Do We Need Finn Going Forward

You could argue that Leia did the exact same for Rey. Rey felt defeated after everyone escaped on Crait. She felt lost - it was Leia who pulled her out of that funk. It was Leia who told her "we have everything we need." Much like how when Leia reaches the end of her will and feels defeated, lost and hopeless, Luke comes in and says that "no one's ever really gone," or something to that effect.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you're not wrong in that Rose deserves FAR more credit than she's received, but I disagree with saying that all the effects of a moral speech shouldn't just be given to the speech-maker. It's up to the person listening to change their mind, outset, and actions too.

As a side note, what is the point of this thread right now? It's personally very tiring to be a fan of Finn when it seems every single thread about him devolves into his usefulness (or uselessness depending on the points being argued). Do I love Finn? YES. Do I think he got shafted in TLJ? More or less yes because Rian left most of his scenes on the cutting room floor. But do I still have hope for him in Ep IX and beyond? Yes I do.

I'm gonna take a break from this thread and other Finn-based ones because I'm just tired of this...

Thank you so much for this! You good fellow are a beacon of light.

 

you aren’t alone in feeling this way.

We’ve had a whole year of the same few posters posting the same things over and over and over again.
I respect their unhappiness with Finn’s journey in the ST, but their lack of respect for other members and this community by spamming the same comments continuously does not sit well with me.

it is tiring bro

 

Damn I hate this, but it is so true.

 

Before TLJ Finn's #1 priority is Rey. He doesn't want to join the Resistance. He wants to run.

During TLJ he's given two points of view
DJ: Don't join
Rose: Join

Finn chooses to fight to the point of sacrificing himself for the cause. That's a heck of a character change from the beginning of the film. Getting caught trying to run is a failure and Finn learned from that failure.

Great heroes are surrounded by great friends. Luke doesn't blow up the Death Star without Han. He doesn't get trained without Yoda. Finn learned from Rose. Why is that a problem?

 

Finn needs to hang out with Lando in Episode 9!

 

This I agree with. What I was getting at was that Finn's presumable promotion will simply exist because of a lack of options. That to me pales in comparison very much to Poe who was being groomed to be the leader of the Resistance and Rey who was being trained to be the next great Jedi whether or not anyone else was there to potentially fill those roles. Like you said, Rose, if we're being honest, deserves a promotion ahead of Finn. If not that she at least deserves to be ahead of him in rank because she was part of the Resistance and supported it's cause far longer than he has and demonstrated the requisite commitment.

 

There should be a third option. Ignore both of them, and live your life. Finn was looking to do that in TFA. The only reason he came back was Rey. The person he asked to come with him. DJ and Rose don't make sense to Finn's story in my opinion.

Why would anyone stop someone from doing something they don't want to do? As Finn told Maz. You don't know me, and Rose doesn't know Finn. She is not his friend. Friends don't taser people and prevent them from doing what they want. Friends and grownups give you the space to make up your own mind. Finn was never given that opportunity in TLJ. Except to voluntarily kill himself for some people he just met. He was never with the Resistance, so he should have that right to leave. Just like Han did in the OT, but came back. When Luke was disappointed in Han's decision for not helping the Rebels in the fight. Leia told him Han has to follow his own path. No one can choose it for you. Why is it different when it comes to Finn? Maz understood and respected Finn. Leia understood and respected Han. Even Rey respected Finn's decision. Even though it broke her heart. Rose comes along and doesn't respect his decision, and it's okay?

There is a reason the OT characters and the story is so well loved. Every choice the characters made were their choices. Through and through. Finn has been through far worse, because he never had a life of his own, and Rose comes along to take that away from him. Rose is hated for good reasons. She is an insecure character.

 

That's the DJ option.
DJ: “It's all a machine partner, live free don't join.”
That's DJ telling Finn to live his life.

There's some issues with this idea.

A) They just met
B) They weren't friends
C) He was deserting a military ship

Rose is a fantastic character. She's heartbroken at the death of her sister. She's a nobody who gets swept away in the adventure and rises to the occasion.

Hate the film all you want, but I suggest you watch the film again if you want to keep discussing it. As the DJ quote illustrates, you seemed to have misunderstood portions of the film.

