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Does anyone else feel that the new films ruined the ending of ROTJ?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by VOODOO, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    !!!SIDE TANGENT WARNING!!!
    You know...this is something that comes up a lot, and I have to say...I'm not so sure I agree anymore.

    In reading through Lucas' ambitions and what he was setting out to do, and how massive the changes were, and why some of them were happening (e.g. Fox completely gutting the budget on the first film causing everything to do with Alderaan to get gutted...and that wasn't even the half of the problems they caused), and that Lucas rewrote that film so heavily that by the time it came out it wasn't even the film that Fox greenlit...to say nothing of the production schedule he was on - that man was in the air more than some birds.

    Just...man. The insanity of that thing is just bonkers.

    But even all that aside, he was going for a very specific thing, and he really spent a ton of time stewing over every line of dialogue, every little bit of action - the man actually hand wrote every space fight movement out and filled a good 50 pages of script, hand-choreographing everything.
    Not right off, but eventually he filled in the <insert battle here> with that.

    And the nature of the dialogue was purposeful. He didn't want the way people normally talk about anything. He was threading a very weird needle. On one hand, he wanted it to feel real, but on the other fantastic.
    He was constantly reminding everyone to make everything as nondescript as possible everywhere he went - any designer, almost without fail, would hear that on almost every visit.
    He didn't want ultra stylized looks. He wanted everything to look like it was just this flat existence that you couldn't really pin down into one style of anything easily - like reality.
    While at the same time he was punching it full of fairy tale nonsense.

    And that was the point - he wanted the story to be a fantasy that felt tangible. It even flowed over into the most pedantic of choices - he shot it like a documentary with multiple cameras running and distanced from the actors, and the actors acting to each other rather than the camera, while at the same time filling the sets with very theatrical and strong lighting. Again, clashing the fantastic with the real.

    So the dialogue does the same thing. It mashes these two things together, and it comes out odd. It's almost "real" sounding, but it's also just weirdly fantastic and removed from regular logic and sense.

    The narrative moves that way as well. It's this plot driven, drag your characters through an adventure, style of narrative, but it constantly pit stops to check in on the characters almost like a character driven narrative. Fake smashes into Real.

    So you get these really oddball mixtures, but that oddball mixture was the point of design he was actually going for. Early interviews before the film was even released have Lucas on record talking about this, and these were interviews taking place while he was in the throws of revisions and talking about the challenges of balancing all of these goals and ambitions in the story.

    It's as if someone said, "Hey, I want to make a movie full of tropes that doesn't feel like a trope, but feels like it's happening next door...but in another galaxy...you know?"

    No, George. I don't know. That's some weird s*** man.

    Pick a lane and go for it!
    No? Alright, do your weird real fake space epic hero next door movie.

    Further, recently I've undertaken writing a screenplay from scratch - entirely from scratch - there's nothing to lean on for reality here, and I constantly turn to Lucas for my anchor when I'm feeling overwhelmed.

    He's very right.
    When you step into a fantasy that is entirely removed from reality, the biggest problem you have is that everything is a possibility - it's the kid in the candy story problem, as he puts it.

    And that is its own kind of nightmare that is a massive challenge to deal with. You have to develop everything in that screenplay.
    The basic notions of look, sound, mannerisms, cultural normality's, and technologies...to say nothing about motivations...what are the things that motivate the characters? In a world of anything what limits the characters from doing anything?

    These are hard challenges to juggle, let alone to weave an entire story through that has a basic beginning-middle-end, as well as chimes the echoes of fair tale ethos and parable idioms, while simultaneously echoing collective memory of the cinematic medium of sci-fi and adventure itself.

    The amount of work that went into writing this screenplay is bonkers. Let alone that the man made his own writing desk out of three recovered doors to save money.

    But specifically, yeah, I can no longer agree that it has bad writing.
    It has very specifically bad-like writing. The two are very different.

    It's the difference between The Disaster Artist and The Room, or Airplane! and Zero Hour.

    And yeah, in a way, Star Wars is a sort of parody film. It's just not making fun of it quite so overtly as parody and shuffles just to the left into pastiche.

    So I can't go along with the "bad writing" thing that it gets a wrap for anymore.
    It's so dialed in to what it's doing.

