing himself for the resistance.

    You can argue about if he was fi ding a family or a cause but that doesn't really matter. He has gone as far as you can go on that journey.

    I can definately see him having a similar role as Lamdo or Han in ROTJ. In there fight but no change in him, his character.
     
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  4. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    What was Finn's story arc? Fighting for other people over himself? He already did that in TFA. Who cares if he would give his life for the Resistance. I think he is pretty stupid. Besides Rey is more powerful than him. Why would anyone show more concern for a person who can take care of themselves better than he can? Finn was written more like a sick fantasy than an actual character with a brain in TLJ. Anyone would find it more satisfying if he found out who he was before picking up a weapon to help some people he hasn't known for a week. Anyone who thinks otherwise I would have to question if they see Finn as a human being.
     
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  5. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    charming
     
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  6. Buckeye94

    Buckeye94 Rebel General

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    Yes, we need Finn. I said so!:) I've always liked this character and found him quite rootable. I like the backstory of the stormtrooper who resisted programming and went to help the good guys way better than I like the "backstory" of some other characters, who I won't name or get into because it will start an argument. It's way past time to have Finn step up as a leader beside Poe in the Resistance, and from the looks of some of the set pics, we may finally be getting that. No more pointless side missions or janitor jokes, make Finn an important part of the story and give him more heroic moments. Just my 2 cents.
     
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  7. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
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    Coming out swinging, eh?
    Sorry if you were put off by the way I phrased my initial statement, but I really don't know what's got you playing the victim card so quickly. Anyways, if you care to actually discuss this....

    The point I was merely trying to make was that I don't see this trilogy as any one character's story. Each may play a bigger or smaller role as we see it, but ALL of their stories depend on each other. And it seems to me that you are stuck on Finn not being THE central character, so much so that you fail to see that he is still A central character. Don't lose the forest for the trees, you know?
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Eh. His rescue is entirely unrelated to the rest of the story. If you take out the whole rescue scene, it really changes nothing about the movie, tonally or thematically. Yes it's great fun but it's not something you *need* to see. Especially because there was no guarantee Han was even going to be rescued (George played the trump card and kept Han alive and therefore needed a rescue but it really isn't *needed* for the main story). I say this because if they went the route it sounded like Kasdan (I think) and Harrison wanted, the movie starts out with Han being dead or still imprisoned by Jabba with no real change to how things go for the Luke/Vader story, which is the story.

    The Han/Leia romance was set up in Empire and was really just a lot of retread in ROTJ with an awkward boob grab thrown in. He's just there. Wedge could have done everything Han did in ROTJ. Except the boob squeeze.

    I'd disagree on Finn not being integral to TLJ. His development is far from over. He just now knows who he is: he's a rebel. Finn's arc in TLJ is finding who he is. In TFA yes he is running from the FO but he isn't running to the Resistance. In TLJ he is running from the Resistance. He thinks he can just keep running; which is a fair thing to think in a friggin war. This is why him meeting DJ is important. DJ represents the Han Solo who doesn't return at the end of ANH. Finn sees firsthand what it's like to never pick a side and keep trying to play the middle. Will he choose to be like DJ or will he choose to be a rebel and fight. Now we get to see him grow into this role. Given his experience and the dwindling size of the Resistance, it's fair to assume he will likely be given a bigger role within the Resistance especially with Poe likely having to be less hands on more leader. Through Finn and Rose is how we learn of the potential spread of the Resistance and the spread of hope through the galaxy. Now I say all this with the caveat of, as always, you don't have to like how Finn was used or his story but it was there and it is pretty important for him and the direction Star Wars seems headed.
     
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  9. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    You just described Finn in TFA and the beginning of TLJ.

    This is why he has his TLJ storyline of learning to fight for a cause, not just for Rey.

    @RoyleRancor
    The RotJ Han rescue, shows how far Luke has come from wet-behind-the ears-ANH Luke and impetuous-ESB-Luke to calm-cool-collected--wise-RotJ Luke.

    It shows Luke is now a man, now saving Han's life unlike in ESB, where it was the other way around.
     