 

No Disney Lucas Film does need Finn to go Forward I have clear proof now from a leak that was deleted on 4 chan about a month about but the recent leaks of concept art that was add to Reddit proves proves that 4 chan leak is true. It said in this leak

Spoiler: Spoiler

that Rey is going to be related to Padme

. In the recent leak concept art letter H shows Rey looks just like

Spoiler

Padme

.

Spoiler

This same leak on 4 Chan that was deleted about a month ago talks about Finn also from what is posted in the leak

Spoiler

that Finn will die in 9

Along with this leak there not much Finn will be doing in 9.

I will post the leak take it with a grain of salt.

First with Rey

Spoiler

http://boards.4channel.org/tv/thread/108011472#q108011472

I'm lucky enough to have been working with some incredible people in writing Star Wars IX, and together, we've created hopefully the best star wars movie since Disney purchased the franchise. After much deliberation, I've decided to embrace that you only live once, so I'll be sharing as much as I can with you- the anonymous internet- because it'll be fun to live my life knowing I let you all learn these plot points before anyone else. Feel free to ignore me or claim I'm a fake; you'll pay money to see this for yourself sooner or later so it doesn't bother me.

Obviously, there are some things I can't get too specific about to protect my identity, as well as to keep this vague enough to retain plausible deniability. But I'll be happy to answer any inquiries that I'm able to.

I'll first be going over the main characters before delving into the general plot of the film. No idea how long this will be when all the filming and editing is finished, but we estimate this film to be about the length of Star Wars VIII, if not a little shorter. All of the film will be filled with satisfying, conflict-driven action, introspective character insights, a stunning mix of digital effects and practical effects, and memorable dialogue that hopefully makes you feel a range of emotions!

With all that said, enjoy this insider info, and may the Force be with you
>>
Anonymous 01/04/19(Fri)03:00:54 No.▶
>>108011713 >>108011883 >>108011983 >>108012038 >>108015014 >>108015900 >>108018908 >>108020260
File: Jedi Rey.png (64 KB, 600x337)
>Rey's parents
What if I told you that Rey's family lineage is simultaneously composed of "nobodies" as far as The Force is concerned and is a hugely significant family that has played a central role in how the greater Star Wars saga played out, going all the way back to pre-Episode 1? Confused? Well let me go even further: Rey is related to Ben Solo. Care to guess how? Do you think this is impossible? Well, we've actually managed to create, in my opinion, an incredible twist that allows both VII and VIII to be correct about how they handle Rey's character. This background expansion for Rey incorporates old material from II, as well as video games and other filler from Legends, but I've drug this out enough so here it is: Rey is a Naberrie. Kind of. Who are those people? Every Star Wars fan knows one already: Padme!
For all you super nerds who have watched all the behind the scenes and deleted scenes and read all the books and everything, you know that Padme only ever had the kids Luke and Leia, but she also had siblings back at Naboo. In some cut footage from II, Padme actually goes home and we see her family. I guess Amidala is some kind of adopted name for the rolaty of Naboo? Her sister, Sola, would have some kids of her own, and some of those descendants were actually involved in the politics of Naboo within the Empire.
>>
Anonymous 01/04/19(Fri)03:06:14 No.▶
>>108011885 >>108014771 >>108015014 >>108018908
File: Padme Naboo.jpg (146 KB, 320x480)
>>108011569
There's a few reasons we've decided to go this route with Rey's character development. Maybe the biggest reason is that this allows us to address the many criticisms that Rey is some unrealistically active female character. In making her somewhat related to Padme- a character who by all accounts was well-received and praised as a positive and successful representation of a woman protagonist, Rey has an example the audience can point to for reference in how Rey is able to be an active protagonist herself. Politically, Padme was one of the few real "grey" characters in Star Wars by the time of III. She talks with Anakin about her fears that the Separatists aren't complete bad guys and how the Republic might be transforming into a force she doesn't want to be a part of. Rey, too, straddles the line of traditional good and evil perspectives, and by the end of VIII Rey has demonstrated that she isn't bound to serve any particular organization, rather, Rey aligns herself with the good people in the world, and with hope. This decision also allows for some great expository dialogue (something that we've noted as fans agreeing was one of the greatest parts of Solo) in that a brief back-and-forth between characters can establish Rey's lineage while also expanding the lore of the Star Wars saga with homage's back to the prequels and original trilogy. Some of Sola's descendants became active within the Imperial Senate, which was remarked as being disbanded in IV. Throughout Legends, many games and books handled Naboo as a planet with Rebel sympathies but unable to act on them due to the Empire's close watch over them. Having Rey trace her roots back to Naboo is one way of tying her character to this rebel ideal. Since the Emperor also hailed from Naboo, this also ties Rey to the Dark side of the Force somewhat, partially explaining her near-instant draw towards it in VIII. Rey was left on Jakku to protect her from her greater family's destiny

If you notice with Rey and this new concept art she looks much like

Spoiler

her.