    Over the years, it's wavered a bit in places, but it still holds to that wonky ideal - like, the PT dialogue wouldn't seem so odd IF you saw the film all chewed up in black and white filled with grain, and the audio had a terrible white noise hiss going on the whole time through it with very little music playing.

    But it's not. It's being mashed into modernity while simultaneously once again borrowing from a documentary approach of filming, but this time more like an old studio production the likes of Humphry Bogart, but like you were attempting to shove Lawrence of Arabia through a Humphry Bogart film coupled with a Harold Lloyd film, wrapped in a video game (i.e. CGI bonanza).

    That's one hell of a pill to swallow. I mean, I have a hard time watching the PT - especially AOTC, but I get what he was doing and it's anything but bad writing.
    The difference between bad writing and audience disconnect is that bad writing is writing that attempts to communicate by its own rules and fails to do so by its own rules.
    Star Wars doesn't do that. Not even the PT. It never fails to communicate by its own rules.
    It never has a moment like The Room has.

    What it has is a massive case of audience disconnect because the tangibility of that mixture is capable of being massively confusing to a receiving audience.
    For those that dig it, they are going to DIG IT, because it is guaranteed to be absolutely unlike anything else out there.

    This isn't bad writing on CW or the Hallmark Channel hour. You won't find this writing anywhere else.
    It is very specifically Lucas' Star Wars, and very specifically intended to be exactly what it is.

    Yes, Lucas talks up the "I've always had wooden dialogue", but even if we buy that for a moment (and I don't because of his other works, and all of the Star Wars screenplay versions which don't all have "wooden dialogue"), then at least the man knew how to lean into it for the purpose of the art correctly (and again, I don't buy that cop-out for a moment - yeah, he's no William Goldman, but he's not Ed Wood either).

    Anyway...
    End Tangent.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #341 Jayson, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  2. MandoChip

    MandoChip Hate me later. Work now.
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    Well, we can fully agree on that.
     
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  3. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I wholeheartedly agree but even still...here, let me try with a different example:

    The Fire Emblem fandom reminds me A LOT of the Star Wars fandom. Both are franchises over 30 years old (FE just turned 30 while Star Wars is what? 43 now?) that have a massive amount of entries in their history, each with their own defining features. SW has the "Lucas Era" and the "Disney Era," which are defined even farther by the PT, OT, ST, Mando, Cartoons, and Legends, New EU, and so on.

    Likewise, Fire Emblem has the "Kaga Era," and the "Post-Kaga Era," which has its own eras defined by either world or system (GBA Era vs the Tellius Duology vs the 3DS Era). Everyone has their favorite and everyone is also wrong about why it's their favorite (unless it's Genealogy of the Holy War or Radiant Dawn...and then you're wrong about why it's your favorite). Trust me when I say that liking the Sequels is far more accepted in the Star Wars fandom than liking some of the FE games that have come out.

    But then Three Houses came out, and for a brief period of time, it seemingly united the fandom. Kaga Era fans were happy, 3DS fans were happy, and newcomers were happy. That was a year ago, and since then the shine has faded on the game. But overall the fandom is looking better than it was before.* There's hope.

    Conversely, that's what I think a different form of the ST could have been (in many ways, that's what TFA was to me) - that symbol of hope, of unity that can be. We may never reach that goal, but with each increase in quality, there comes a tolerance for what came before. Or at least that's how I see it. In a way, The Mandalorian is serving the same role as Three Houses. It's not perfect, but it's uniting sides of the fandom together.

    I'm not sure if my example is making sense...I guess what I'm trying to say that while a united fandom was never possible (unless something was so bad it united everyone to hate it), I think that there were routes that could have been taken in order to make the fandom less toxic than it is now. George's version most likely wouldn't have been that route, but I'm sure it exists!
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    There is never a bad day for an Ed Wood name drop.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 25, 2020 ---
    I don't think it exists. I don't think it can exist.
    Star Wars has forever been polarizing and it always will be.
    If it weren't, I'm not sure it'd be Star Wars.

    There are people who think ANH is the only real Star Wars.

    If there isn't a consensus on what Star Wars IS then I don't think there can be a less polarizing route.
     