    #49 LarsSkywalker, Dec 3, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    There are a million ways to show this without it being rescuing Han. Han is not important to showing Luke growing up. That's the point.
    Rescuing Han is required because they decided to not kill him off in ESB. The actual first act of ROTJ is entirely superfluous to the story of the next 2 acts. It's strange. It's not useless but it really doesn't change or influence the story much at all. Replace that with Luke taking out some Stormtroopers or saving Mon Mothma from the Empire and you can get the same level of impact on how he's grown.
     
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  11. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    I seem to be lost here....enlighten me about what you seem to know about one of our mods being "guilty" of. Please spell it out for us...
     
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  12. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I didn't like his story arc in TLJ, but I don't dispute that he had an arc. And I think you are saying (and if so I agree) that the developmental arc seemed to reach it's end in TLJ.

    If he has a role such as Lando or Han his journey to secondary character side will be complete.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2018 ---
    Disagree here. Han's rescue has impact beyond just Han. We see how Luke has changed, we see a manifestation of Lando's change, and we see Leia coming AS a rescuer instead of the party being rescued. The rescue definitely had meaning beyond Han and had impact downstream IMO.

    And seriously, I'm not going to argue that it was a strong thread, but unraveling what appeared to be a potential love triangle from ESB to ROTJ did "have legs". It was something that at least logistically, needed to be tied off (especially given how the next trilogy was supposed to proceed with Jacen, Jaina, and Anakin Solo). I don't think we can retroactively say it wasn't important then, because the new canon goes a different direction.

    And as I mentioned to another poster, I don't like Finn's arc in TLJ, but that's not the same as saying his arc didn't exist. My specific argument is that it was essentially the same arc from TFA with a dab of "Rebel Scum" special sauce. I've already given lengthy explanations as to why I think the arc was both unimaginative and contradictory with pre-existing metadata, so I won't re-litigate that here. I will say that without knowing anything about EPIX, we have existing story lines and reasons to follow Poe, Kylo, and Rey. I know what they are and don't have to speculate what their role and relevance will be.

    Finn may end up having relevance and a major role, but neither you or anyone else has any clue what that will be. We have to speculate; precisely because Rian doesn't give a story that fosters any continuity across the trilogy, he simply says, "this is what Finn becomes". Unless he is going to be doing something different in EPIX than what he's done in TFA and TLJ, why do we need to follow him? If you tell me he's going to fight the FO in EPIX, I'll say he fought the FO in TFA and TLJ. If you say he's going to infiltrate the FO on a mission, I'll say he did both in TFA and TLJ (which is part of why I don't think a Storm Trooper Rebellion will work now).

    I'd argue there is no reason to follow Finn based on story points left by TLJ, so EPIX is going to have to conjure one that will likely have no connective tissue to the other 2 movies.
     
  13. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    I thought the same of you. I didn't direct anything at you, but you did towards me when you accused me of ranking a I created myself. C'mon now. You should know better than that. These forums have been filled with people constantly pointing out who is the lead. It was obvious that it mattered to people. Despite what Kathleen said, and what was obviously shown TFA.
    1. I look at this as I would go to a restaurant to order a meal. You have the main course, but everything else that goes along with it makes the meal that much more special. Star Wars wouldn't have been the same if Han died. Besides Yoda's speech to Luke on Degobah. My favorite parts of the OT were with Han. My favorite character in the prequel trilogy was Qui Gon. You know what both of those characters had in common.... They thought for themselves. Finn was that in TFA. Until Rian neutered him.

    2. He doesn't even know his real name or where he comes from. Being a rebel and then being named by someone in this rebel alliance is no different than what he had with the FO. Except the other side's propaganda.

    3. That what? The story needs a bunch of nameless and homeless soldiers to fight their wars without regard to who they really are? Point noted.
    Finn fighting the FO in TFA was far more satisfying than what we got in TLJ.
     
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  14. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    'neutered'? really bro? that's a sickening way of describing something that you don't like purely for shock value here.

    so what plans do Disney have for Finn's character? is there one more saga episode left and then that's it... or is it possible that they are going slowly with this character because maybe... just maybe they have big plans for him?

    he's a superb actor and he is hyped up every time he talks about Star Wars.. i'd have him signed up for more movies already if i was running the show.

