Do We Need Finn Going Forward

excluding Ben/Kylo.. couldn't the same be said of every other character in the trilogy?
and at this point in the OT (after ESB).. excluding Luke, couldn't the same be said of every other character in that trilogy?

we have a whole entire movie coming in which any character could go in any kind of direction. i don't know if many realize this.. but Lando only had something like 15 minutes of screen time in the OT. you don't need 8 hours of movie time to tell a story or to see a certain character take a journey.

also.. because TLJ carried on straight away from TFA with no time jump, there's only so many things the writers can do with all the characters. A hell of a lot happened over a very short period of time.

i think the galaxy DOES need Finn moving forward. i know i do.

 

Now he fights. Now he establishes himself as a character independent of what used to define him. He becomes a leader.
In the OT we were just told who was in charge or randomly informed Han, Lando etc were just "anointed" Generals. We have a chance to see Finn grow into that role for the first time in a Star Wars movie.

 

Agreed. Part of that is because Han and Lando were established as older guys unlike Finn.

 

Finn was a leader the moment he decided not to kill the villagers on Jakku. Finn showed throughout TFA that he was a leader. His plan helped lead the Resistance to victory, right? What he needs is a purpose that sets him apart from the others. Finn has a different perspective than the Resistance. He knows far more than they do about the FO, and that should have been more central to the trilogy. So far the Resistance has only used his knowledge to help them. Finn needs to use his knowledge to help the storm troopers that were taken as children too. This is why I will always disagree with him being a part of the Resistance. He brings more to the table than let's just shoot up the bad guys.

 

He already did all of that in TFA and again in TLJ, none of that separates him in importance from anyone else. So as @Rayjefury asked, does that not make his story complete? Also, if we're just going to watch someone "become a leader" wouldn't it make more sense to follow Poe since he's going to be the leader of the Resistance? Why should we follow Finn growing into someone that's just going to be taking orders from someone else?

 

He literally did none of that in TFA or TLJ.
His motivations are not for that of the Resistance. It's all for his own preservation and his own self-interest with Rey.
It's not until AFTER his fight with Phasma he announces he's actually going to fight FOR the cause. Now he gets to do that.

Poe is being groomed for the Leia role.
I don't understand the last part of your question @Trooper212 and I don't think I'm supposed to since literally every Rebel or Resistance fighter we've met save Mon Mothma and Leia have been taking orders from higher ups. I feel like that's a cheap trap question.

Finn wasn't a leader when he decided not to kill villagers. Painting it that way is dishonest and you know it. But I expect nothing less from someone who throws ridiculous ad hominem attacks suggesting people don't see Finn as a human being.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 8, 2018 ---

Perhaps. But I always found it funny they gave Han a high rank despite the fact he bailed on the Rebellion 2x before coming back each time lol.

 

In TFA: He fought against the First Order throughout the movie
He lead an infiltration on Starkiller, he even prioritized the Resistance's goals over his own
He stopped allowing his past as a stormtrooper to define him

All accomplished in TFA

 

That is considered being a leader. He was given orders, and he refused to follow. He followed his moral compass. Which was stronger than the conditioning he went through with the FO. If you are referring to him leading a group then you are talking literal. Considering he was taking orders his whole life I consider saying no as the first steps to being a leader. His greatest accomplishments was doing what he wanted. Deciding not to fire on the villagers. Helping himself and Poe escape. Create the plan to rescue Rey as well as helping the Resistance were all his decisions. He didn't have to do any of those things. He did them because he wanted to.

The causes for the Resistance shouldn't be the same for Finn. We didn't follow the Resistance. We followed Finn. The fact that JJ didn't have Finn join them in TFA when he could have should tell you his reasons for fighting should be his own. Finn telling Han he was only there to save Rey should also tell you that. He spent his entire life on the other side. How do you defect and call yourself a Rebel a week later when there was never any ambition to become one? The Resistance is just a generalized group. It could be anybody. Just like it was in the original trilogy. Did you care more about what the Rebellion wanted or did you care more what Luke and his friends wanted? We heard what Rose wanted from Finn, but what she wanted had nothing to do with helping him with what he wanted.

 

I find your use of "we" very interesting.

To be fair, neither have you. You've stated numerous times you don't like Finn's arc and laid out your subjective case as to why.

Finn had a well defined arc in TFA and TLJ. That doesn't mean people had to like it. Finn is one of the leads in this firm and it's silly to suggest his presence in the next film doesn't matters.

 

I get what you are saying. Anything I add when it comes to Finn is based on what has actually happened, but is not being promoted or discussed. There has been such a strong push to have the story go in a certain direction that anything else brings moans and groans. Even if there version of the story was never the one that they planned on telling.