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  5. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I don't think it's about being not being polarizing so much as it is about making a place less toxic and being hopeful. I firmly believe that it could have existed. But right now, the Mandalorian fits that profile imo, and I'm fine with that.
     
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  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    The Mandalorian stands more or less completely separate from anything else so it's fine. We'll see what happens if they have a controversial take on a legacy character.

    What makes you think it could have existed? The rational well thought out debates after the PT movies? The outrage after ESB and ROTJ?
    Fandom by default will always turn toxic eventually. When you have that many people incredibly invested in something they don't actually control, they won't all be able to agree for very long.
     
  7. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Seeing it happen in similar fandoms. Star Wars isn't the only long-runner franchise I follow - again, Fire Emblem (and a few others).

    Again, but when you have things of quality, people will respect other opinions. For a similar (by sheer amount and influence, not age) look at the MCU movies. People disagree on which is the "best" MCU movie all the time. But it's respectful. You won't see much screaming about how "INFINITY WAR RUINED THE FRANCHISE" or some such thing. At least not commonly. People will say "yeah that movie's cool, but I like XYZ better." And you discuss and move on.
    Because in the eyes of the fans, there's a level of care, concern, and quality involved.
    The same is true for most Mario games.
    The same is true for many Wheel of Time books, even in The Slog.
    The same is true for Star Trek, as far as I'm aware.

    I don't think that Star Wars is above such things.

    The point isn't that there would be some Holy Grail that would unite the fandoms. You're right. That's impossible. But I DO believe that there was a path that could have been taken where, if things were explained and played out properly, would have led to at least respectful disagreeing (like what's happening here!) and not flame wars or whatever took place. Would there be people who claimed that their childhood was ruined and Star Wars is ruined? Absolutely. Would there be debates about how XYZ Star Wars movie is the worst on YouTube? You know it. But I also think that there'd be far more saying "XYZ is great and here's how to appreciate it" as well. But I doubt they'd be the toxicity there is now.

    I dislike the idea of "there is no better path" because that means we stop looking for a better solution. As if we're stuck in this rut and there wasn't any way around it. We all make choices that lead us down certain paths. Some are our own, some aren't. I refuse to believe that the path Star Wars is on is the best - or even the only - path. We as a fandom can do better, and it as a franchise can do better. So long as we see those other paths, we can ask ourselves how to get to a place like them.
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    No offense but I have no clue what Fire Emblem is. I had to google it. It's likely tiny and a whole lot less diverse than the Star Wars fandom. You're comparing apples and oranges.

    Again, on what planet do people on the interest respect each others opinion? The MCU is only 10 years old. Not 40. Wait until they turn 20 and Chris Evans comes back and plays a disillusioned Cap. And I like the MCU but it's vanilla soft serve. It's storytelling is bland and pretty much void of anything important (with a few notable exceptions) in terms of deeper meaning. The opposite of Star Wars really. (FWIW there was a strong group of people very upset they killed off Tony).

    Star Wars has never been above those things though. It isn't about quality. It's about the nature of a broad diverse group of people being able to amplify their Peedunky nature through anonymity on the internet. Instead of just saying this movie is trash, people post it in forums or shout it at actors over social media. FFS, Ahmed Best was nearly driven to suicide. And you expect me to believe there is something out there that would unify the Star Wars fans?

    It has nothing to do with quality. The ST, for all intent and purposes, is high quality. The production, the cast, the directors, the writers (sorry Terrio, not you)...everything about it is quality whether people like the story or not. As I said before people haven't always like ESB and ROTJ. It can't be about quality. It has to do with a million different expectations and ideas of what Star Wars is. The Mandalorian is free of that because it isn't connected to Luke, Han and Leia. Rogue One toed the line and caught some shrapnel. That's why people are so much more forgiving to those properties that TFA, TLJ or TROS. You see a lot of the problems the ST movies get accused of in those (Mando/RO) and people aren't nearly as peeved.

    As long as there are grifters in this world, your Grace Randolphs, Geeks and Gamers, Angry Bearded Guy Yelling at a Camera in Front of a Wall of Toys #40895, those videos will always exist and be popular. It's the grift. It's easier to exploit more now than ever.
     