    Yes we need more Finn moving forward. we will get a lot more Finn moving forward in my opinion. might not be in ep9 though ;)
     
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  15. Trooper212

    Trooper212 Rebel Official

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    Not only that but once again we are back to where we were after TFA. The only descriptor for Finn is the base descriptor of every other main and supporting protagonist. It's also the main and only descriptor of every extra.
    Good point, I didn't even put those two together. He left the First Order and literally became a mirror image to FN-2187 all the way down to being basically incompetent in comparison to his former self. He might even get promoted in the Resistance based purely on their lack of numbers whereas in the First Order he would have actually earned his rank.

    Again, that's speculation at this point.
     
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  16. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    Many wanted to make Rey the star of this trilogy without much to stand on. At a quick glance it may appear to be this way, but when you look deeper there is something different. Rey is the most powerful character in this trilogy, but Finn has been the most important. Nothing happens if Finn never decides to defect from the FO. SKB would have never been destroyed if Finn decides not to go back to help Rey. By the time TFA ended. Rey still had no motivations, so seeing her as the end all be all is premature. The only character that had any motivation was Finn. Even if it was to run away to the Outer Rim. It's more motivation than we've seen from Rey.
    Rey was a tag along to Finn. A victim of being taken against her will by Kylo, a messenger for Leia, and an accomplice to Kylo by helping him become Supreme leader. We had a blue print with TFA. Then it became all about Rey who still doesn't have a real purpose, and it's one of the reasons why there isn't much to look forward to. I don't know if Rey was ever meant to have the purpose some want to see her have. She was just the girl along for the ride.
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    These are all things that could have easily been shown in other ways.
    Luke could have been doing nearly anything and you could have seen his change.
    And Lando's change was really in ESB when he double crossed the Empire. He was in it to help the Rebels at that point. And all him being at the rescue shows is that he is still present which could have been done in other ways also.
    The point is, remove Han from the movie. Change the rescue of Han to the rescue of captured Mon Mothma. The story of ROTJ doesn't change. It's still the same movie with a mildly changed set piece.

    It was tied off with the revelation of Leia being Luke's sister. It didn't really need Han to be tied off. That's the point.

    It's not the same because in TFA he is just breaking free of the FO. He doesn't change. He doesn't commit to a cause. He doesn't CARE about the Resistance in TFA. All he cares about is getting as far from the fight as possible. He is set to run from Maz's castle without Rey (to show where he is at this stage). He doesn't CARE until Rey is captured; then he aids the Resistance. Upon helping them he reveals he has no actual plans of helping them but just wanted to save Rey. He's still not fighting FOR the cause. In the TLJ, he wakes up and tries to run...yet again to save Rey and just get the eff away from the FO. In doing so he's confronted by Rose. Rose represents his "pull to the light". Through his run with Rose, he is introduced to DJ. DJ is what he [Finn] seeks to be. Running from the FO and not picking sides. Just getting the hell out of the way. He is presented with two choices. Rose and the Resistance or DJ and being "free." When DJ betrays them, Finn is confronted with the fact that you can't run forever and eventually it will catch up to you. In that moment he has to make his choice. He announces himself, for the first time, as part of the cause. He now CARES about it. He doesn't just want to run but he wants to fight.
    That's not the same arc in both movies.

    So while you say all this about Finn. It also applies to Han. His story in ROTJ means absolutely nothing to the actual story of ROTJ and the main themes/plots. You keep repeating that Han's rescue shows things in OTHER characters but it doesn't have a thing to do with Han. Han is a maguffin in the first act and a generic Rebel soldier in the next 2.
     
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  18. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    If that's the case, then people should never have girlfriends, boyfriends or any kind of relationships. It doesn't matter if someone is more "powerful" (in any kind) than you are, as long as you like or even love that person, you will alway show concern for that being.
     
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  19. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    Are we that desperate to tell a story where the stronger person needs the weaker person to protect them and expect it to sell? Lol. See how far that goes. How about this for an idea. How about we make both characters more equally balanced, and get away from this see-saw of who is seen as more powerful. It only makes the story weaker, and shows insecurities.
     
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  20. NinjaRen

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    Well, that's just you. I've never compared Rey with Finn or Finn with Rey. They both are their own and also quite different characters. Both have their strenghts and weaknesses.

    Characters need to be unbalanced to each other to create conflict. Yeah, it could have been done much better in TLJ... I agree with that.
     
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