Now Finn's Spoiler Leak:

Spoiler

>Finn and Rose
Finn will have worked his way up the Resistance military hierarchy similar to how Han Solo went from a hired pilot in IV to a general in VI. He will have brothers-in-arms that he cares about, and his character will have found meaning in preparing his fellow soldiers for the eventual final battle against the First Order. This contrasts with his beginning in VII, where he didn't feel connected at all to his fellow Stormtroopers. His main conflict will be his identity as more than a soldier, which is where Rose comes in. Rose will influence Finn towards a life beyond fighting and war and conflict. Rose will still be involved in the Resistance too, but she will openly speak of life after the war, whereas Finn doesn't think of that. Finn is focused solely on taking down the First Order and preventing them from destroying any more lives. In the climactic final showdown, this plot line will resolve with the death of Finn. His character can't live a life other than being a soldier, so it would be strange for him to "retire." Also, by IX, Finn will have fully realized his dream for a cause to fight for that he believes in, so dying doing what he loves will be poetic. And once Finn dies, Rose will live on after the war, but she won't be happy. Similar to Frodo at the end of Return of the King, Rose isn't content living in a galaxy free of the First Order because what she truly wanted was a galaxy with Finn in it. So, for Rose, she wins the war against the First Order, but she can't celebrate because her loss- once again this theme of consequences and death and the legacy of war and conflict- ruins the future for her.

Finn and Rey's relationship in the movie:

Spoiler

>>108013861
Poe will be the one contacting her. Rey will ask about BB-8 similar to how a relative inquires about how the kids are doing, general light-hearted comedy stuff. Poe will turn the conversation into a serious call when he informs her that the Knights of Ren have wiped out another blossoming Jedi school. Rey will be upset but also will demonstrate that she disagrees with people starting their own schools. Poe says the time may be coming where she will need to return to the main Resistance group and fight in a final confrontation. Rey will admit that if nothing else, it would be good to see him and Finn again.

The film will then cut to Finn, who is teaching a class of new recruits about Stormtrooper tactics and fighting the First Order. When class is dismissed, Finn will talk with one student as they leave the classroom together, whom I will henceforth refer to as Student A. Here it's established that the two have a friendship and care about each other. Finn will leave to attend a meeting among the higher ups that is led by Poe. Poe will detail that he spoke to Rey who still isn't returning. When some attendees complain that they will never win if the Jedi won't return to help them, Poe reminds everyone that it's up to everyone to contribute to victory against the First Order and they can't just wait around for some Force-wielding savior to appear. After the meeting, Finn meets up with Rose. The two are still just friends, but there is clearly something more to their relationship. Rose tells Finn all he does is work and he needs to rest more, to which Finn replies that he'll take it easy after the First Order is defeated. Rose talks about her dreams of a life after the war, and it's first revealed that Finn has never thought about what he'll do after the war.

I do feel that it is fake, but once it was deleted from 4 chan i saved it, and well the i seen the concept art of Rey, I thought aout this leak and it might be true. Finn aspect of it shows another trashy Finn story.

 

I know DJ's option, but it treats Finn as if he doesn't have any experience of his own. I can't remember at this point, but how does DJ know Finn isn't totally in with the Resistance?
Rose is a character that is swept up into the moment of emotions, but they shouldn't supersede Finn who lost more than her.

In my opinion. Finn is the most important character to this story, because of his background with the FO. Besides Leia, he also has the strongest motivations to stop them. The motivations for the Resistance are nothing out of the ordinary, but Finn's motivations are key to making the fight not be the typical good vs bad scenario.

Rian had an opportunity to explore that with Canto Bight with the slave children, but it was ignored. If children are slaves. Where are their parents? Are they on the same world or were they taken as well? Rian doesn't give Finn the opportunity to ask these questions, but it's those kinds of questions that could have shown that Finn had some interests of his own separate from the Resistance.

