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Does anyone else feel that the new films ruined the ending of ROTJ?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by VOODOO, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Jaimz the Jedi

    Jaimz the Jedi Rebel Commander

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    Does it though? He still brought balance to the force & general peace throughout the galaxy for the best part of 30 years.

    It’s like saying everyone that sacrificed themselves during WW1 did it for nothing because WW2 still happened.
     
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  2. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Rebel Official

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    it doesnt nullify his sacrifice really, it just lessens its meaning.
     
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  3. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I guess in the sense that WWI was referred to contemporarily as the ‘war to end all wars’. But with specific regard to Anakin and his role in George’s completed hexalogy, it was presented as the fulfillment of a prophetic deliverance to an age of peace.

    It would be like if the events of the book of revelations came to pass, Armageddon happens, good finally triumphs over evil, then 30 years later, we do it all over again. Well, that fatalistic divination becomes a little less substantial now, doesn’t it? That declarative conclusion, long foretold in oracular fashion, was merely the prelude to the ‘real’ resolution? I don’t see how that doesn’t work to diminish the previous relevance.

    The gesture still matters. It still counts. But it’s far less significant than it was before.
     
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  4. Jaimz the Jedi

    Jaimz the Jedi Rebel Commander

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    I’d assume George added the line “a prophecy that misread could have been” just incase he ever wanted to do episodes 7, 8 & 9 without people getting bent out of shape about Anakin being the “chosen one”. If that was the intention, it didn’t work :p
     
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  5. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I just assumed the line was meant in the tradition of Greek tragedy - basically what the prequels end up being. The characters read into the prophecy what they want it to mean. Their desire to either fulfill it or avoid it, becomes the catalyst to their demise. The Jedi believed the ‘chosen one’ prediction to be an inherently positive thing for them. They were wrong. They’d “misread” it.

    There's wiggle room there though. Like Yoda saying "there is another". We know who he's talking about, but you can pretend it's someone else if that helps the pieces fit better for you :)
     
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  6. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel General

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    @Jayson With all due respect, I'm trying to debate Return. I don't want and don't intend to complain about it.
     
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  7. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I just meant that the arguments being put down were taking me way back to being a kid, because a lot of these were leveled at the time.
    It's a very old conversation.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  8. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Yes. I do feel bringing back old Sheev does cheapen 1 through 6.
     
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  9. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    The First Order itself was a slap to the face of the ROTJ's ending, it was lazy to just rebrand the Empire.

    It also felt like TROS was the only one that directly acknowledged the events of ROTJ. Everything from Han being a smuggler again to Rey not knowing about Han's time as a general.. it's like JJ and Kathleen just wanted to make a sequel to A New Hope and Empire. Lucas' trilogy would have been a proper follow-on.
     
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  10. The Birdwatcher

    The Birdwatcher Rebel General

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    The same thing could be said about the Empire's role in The Empire Strikes Back by ignoring the promise in the first Star Wars (A New Hope)'s opening crawl- destroying the Death Star was supposed "to restore freedom to the Galaxy" (also its destruction would allow the systems freedom, as its purpose was to keep the systems in line, according to Tarkin). Technically, as I have found on an old forum on the internet (Byrne Robotics: Did the Prequels Ruin Darth Vader?), TESB revealed "an even more powerful Galactic Empire, effectively hitting "rewind" and starting over with the Rebels on the run again". (quote from Mark Haslett- 24 June 2008 at 11:54 am)
    http://m.byrnerobotics.com/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=26301

    So, it is THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK essentially, but with a stronger emphasis.
     
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  11. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    Absolutely yes. The Skywalker Saga was always about the rise, downfall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.
    GL has been quoted many times saying this.

    The sequel trilogy just ruins Anakin's sacrifice and contradicts the "Chosen One" prophecy.

    The ST is a good trilogy based on its own and should NOT have been a continuation of the Skywalker story.
    No doubt there could have been better story ideas based 30 years later which would have included both the original and new cast
    without touching on Dark/fallen Jedi or Sith/Palpatine to preserve the OT.

    Cheers, KH
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 19, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 19, 2020 ---
    Unfortunately Disney decided to make it the same the moment the slapped EPISODE VII on the movie.
    BTW the ST happened 40 years after the OT
     
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  12. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Well...someone should have told Lucas that, because the ST was his idea first.
    His idea of the 7th film was what ended up as the bones of TLJ.

    He had ideas about Luke and all coming back, and this young woman trying to coax a reluctant Luke back into things.

    The final outcome is of course different, but the point is that if we're saying it shouldn't have been part of the Skywalker saga, well...whether Lucas would have done it or Disney, the ST was always going to be a continuation of the Skywalker saga.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  13. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    GL should have done the ST rather then the PT....Disney/Lucasfilm (sans George) trying to connect the dots to the PT is what shot the ST in the foot.
     
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  14. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    It didn't mess it up for me I still enjoy ROTJ, but yeah Palpatine's ultimate return was forced in my humble opinion. If it was alluded to throughout the 3 films, hearing his voice call to Kylo in TFA and TLJ would have been epic. To see him suddenly appear in TROS seems rushed and that's basically my major gripe with the film everything seems... sort of like the ending to Game of Thrones. The last couple of episodes of GoT feels rushed like they were trying to abruptly end the series the same for TROS.
     
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  15. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    To you perhaps.

    Did you ever read what Lucas was thinking of doing before he decided he was tired of being yelled at?
    If you didn't like the PT, you probably won't like Lucas' ideas for the ST before he quit.

    Also...I'm not going to accept that Lucas doing it would just make it better, because he quit literally because he was tired of being yelled at by fans.
    So the idea of him just making it all peachy for everyone just because it's him is horribly ignoring a long history of bulls*** the man has had to endure from "fans" of Star Wars.

    I quite like the ST, so I'm not upset about anything.
    They are great films and didn't horribly mess anything up at all for me regarding the Saga, but instead very well complemented it.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #235 Jayson, Sep 20, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  16. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    Dude do you ever love to stretch an argument....

    One of the major beefs, if not THE BEEF, about the ST is how it watershed the 'prophecy' and Anakin's sacrifice.
    Had Lucas done 7,8 and 9 rather than 1,2,3 back in 1998 then it wouldnt have been an issue....

    And btw, Lucas "being yelled at" regarding TPM was mainly over the JAR JAR character.
     
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  17. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Lucas made the remark about being yelled at as his reason for quitting in 2012.

    I don't know if I understand you correctly.
    Are you saying the PT should not have been made, and instead Lucas should have made the ST at that time?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  18. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    I love that line. Lucas created a Trilogy for the ages in an time when SW was king.
    That magic could and never will be duplicated no matter how hard anyone tried, including GL. The BS by fans just mean they care.
     
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  19. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Do you like the PT?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
  20. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    We're going back and forth that am losing track of the argument... :confused:

    Am saying if the prequels were never made then more fans would have appreciated the Second Trilogy more because it didnt have to fill in the plot holes created by the PT. Remember for 15 years after ROTJ fans just thought Anakin Skywalker was simply a powerful Jedi who was corrupted by the Emperor.
    The trailer for TPM comes out along with the "you refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force...you believe its this boy" which stuns all the fans and elevates Anakin status.

    Even before the release of ROTS, GL always said SW was "the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker" and its finishes at EP6 because he doesnt have anything beyond that (despite being on record many times contradicting himself over and over 12, to 9 to 3 to 6.)
    When asked if he'd ever let someone continue the story he said , "nah its my thing".

    The ST had the challenge of dealing w/ Anakin's storyline which failed to do so. That is what am most bummed about.

    Cheers, KH
     
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