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Does anyone care about the characters that are left for Episode IX?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by VOODOO, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I cared for the new characters after The Force Awakens so yeah.
     
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  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Hux the revenge.

    tumblr_onailmLRiI1vc9ofuo1_500.gif
     
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  3. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    It's not neglect you say? Leia knew Snoke was after her son, and that is canon, she said it. Yet she did absolutely nothing about it until the problem became too much to deal with. That's neglect no matter how you look at it.

    It's a perfectly good analogy. The force in SW and a very high IQ in the real world are both very useful gifts that can be employed in evil purposes. Both are great from an objective viewpoint, but can become destructive in the right circumstances. I don't how how I can make it simpler than that.

    Emotional instability is NEVER a natural personality trait. Impulsiveness, irascibility, impatience, these can be (and often are) natural traits, but emotional instability is something different altogether, and can only be caused by neglect, trauma or neurological disorders. And it's safe to say young Ben Solo didn't suffer from a condition that affected his brain.

    What went between Kylo and Snoke was established flawlessly in both TFA and TLJ. Each of their interactions reveals everything the fans need to know. Of course Snoke offered Kylo something that appealed to him, that's how he trapped him. He offered praise (a false form of affection), (fake) safety, a purpose. I'm not going to dissect that relationship again. For the third time, read the last pages in the Reylo thread. Also, Snoke didn't succeed to turn Kylo evil, he only managed to keep him under his control and use him. If you can't see that despite Adam Driver's brilliant acting...Oh well, it means you refuse to see it.

    Not a monster, just someone who likes to think that things are better than they actually are while being distracted by her job. And she tried to help him too late. And the help was so great that he woke up with his uncle thinking about killing him.
     
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  4. clustercosmos

    clustercosmos Rebelscum

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    I care about Kylo. I did not like lots of things in TLJ but I always eagerly anticipated his next scene. There are lots of exciting paths his character can take.

    I really enjoyed watching Benicio Del Toro playing DJ. If he is in it I will be pleased, but I am not overly optimistic he will be.

    I am not too bothered about anybody else.
     
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  5. bigbayblue

    bigbayblue Rebel Official

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    It's canon that she did absolutely nothing about it? Where was that written?

    Being really smart, doesn't come remotely close to the level of danger that having the ability to manipulate the Force does. Save for three exceptions, all of the Force users that have appeared in the Star Wars movies, down to the smallest child, have either been killed, turned evil or gone into exile. And it's hard to argue that for Ben Solo himself, one of those exceptions, having the Force hasn't been working out too well so far - given that literally every single terrible thing that you are arguing happened to Ben beyond his control, happened because he is strong with the Force.

    This is a danger that Leia would be all too aware of, and yet you're interpreting her not wanting that for her son as something that makes her a horrible parent.

    Why is it safe to say that? Emotional instability is considered to be very common in adolescents.

    "I don't know how I can make is simpler than that." "It means you refuse to see it". You're very fond of ending paragraphs with condescending remarks.

    Likes to think things are better than they are, is very different than sensing a extreme pain in your own child and choosing to do absolutely nothing about it. Also there is nothing established that says sending Ben to Luke was Leia's first and only attempt to help him once she sensed the darkness growing in him.
     
  6. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    I will see yall there!

     
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  7. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

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  8. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    What did she do besides shipping her son to his uncle?

    Do you understand what an analogy is and what is its purpose? Would you have preferred if I compared the force in SW with the force in the real world?

    Bad things that happened to force users (including Ben Solo) were caused by evil, power thirsty darksiders. You're implying that the problem is not the evil hunting people with a special gift, but the gift itself. Or that it's better to lack a special gift if it comes with any risks. That's ridiculous.

    Yes, adolescents with no guidance/bad guidance/unstable families. It is by no means a natural occurrence.
    And it's safe to say that Ben Solo didn't have an actual brain disorder because SW never revolved around physical ailments. It's a space opera, not a hospital drama. Are you picking on little things thinking you'll prove your point eventually? It's not working.

    Yes I am, don't think I didn't notice. Should I be more friendly when countering flawed arguments?

    Snoke wouldn't have made a playground out of Ben Solo's head if he trusted and felt safe among his family members. Evil can't reach a healthy mind, a happy soul. And THAT was his family's responsibility. Whatever they did, it was so little that it added up to nothing.
     