  9. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Fire Emblem is a game franchise that's thirty years old with 16 entries main entries. Star Wars only has 11 by comparison. Fire Emblem has survived multiple interpretations, iterations, and remakes. It's survived genre wars, bad translations, and creator controversies and major content creator controversies. The fact you had to google it means nothing; I know people who'd have to google Star Wars. My point is that like Star Wars, it has a massively fractured fanbase. While it's not big, it's easily the most comparable to Star Wars outside of Star Trek.

    Do you know how many people joined the "hate train" for Fire Emblem Fates? Do you know the pushback that people get if you don't like Radiant Dawn? Do you know how toxic things have been? No, but I do. So trust me when I say the comparison is there.

    Anyways, you keep missing my point. I'm not talking about a unifying factor. We're both agreeing on the fact that Star Wars will never be unified. And frankly, that's fine. Heck in many ways, that's preferable. I'm talking about a pacifying factor. Something that cools the tensions. Again, unification was never the goal.

    For the PT it was time. For the ST it may be time, but it also may just be moving past it. My point is that a different iteration of the story may have not have erupted the fanbase as it did. Maybe if we didn't get TLJ as we did, we wouldn't be so split.* Maybe if Episode IX was Trovorrow's version, we'd feel differently. I'm not saying that those versions would be the "pacifying" versions or not - and frankly it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because we have what we have and we need to move forward.

    And yes, the MCU is a young franchise, relatively speaking. But superhero movies aren't, and in the broader superhero movie genre, you don't see the vitriol that Star Wars gets (outside of maybe the Synder stuff) as far as I'm aware. And yet, if it's easier to hate and exploit that, why isn't that being done with the superhero movies? Surely it'd be more profitable to do so, if I'm reading your message correctly. But it's not, so something must be different. Could it be the amount of controversy? No, Marvel's had its fair share of that too.
    Could it be the fanbase? Maybe, but I'm pretty sure there's an overlap (I'll touch on Ahmed Best in a bit).
    Could it be that Star Wars is trying something new while Marvel is repeating what works? Maybe, but then why is the MCU the innovative one? Why are they the ones who can pull off three hour movies and break records when Star Wars - one of the only franchises with the pedigree to do so - is afraid to? Why are they the ones who are at least trying to incorporate POC into their movies in meaningful ways (FINALLY!) where Star Wars feels like it's taking a step back for every two forward?


    There has to have been a path to cool down the fanbase, or else I doubt people would be as up in arms as they have been. If this had been the only way, there would be resignation and acceptance after the ST. But there wasn't, because fans, even in their different expectations and ideas of what Star Wars is, saw a different path that could have been taken. Yes, we may disagree on what that path is, but there is one out there, and one of those wouldn't have caused the vitriol we have today.

    In terms of Ahmed Best, I agree, Star Wars fans as whole suck. Which is why I hate when people say we're better than XYZ fanbase, because we're not. Members of our community - and yes, they ARE our community (simply the worst aspects of it . The Dark Side is still a part of the Force, no matter how much it wounds the whole or how unnatural it is) - nearly bullied a man to suicide, bullied John Boyega and Kelly Marie Tran off of social media, and have scared directors and actors away from the franchise as a whole. I won't deny that at all. I won't deny that social media by its nature and original intent brings out some of the worst in us. I won't excuse that at all. But I refuse to believe that social media can carry all the blame for the dislike the new movies have gotten. Or that fans are the only ones to blame for the reaction to the Prequels.
    Expectations and audience interpretations do play a major part in how things are accepted, yes, but some of it lies with the creators too. They play their part in how the story goes, and we have every right to be upset if we don't like the direction (what we don't have the right to do is harass people about it).

    Social media has now given the historically voiceless a new voice. Unfortunately those voiceless aren't always the ones we want to hear. But we have to be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater or else we ignore that which we do need to hear at times. (P.S, grifters have existed LONG before social media. Don't blame that on them.)


    *I may like and respect the movie, but even I have to acknowledge what it did.
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    You will never pacify or unify or do anything like that with people who feel ownership over a property. Star Wars is/was a religion to some. People literally lashed out the same way people did over the Piss Christ art exhibit.

