Does anyone else feel that the new films ruined the ending of ROTJ?

Yeah... that's what people want from an epic space-fantasy adventure.... divorce, disillusionment and existentialism....

Hopefully the next Indiana Jones movie is 2 hours of Indy complaining about how he has given up archaeology.....

 

Meh, divorce not so much, but existentialism and disillusionment in an epic space-fantasy adventure? That's basically Lovecraft. Count me in.

 

Ah yes... that all time cinematic classic, Lovecraft. Considered by many to be one of the finest films of all time.

Wait, whuh...??

 

It's an author. He's pretty famous. Iconic, really...

 

I believe you that he is, but just because he is an iconic author doesn't mean I want Star Wars to imitate him.

If I may use an example I am more familiar with..... I love love LOVE The Godfather, Part 1 and Part 2. But that doesn't mean I want Star Wars to imitate those movies in terms of style, approach, themes, content, etc. So I'll believe you that this Lovecraft is very talented and very iconic, yet it does not follow that I want Star Wars to mirror his works.

 

Eh, ten minutes ago you didn't even know who he was.

Star Wars has all sorts of literary and film influences. Aside from the obvious Kurosawa and Flash Gordon influences, writers like George Orwell also likely contributed to Lucas's vision. And honestly, given what we see in the OT, I'd bet that Lucas was probably inspired by Lovecraft in part, too. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and it's totally fine to be inspired by other artists.

 

You're right. Even now, 10 minutes later, I neither know (nor care) who he is. That's why I am taking you at your word regarding everything you've said about him, and your first comment on him was "but existentialism and disillusionment in an epic space-fantasy adventure? That's basically Lovecraft. Count me in."

My point is that just because certain themes work for certain artists does not necessarily mean they would work in a different film/book/story/etc.

I am obviously not getting my point across terribly well because I have no problem with artists drawing inspiration from other artists. Lucas has drawn so much "inspiration" that he has been accused of outright plagiarism. However that doesn't mean that an artist should gain "inspiration" from an entirely different genre.

 

I guess we fundamentally just disagree on that.

I think Star Wars could thrive on tackling different themes and genres, particularly in the spinoff films. We're even starting to see that already, with a dark war movie in Rogue One, and what looks to be a swashbuckling western in Han Solo. A desolate Lovecraftian horror would be a lot of fun, I think.

But that's neither here nor their, I guess. My initial point was simply that some of the darker points of the sequel trilogy hardly feel "Disney" at all.

By the way, I guess you don't seem at all interested, but Lovecraft is pretty cool. I'd highly suggest him.

 

I'm way behind on my reading, but it will be considered.

 

We already have that since 1979 and it's the Alien franchise. The nu Battlestar Galactica also comes to mind and last but not least there's Rogue One.

But then, there shouldn't be comedy elements or goofy villains like General Hux and company...

 

Eh, I don't think we need to create arbitrary boundaries on what "should" or "shouldn't" be in the films. If it's good, it's good.

 

So HP Lovecraft with a good dose of comedy would work?

Sorry, some things don't really mix well together but YMMV.

 

Don't knock it before you try it

 

On one hand, I love a good, happy, wrapped-up finale. Return of the Jedi certainly was that, and it was intended to be that. If you're looking at Star Wars in the sense that it's escapism, then it's better to end it with ROTJ. Star Wars is escapsism for a lot of people, including me, so I can agree that the "re-opening of the door" is kind of a shame.

On the other hand, in the real world, there's no such thing as a truly happy ending as long as the heart's beating. As Albert Einstein put it, "So long as there are men, there will be wars." Like @Ruralfarmboy said above, after World War I, there was World War II, which was even worse. Do I agree with every choice the sequel trilogy is making about the original trilogy characters? No, not at all. In fact, I would change a lot of them, if I could. But stories go on because life goes on, and, happy or not, Return of the Jedi had to continue somewhere.

 

I have to say that I think the ST does ruin the ending of ROTJ, and that is why I believe Disney should have made a Standalone Trilogy of Rey, Finn, Poe, BB8 and Kylo Ren, and still succeeded without the OT characters. I understand why Disney brought back Ford, Fisher and Hamill: Box Office $$$$, but I think they boxed themselves in storywise.

The fanbase is divided about Luke after TLJ, about Han after TFA, and will probably be about how they handle Leia's death after Episode 9, is that what they really wanted in this new Trilogy? The OT character have essentially overshadowed the new characters and it creates threads like these because once you mess with an iconic character, there is no turning back, good or bad.

 

In a way, I suppose. The backdrop of the OT was the conflict between the Rebellion and the Empire. The fight wasn’t just for freedom only, it was to establish a New Republic. That was the endgame - a new government built on liberty for all. TFA, without us ever getting to see it, dispatched that achievement because it was inconvenient to the ‘let’s do what works’ strategy JJ approached the ST with.

I don’t think that necessarily invalidates the triumph of ROTJ, but it is disappointing from a personal level. Not exactly the same thing IMO.

 

Can a franchise called "Star Wars" really have a "lived happily ever after" ending? SW is a growing and evolving (fictional) universe, so RotJ wasn't an ending of anything, it was just a depiction of events that happened at a certain time to certain characters. And if you really think about, SW universe is full of things like wars, oppression, crime and genocide and the ultimate fate of the majority of the "good guys" (like Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu, Han, Luke, Holdo and most likely Leia) has been... pretty sad. Maybe Rey, Finn and Poe are gonna fair better.

 

They're just trying to kill the whole past. Everything.

 

Some people are concerned about the PROPHECY of Ep1-6 not being fulfilled because Snoke has risen and Kylo. But it's been confirmed by lucasfilm that it doesn't violate the prophecy as explained in TLJ:Visual Dictionary that Snoke is not a sith. Sith are ended but darkness is not ended. Now there's the argument that the balance has been disrupted since Anakin vanquished the Sith , and now the darkness is rising again in the sequels. I interpret the ancient prophecy meaning the dark side being beaten even though that is confusing. Yoda did mention the meaning of the prophecy could have been misinterpreted anyways. Still the prophecy was fulfilled by Anakin by destroying the sith which is the central part of it.

But I understand what you mean as it's hard to see the empire taken down only to see a failed jedi order and a failed new republic (partly because of corrupted government once again). But the empire's defeat did bring 3 decades of peace to the galaxy nd that makes the Saga (1-6) worth it in my opinion.

For those who think the sequels invalidate the 1-6 Lucas saga, I say just ignore them canonically. Maybe go watch them and enjoy them but don't treat them as your own canon