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  9. The Lurker

    The Lurker Rebel Trooper

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    I think that we can forget that the reason we all love the OT characters so passionately is that they have been with us for so long and have effectively been ingrained into most of the Western worlds psyche for several generations. To put a bunch of characters that we have known for just over 3 years up against that is asking a lot! I mean, if we dissect a lot of the complaints about characters we can apply a lot of flaws from the OT characters to their modern equivalents. Han, for instance, basically stays the same from the end of ANH. This is a complaint levelled against Finn a lot. Rey is a Mary Sue and the same could be said about Luke in several examples.

    The other thing that is bandied about it that Kylo Ren is not as intimidating as Vader. Would Vader be as awesome if the OT was released today or would he be seen as just another generic bad guy? The fact that we have seen him being an utter bad ass for 30 years can be a powerful influence on perceptions. Realising that no bad guy could live up to a childhood icon, the ST writers have had to develop a different type of antagonist. For some the multifaceted villain works, while for others it comes off as contrived and lacking in execution.

    My intent is not to bash the OT cast as they are classic characters, and I'm sure we can all agree inspirational and wonderful however I do think that rose tinted spectacles make these characters seem larger than life. In TLJ, I feared that Luke would end up with a Force Unleashed moment where he smashed up entire armies. In my opinion that would have removed me completely from the film, although I see a lot of fans wished that he had lit that sabre and done just that!

    Now, to a degree I can agree with complaints about characterisations of the ST ensemble. Some of them are still half baked characters and require development. I do think TLJ succeeded in giving purpose to a number of members though, especially Poe and Finn. As for my opinion, I think that the ST characters serve their purpose and for those fans with children, it is a sheer joy to see them re-enacting fights from the recent movies like I'm sure we all once did when we were younger.
     
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  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I mean, I obviously love Luke and Carrie will be missed and her lack of presence felt, and sure I'd have liked to know more about Snoke...

    But if by now you don't care about literally any of the characters at this point, you must be in a rough position.
     
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  11. Big Daddy Dave

    Big Daddy Dave Rebelscum

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    I wasn't happy with a LOT of TLJ (I loved half of it and hated the other half), but the characters of the new trilogy I still enjoy.

    Rey is now a complete Mary Sue, but I enjoy her and want to see something better done with her in the final act.

    I want to see Poe step up and become the leader of the resistance as Leia was obviously grooming him for command.

    Finn's arc seems complete and he is in danger of having nothing to do like Han did in the end of the OT. I hope they give him something good for IX.

    Rose, Chewbacca, BB-8, 3-PO and R2 will all be there to fill out the heroes' lineup. They can have DJ return and force the resistance to need his help again, but I don't care if he "joins" or "doesn't join".

    For bad guys, man...all they have is Hux and Kylo Ren. That doesn't give a lot of room for Kylo to do anything with his arc but send him further off the deep end into moustache twirling. I feel like IX is going to need a new henchman for one movie like they did with Grievous, to help beef the bad guys back up beyond just nameless white male Nazis.
     
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  12. Luke-saber

    Luke-saber Rebelscum

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    I'm very interested in the outcome of Rey, Poe (who I hope has a hidden force presence ala Corran Horn), and Kylo. Other than that, no.
     
  13. A Concerned Fan

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    You're right about everything except Star Wars being about the Vietnam war. GL had no interest in anti-Vietnam themes at all with regard to SW. Also, he had always planned on doing the PT at some point before any ST, but said he wanted to wait for movie technology to advance. He ultimately ditched the ST idea when he made RotJ. He condensed his ideas for the ST into RotJ, there was never any plan to do any ST or sequels to RotJ once Jedi was finished. He never even so much as entertained the idea until around 2011/12. I don't care what the internet or anyone else says. Like it or not, that's the true history folks.
     
  14. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    With all due respect, that is incorrect. First of all, before Star Wars, Lucas was originally set to direct Apocalypse Now from a screenplay by John Milius. Second, the whole movie screams of the anti-governmentalist themes of the Nixon/post- Watergate era. Lucas himself compared Nixon multiple times to the Emperor...