    People constantly bicker over superhero movies. And you can't say "except the Snyder stuff" because that's it. That's usually the igniting factor. Like Marvel movies? Oh pathetic kiddy movies! I need my dark and gritty stuff!
    And why can Marvel do that? because the vast majority of MCU fans aren't Marvel Comics readers. This is their Marvel. The comics are irrelevant. They made it clear early on that the comics would be separate don't expect direct translations. These will be new interpretations. Star Wars is doing a continuation of an on going story. If TLJ was a separate movie told about Jedi from long before the PT, people would hail it as a genius entry into the Star Wars lore. But it used Luke as a vessel to tear down the myth of the Jedi (as Lucas himself did in the PT but I guess the lesson people really got was 'lightsabers go brrrrr') and that was sacrilege to some. It's a valid issue to have, I suppose, if you let these characters reach that point to you.

    Time will obviously heal all wounds in a fandom but Star Wars fans can never be happy long as long as new stuff is coming out. And of course grifters have always existed and I didn't try blaming anything on them other than Social Media has now made it even easier to grift a much bigger base. Before YouTube and Twitter grifts weren't done like this. You needed to call a 1-800 number for this level of grift before hand.

    Sorry my thoughts are so scatterbrained. Lot going on today
     
    #350 RoyleRancor, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  11. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Enjoy Thanksgiving. I'll come back to your post tomorrow.
     
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  12. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    EDIT: @RoyleRancor let's actually move it to Saturday. If tomorrow is the Mando episode we all hope and suspect it'll be, I'd rather not kill that vibe.
     
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  13. StardustSoldier

    StardustSoldier Force Sensitive

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    This is a tricky question to answer. I think it's subjective to an extent and depends largely on how much one enjoys the ST or not. I'm in the former camp, so it's easier for me to accept Eps 7-9 as they are and how they add on to the original trilogy, but I do understand the criticisms.

    Another part of the issue, however, is that it does continue the conflict of the Rebels/Resitance vs. the Empire/First Order, something which story wise could have ended for good with RotJ, and then Eps 7-9 could have gone on to feature entirely new antagonists. I'm torn here. Because on one hand, I feel like much of the point of the ST was "the long-awaited Star Wars revival" and bringing back the feel of the OT, which I liked. But at some level, it does rob RotJ of some of its feeling of finality.

    But on the other other hand, The Mandalorian has shown so far that the galaxy still did genuinely change after the Empire's downfall, and I hope this is something that gets further explored as we see more works set in that era. And Episode 9 does end with Palpatine and the Sith/First Order finally getting eradicated for good. So in a way, we still got that same ending; it just took a little longer for the heroes to get there.
     
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  14. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Whereas I never felt ROTJ felt final at all.

    When I was a kid I felt like it was like watching three films of Zorro becoming Zorro and never really getting Zorro, and as I matured that changed to the narrative being unfinished because we never saw Luke's sunset, nor the echo of the themes reprised in full circle.

    This only grew more pronounced for me after the prequels as now I had the themes pulling to the right in the OT, then the left in the PT, but nothing pulling them together and sounding off both trilogies' themes at the same time in full narrative closure.

    I'm quite glad I finally got that.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  15. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    People who bully other people to near suicide or bully a young woman because of her ethnicity are NOT part of a “fandom” that I am part of. They are disgusting lowlifes.
     
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  16. Force-Abel

    Force-Abel Clone Trooper

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    The new Sequel Trilogy films did not ruin the end Return Of The Jedi for me. I can and have separated each Trilogy for what it is, like we can for the games, comics, spin-offs, EU and so on over time, all with out it impacting on the enjoyment of what has come before.

    I did not enjoy the execution of Palpatine's return for the TROS, it could have been done so much better if planned properly with hints or possibilities in the previous two ST films, but it does not diminish the end of ROTJ, or the efforts of the Rebels in the Original Trilogy.

    It was a little confusing and unsatisfying having Palpatine's return in the opening crawl.

    Though I understand that others may feel differently.
     