What made the OT unique was Vader being Luke's father. This put Luke on a different path than the Rebellion, and his motivations became different than what they were in ESB. Luke carried a burden in ROTJ, and it was shown when he told Leia that Vader was his father. His purpose became two fold, and based on Finn's background. He has all of the potential to carry a similar burden. Just like Luke tried to save his father. Finn has the potential to save other stormtroopers.

 

On Crait when Finn says “We have allies, people believe in Leia. They'll get our message. They'll come. But we have to buy time." Rose isn't pushing him to speak as a member of the Resistance or to fight back. This is Finn picking a side. He's heard DJ's worldview. He's seen the First Order. He's heard Rose's story, but it's his choice.

How do you know Finn has lost more than her? They've both suffered. I'm not sure why it's a competition.

I understand you hate this film, but it's difficult to have a discussion when you're consistently missing plot points. I would ask you to watch it again, but you've made it clear where you stand.

 

I think it might be a bit more complex than that. He's not only FO knowledgeable, but he's sort of the Patient Zero of disillusioned FO stormtroopers. In some movies, that would be enough to make him the sole protagonist.

And I've seen a lot of people excited for the potential that holds.

 

That's the point (outside of the ones in the deleted scene).

That's direction for him. I think that's pretty easy to see.

 

Personally, I would have ditched the whole hyperspace tracking / lack of fuel McGuffin.
(We've already seen that The Falcon and Jango Fett can be traced through hyperspace - it doesn't matter HOW it is done, the Resistance should be aware it CAN be done... somehow)

It would have made more sense to me that, instead, it could have become apparent that the First Order were able to track the Resistance's escape because someone was revealing their location. A traitor onboard. Finn would become the obvious suspect.
I feel that this would have been a better way to develop Finn's character, to have him have to prove himself as being committed to the Resistance cause and earn their trust. It would also have provided a divide in the ranks - rather than the Poe / Holdo clash of egos, it could have been Poe vouching for Finn as a friend and Holdo not being comfortable having a former First Order trooper on her craft. It would have also give Holdo a genuine reason to withhold information and mistrust Poe for siding with Finn - if there is a traitor onboard.

Perhaps this situation could have come to a head while Finn is still in a coma - The Resistance jump to hyperspace, and the First Order are right behind them. They flee again, same thing happens. Then they realise there may be a mole - they begin to suspect Finn, even though he is comatose... maybe they have some way of tracking him, they were at Takodana moments after Finn arrived....?
And Finn awakes in the midst of this developing rift that he has unwittingly caused - those who support him and those who think he is a threat to security.
Maybe the rest of the Resistance opts to split up and take their chances and we are left with the one cruiser still being pursued.
Obviously, I'm just throwing this out off the top of my head, but maybe Holdo is the traitor? Or maybe she isn't, maybe it turns out to be someone she trusted among the ranks of the Resistance - but either way it carries more weight if she ends up sacrificing / redeeming herself to let everyone else escape after selling the others out / putting her faith in the wrong guy doubting Finn and Poe etc.

It just didn't jive with me that Finn was right back where he was halfway through TFA - ie wanting to run away - as soon as he awakens at the start of TLJ. Its kind of a regression from any sense of development from the final act of Episode VII.
I'm all for characters being complex and their motives being unclear, but I just don't feel Finn has that depth - he just seems to keep flip-flopping between helping the Resistance and wanting to leave without a clear motive for either. You could perhaps compare that to Han wanting to leave the Rebellion on Hoth in TESB, but with him it was always clear that had got more than he bargained for after being hired simply to provide transport to Alderaan, and that his debt to Jabba was well established. Hell, the Marvel comics even had him splitting to go and settle that debt straight after the credits rolled on the events of ANH, so it was clearly something that felt natural for him as a character.

I don't get that with Finn, he's just not as well defined as a character so far, IMHO. In fact, I feel that way about pretty much all of the characters in these sequels. And that's not a huge criticism - I just feel they've been developing sideways, rather than forwards in a cohesive and purposeful way, and that's really just a symptom of the way these movies have been made.

I kind of like the idea of Finn becoming the inspiration for more First Order troopers to become aware there is a way to break away if they are disillusioned with their lot, but we're already into the final movie with a lot of loose ends to tie up - it's going to feel kind of rushed if that particular thread is explored now, unless it is the central strand of this next movie...