    I'm not sure how anyone with a lick of historical knowledge and common sense could deny the influence of the Vietnam War on Star Wars...
    Before RotJ there were plans for doing the ST before the PT with Luke as the protagonist and the Emperor as the main villain.
    Although due to the lack of reliable sources and the contradictory statements Lucas has made, it's impossible to tell what he exactly planned.
    He most likely had lots of ideas and plans and decided spontaneously as he was going along (like anyone would).
    That is correct. By the time RotJ was released Lucas probably got tired of Star Wars and wanted to move on. He firmly stated countless of times that SW ended with RotJ. Until the Disney acquisition reignited his imagination.
     
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  15. A Concerned Fan

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    I'm not going to argue, I know my stuff with 100% certainty. I lived through it. I remember it first hand. All these quotes and bunk on the internet and what-not these days saying Lucas had grand plans for a ST and everything is pure hogwash. The vietnam war had no influence what-so-ever on GL's ideas for Star Wars. The USSR and the Nazis were his main inspiration for the Empire for the most part, along with some old serial and samurai history. Yes, a lot of his OT stuff was done on the fly, but there was some organization to it as well. The bottom line with regard to the ST is that GL had no plans for it beyond RotJ. They were just vague ideas before 1982 that ultimately got axed with RotJ. The PT he did have workable plans for, and was the only project with any real chance of coming to fruition.
     
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  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    In other words: when it was someone else's money and stress
     
  17. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    It's partially his money as well due to Disney stocks, but yeah that probably also played some part.
     
  18. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Yeah, half his payment was Disney stock.
    So that always makes me giggle when people imply he'd want Disney to fail or anything
     
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  19. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    https://nypost.com/2014/09/21/how-star-wars-was-secretly-george-lucas-protest-of-vietnam/
    ----------

    http://www.history.com/news/the-real-history-that-inspired-star-wars

    "According to J.W. Rinzler’s “The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi,” when asked if Emperor Palpatine was a Jedi during a 1981 story conference, Lucas responded, “No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy.” In a 2005 interview published in the Chicago Tribune, Lucas said he originally conceived “Star Wars” as a reaction to Nixon’s presidency. “It was really about the Vietnam War, and that was the period where Nixon was trying to run for a [second] term, which got me to thinking historically about how do democracies get turned into dictatorships? Because the democracies aren’t overthrown; they’re given away.”"


    "The guerilla war waged by the Rebel Alliance against the Galactic Empire mirrored the battle between an insurgent force and a global superpower that was playing out in Vietnam as Lucas wrote “Star Wars”. The filmmaker, who was originally set to direct to the Vietnam War film “Apocalypse Now” in the early 1970s before moving on to “Star Wars,” said in an audio commentary on the 2004 re-release of “Return of the Jedi” that the Viet Cong served as his inspiration for the furry forest-dwelling Ewoks, who were able to defeat a vastly superior opponent in spite of their primitive weapons. As William J. Astore writes in “Star Wars and History,” both the Viet Cong and Ewoks were well-served by their “superior knowledge of the local terrain and an ability to blend into that terrain.”"

    However, interestingly enough:

    "The Empire wasn’t the only side in “Star Wars” that cribbed Nazi imagery, however. The final scene of the original 1977 “Star Wars” in which Princess Leia awards medals to Rebel heroes Luke Skywalker and Han Solo while soldiers stood at attention echoed the massive Nazi rallies in Nuremberg captured in Leni Riefenstahl’s 1935 propaganda film “Triumph of the Will.”

    -------------

    http://www.newsweek.com/does-star-wars-endorse-political-republican-democrat-498365

    "The Emperor’s true inspiration. When asked during pre-production whether the Emperor had once been a Jedi, Lucas responded, “No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an Imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy.”"

    -----------------
     
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  20. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    Then you're wrong. But this is the era of the internet. Information has never been easier to access. So you don't have to resort to uncertainty. This is not a subjective topic.

    "It was really about the Vietnam War, and that was the period where Nixon was trying to run for a [second] term, which got me to thinking historically about how do democracies get turned into dictatorships?" Lucas said at his Skywalker Ranch earlier this month. "Because the democracies aren't overthrown; they're given away." - Geroge Lucas, 2005 to the Chicago Tribune.
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-05-18/features/0505180309_1_star-wars-sith-palpatine

    "Kasdan: Was he a Jedi?
    Lucas: No, he was a politician. Richard M. Nixon was his name. He subverted the senate and finally took over and became an imperial guy and he was really evil. But he pretended to be a really nice guy. He sucked Luke’s father into the dark side." - George Lucas to Lawrence Kasdan, 1981.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793.html
     
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