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  17. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I agree, they are lowlifes, and I don't like, condone, or respect the people that do that. But if they watch the movies, (seemingly) love the franchise, and continue buying the merchandise what else are we supposed to call them? We can call them fans, but then I'd say that all fans are part of the fandom, even if they aren't as socially engaged.
    Claiming that they don't speak for us as a whole is one thing, but claiming that they aren't a part of this fandom is a completely separate thing. It absolves us of guilt and responsibility that we DO have as fans. It's up to us to keep our expectations in check and check those of others. It's up to US to create a place that's welcoming to new fans and diversity (which also means we need to practice hearing and being heard by others). We at the Cantina do a great job of that, but ignoring the ugliness as a whole won't solve the problem.
    A fandom is like a body - there are multiple parts achieving multiple goals. Sometimes the parts work in harmony, but not always. Toxic fans are like a cancer - they're harmful aberrant cells in the body that hurt and destroy everything. But they DID original from the body and we can't claim that they didn't. Should these cancerous fans (and frankly all forms of cancer - it's taken enough people I've known) be excised from the fandom? ABSOLUTELY. But it's not a foreign entity that entered its way into the body. It originated here because of the people and their own corruption.
    Again, I DO NOT CONDONE TOXIC FANS OR THE BULLY, ABUSIVE, AND HATRED THEY POSSESS. THEY ARE NOT HEALTHY INDIVIDUALLY OR IN CONCEPT, AND I DO NOT WANT THEM IN THIS FANDOM. HOWEVER, I SIMPLY DON'T BELIEVE THAT A BLANKET-WIDE CLAIM OF "THEY AREN'T US" IS NEITHER ENTIRELY TRUE NOR HELPFUL. IN ORDER FOR US AS INDIVIDUALS AND AS A WHOLE TO IMPROVE, WE MUST ACKNOWLEDGE OUR WEAKNESSES AND WORST TENDENCIES; ONLY THEN CAN WE ADDRESS THEM.



    And just so you don't think this is exclusive to Star Wars, I feel this way about ALL fandoms and many aspects of life.

    @RoyleRancor I'm back and ready to continue (a day late, yes. But I had family in town that just left 30 minutes ago, and they come first). Anyways, I think you're right about the Synder movies. But let me ask you a simple question - do you think that there was ANYTHING Snyder could have done to make his movies less controversial? Less vitriolic? (You know...like the Zod incident or Batman's manslaughter philosophy in BvS?) Because if so, then I ask that you apply that same logic to Star Wars, because it's the same. There were decisions Abrams and Johnson could have made that would have resulted in a less heated fanbase than there is now. Again, THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING I BELIEVE EXISTS SOMEWHERE IN THIS VAST, NIGH INFINITE WORLD. It may not be Trevorrow's version, or Lucas' version, or my version, or your version. It may not have been any version we would ever see, but it does exist.
    Would it be less toxic? That's a different question, as Star Wars unfortunately has a history of toxicity that we've yet to excise (or even fully uncover, frankly). And as long as fandoms exist, there will always be toxic element. But that doesn't mean we must accept the hatred, not at all! Our jobs as fans is to either limit that toxicity wherever we can (what we should do as a whole), create safe-spots away from the toxicity (what I believe this Cantina is compared to the fandom as a whole), or leave the fandom (ideally the choice those who feel like the franchise/story is going down a path they can't follow should make, instead of producing more hatred into this world)
     
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  18. Darth KreVass

    Darth KreVass Rebel Trooper

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    I think even GL mentioned publicly that the ST didn’t do anything to push SW forward.
     
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  19. Jedi Master Wysk

    Jedi Master Wysk Rebelscum

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    The reason I don't think that the ST ruins the ending of ROTJ is because I don't actually think that any of the trilogies (even though they are all telling one story) feel that connected to each other. From my point of view all 3 trilogies tell their own story and when combined, form a bigger story, but the 3 trilogies still feel separate from each other.
     
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  20. Viper78

    Viper78 Rebel Official

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    Overall I would say yes and no.

    Yes because although it started off great with TFA , the trilogy was just a mess after that, had Lucasfilm and DIsney bothered their backsides to have a story and a plan for the Trilogy from the start then perhaps I would think otherwise.

    No because you can just ignore the Sequel Trilogy and consider ROTJ the end or just read the endless books set after it.
     
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