Right after TFA was released all the major media outlets focused on Rey, and it was ridiculously over the top. There are only so many characters in the Star Wars Universe so the question concerning her parents never should have been as big as it was. Then the next big thing that was promoted was Reylo. Say what? I thought I saw a movie where a former storm trooper and a scavenger girl bonded over the entire movie, and their motivations became each other. Ever since then the fans have been divided. TLJ was just a culmination of the online arguments and promotion to move away from JJ's story. All of a sudden the screams Finn heard became some nonsense excuse to ignore him having the force. Then not one mention of a lone soldier breaking his conditioning over a two year period as if that is something people do everyday. It didn't matter what Kathleen said. People have decided that Rey is the one and only lead. Even though she has no story to follow. This is why the only question people could come up with was who are her parents. She literally has nothing else to build a story around.

A story can be told with Finn barely doing anything, but like TLJ I don't think it will be satisfying. Characters are going to have to change no matter what. Besides having the force. Rey has no purpose being in this story. Finn knows all the people that needs to be known in order to make this trilogy different, but when you ignore him and put all the emphasis on Rey. You just get a generic story that has no purpose.

I watch a few Mike Zeroh videos and he promotes Rey, Kylo, and Luke as the leads. Lol. A dead character gets more recognition than Finn. How did that turn out for TLJ? Just because Luke is in it doesn't make it a blockbuster. TFA did better without him.

 

Finn fought for himself. He didn't fight for a cause.
Each time the infiltration was purely of self-interest. To save and protect Rey.

It's okay because we are both entrenched in our views of this. You haven't exactly provided anything new either.

 

Ah, I think that explains a lot actually.

The narrative arcs in TLJ and TFA aren't very difficult to explain. There's so many characters in the film the motivations have to be simple for there to be any development at all. The Avengers has basically no character development except for Thanos. Star Wars doesn't really have the luxury. One could argue that Han Solo's part in TFA was too big because it robbed valuable time from the new cast.

 

Which is fair. I mean, Everyone but Luke got very rudimentary development in the OT as well. Han does the same thing twice then is just sort of present in the third film.
Here's a "bold" take: Finn and Poe have gotten more character work in 2 films than Han and Lando did in two films.
Yet somehow it's not enough for some.

 

Han's arc simply becomes a romance plot device after Hoth. He doesn't have much to do in Return of the Jedi. It probably would have worked better if he was piloting the Falcon during the battle. Of the OT films it's a bit of mess in that department.

 

100% agree.

 

I agree with you to certain extent. Finn wanted to leave the FO and start a new life( he wanted to run). Han only cared about making money, to pay off his debts, but Chewie and Luke must have pierced his heart because Han returned and helped Luke destroy DS. Finn wanted to help as well, his own selfish motivations for Rey and finding a new life took a back seat on Crait( He also gave Poe Rey's tracking device before going on the mission to find the master code breaker). He almost sacrificed himself for the Resistance but Rose stopped him. He no longer had selfish motivations, so much so, he wanted to run out and help Luke. But Poe saw things differently. Luke was a distraction for them to (RUN) escape. The Resistance's resources were exhausted. Much like Finn, the Resistance had to run.
In ANH, spiritually Ob1 advised Luke to RUN on DS. OB1 was a distraction for Luke, Leia, and Han to RUN. Therefore, Finn is needed. Just like Han he somewhat found a home. Although, In ESB Han had to leave once again to pay off his debts to Jabba, but when rescued in ROTJ continued to help the Rebels. Han and Finn had different motivations, they are not similar at all. Han is a smuggler. Finn is a man that wanted a new life in the outer rim. But, now he may want to stay for Rose or to continue the fight with the Resistance. We shall see in episode 9 where Finn's arc will end. Will Finn run off with Rose? Will Finn's feelings for Rey reemerge? Will Finn stay and continue the fight? Similar to Han, who stayed to fight in ROTJ.

 

Chewbacca has been doing what Finn is expected to do ever since 1977. I don't know why we need a trilogy built around it.

Rian did two things in this movie that has me 100% convinced he used evidence from online to make this movie.

1) The strong need to bring Rey and Kylo together. The Reylo people get the most recognition, and he probably felt this is what people wanted. The problem is most people who watch movies don't talk online about it. The motivation for Rey and Finn was each other. You just can't ignore that. The desire to never talk about it or bring it up doesn't mean it didn't happen. Rian ignoring it made Rey worse as a character, because I don't know what she is fighting for. She didn't fight for the Resistance in TFA, and that was fine, but she didn't do much to help them in TLJ either. Even though I don't agree with Finn's reasons for helping the Resistance. At least his actions have shown he is all in. Rey has done more to help Kylo than anyone else. All she did was move some rocks for the Resistance. It's no surprise some believe Reylo can happen.

2) The Rey parent reveal was Rian trolling the fans. Kylo said you're parents were nobodies. Rey never brought up what her parents were. The audience did based on what she was doing in the movie. All she said was she was waiting for them.

This is why I say Finn is the hero of this trilogy. Between the two protagonist. Finn is the only one who is strong in his convictions, and has done more to help the Resistance as well as the galaxy.