Does anyone else feel that the new films ruined the ending of ROTJ?

The ending to ROTJ (fireworks, Ewok celebration, that statue falling at Coruscant) was a great way to cap off the saga...
I will not judge the Sequel Trilogy until it’s over, but Episode IX better have a darned good ending to make me believe the Empire is over “this time.” The reason I put quotes in “this time” is because the ST has made ROTJ seem like a faulty ending, “Sorry guys, it ain’t over yet, the Emire is still alive and well despite the satisfactory finalized imagery.” How can JJ Abrams convince viewers that the Empire is gone for good, and that audiences won’t be led astray again? I do not know the answer to my that question. I hope they don’t leave it open-ended.

 

No.

 

Well, I have been mulling this over since Disney took over, at first I was fully against them and had little hope for the new films. Where the new trilogy has let me down, the stand alones, (from my point of view) have added brilliant context for new fans, and hopefully persuaded them to go and respect the old trilogy. To answer your question I believe there are merits to eitherside. on one hand, it does slightly cheapen the ending, but on the other, it shows a classic starwars repeat in history. Over all especially as a fan of legends, I would agree with you. However, I hold hope that they might be able to undo any damage they have done in the eyes of fans such as ourselves.

 

I agree with your feelings on this, before I watched The Force Awakens in theaters I was actually hoping that it would tie into the exact ending of ROTJ, or in specific, be like the books (If you get what I mean). I still love the new movies, but I do agree that it made the ending of ROTJ a bit of I would like to call an "ehhhh".

 

Huh.
I never took that message from ROTJ.
I always assumed all growing up that the Empire was like...I dunno; Cobra to GI Joe.

They could be beaten, but that didn't mean they were gone forever. That's just the bad guy token of this sat-mat.

*shrug*
Cheers,
Jayson

 

I think there are 2 ways to look at the ROTJ ending, the SE and OOT version:

The SE version: I agree with everything you said because the celebration spreads across the galaxy (even the toppling of the Emperor's statue which is symbolic of freedom). That is a true capper to the 1-6 story.

The OOT version: I think this can work with the 7,8,9 story because the celebration is really just centered around Endor and it is more symbolic of 'we won the battle, but not the war' mantra. It is no different then the ending of ANH with the medal ceremony, and how the threat continued in ESB.

In an odd way, I don't really think the 1-9 story works on a narrative level, but 1-6 works and 4-9 works.

 

They should have just made the movies after the old hero characters passed away rather than form movies around their failure or demise.

We did not need Luke, Leia nor Han. They turned it into destroy old to hype up the new and failed miserably.

 

They didn't fail for me.


Cheers,
Jayson

 

Same.
Success isn't always permanent.
Failure isn't always either.

It seems as though our OT heroes will still leave the Galaxy in good hands despite them not being around for it.

 

I agree that the TFA ruined the ending of ROTJ. This is why I am actually ok with Luke being a depressed hermit in The Last Jedi. He had a happy ending and everything went to sh** all over again. Right back to square one. I'd be pretty bummed out too.

 

I actually agree with this. TFA took away my excitement for the ST and the events that happen in TLJ doesn't bother me. All I wanted was to see Luke's established Jedi academy in action and see it how it is different than the PT era Jedi. Episode 7 didn't give me this.

 

I was thinking of the essence of Star Wars or shall I say the heart of Star Wars.

For me, its Ob1 and Luke in that hut on Tatooine. Ob1 giving Luke that lightsaber explaining to him what the Force is. ( the Prequels were based on that entire scene. Anakin and his friendship to OB1 and Darth Vader the one that killed him).

Luke Skywalker in TFA should have been OB1 incarnate. When the Hosnian Prime was destroyed. there should've been a shot cutting to Luke grabbing hold of himself same as OB1 did on the Falcon, when Alderaan was destroyed.

In TLJ Luke should have taken the Lightsaber from Rey rather then toss it over his shoulder.

Luke should have never abandoned the Force and its teachings.

Rey should have reignited the spark inside of Luke to continue the fight.

Why was Luke on Ahch-to? Well, because he thought his sister could handle it while he searched for the true meaning of the Force...

Although I like TFA & TLJ, JJ and RJ missed the mark a bit. I just hope JJ can repair and save the sequel trilogy with the next installment.

And yes, the new films kind of skewed the ending of ROTJ.

 

No offense, but that would not be interesting to me at all.
None of it follows the chiasmus and follows the epic poem standard of the saga that I love.

It would break the form for Luke to be like Ben so closely.
It's more Star Wars poetic for Ben to have been so connected as a mentor and Luke entirely cut off as a mentor.
For Ben to give the sacred relic in reverence as the mentor and for Luke to take it and toss it away in dismissal as a mentor.
For Ben to idolize the Jedi as a mentor and Luke disillusion it as a mentor.

That's what Star Wars does.
ROTJ is ANH just in opposites.
ANH is full if wide shots that give grand scale of massive spaces, ROTJ has stuff crammed in every shot so there's big areas at times, but filled to where it's very tight and restricted.

Luke (and Ben) has to be rescued by Han off Tatooine in ANH, while Han has to be rescued by Luke in ROTJ.

Leia is bodily free, fully respected, but caged in ANH, while in ROTJ she is degraded nearly naked, bodily chained, but cageless.

In ANH Luke pretends to be a trooper to rescue Leia, while in ROTJ Leia pretends to be a bounty hunter to rescue Han (both using a Wookie ploy).

In ANH, the villains are polished, refined, and assured.
In ROTJ the villains are tattered, disgusting, and uncertain.

It keeps going, and ESB's second half is a flip of the first half in like fashion.

So if TFA was Luke being a Ben+Yoda 2.0 type of deal...I would have probably never watched the film a second time.


Cheers,
Jayson

 

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, even though I actually feel the ST does 'sort of' ruin the ending to ROTJ. Does ESB/ROTJ ruin the ending of ANH? For anyone who saw ANH (or just Star Wars) in 1977, it was a complete story that had an beginning, middle and ending. The ending medal ceremony is a triumph over blowing up the Death Star and defeating the Empire, but ESB/ROTJ do change that ending in some respect (especially since there is another Death Star). I wouldn't say it ruins the ending because I still enjoy it, but it doesn't have the impact that it did in 1977 knowing there is a story that comes after that, and then a story that comes before it, so Episode 4 ended up being the middle of the story, compared to the standalone ending in 1977.

 

Outstanding point!

 

I think for your analogy to work, the ending of Episode 9 has to really hit home with the fans. When I mean ending, just those last few minutes of the final montage like previous movies. I still believe that Force Ghost Luke has to somehow be in that ending (maybe a nod to Rey similar to ROTJ ending), because Luke IS Star Wars, and deserves to be there at the end so we can all have closure on the Skywalker Saga.

If JJ leaves us with an open ended ending for a possible Episode 10,11,12, then I don't think this Trilogy will have the emotional impact that the OT did, and it will feel like a never ending cycle.

 

JJ cannot have multiple stories like TLJ, as the main story should be Rey vs Kylo Ren, then the side story can be Resistance vs First Order through Finn, Poe, Rose, Hux, etc. If JJ tries to throw everything in Episode 9 with multiple character plots, then it is either going come off as rushed (somewhat like ROTS did), or the Rey vs Kylo Ren story will be underdeveloped because he didn't have enough time to focus on it.

For anyone who is a fan of The Walking Dead, this was the biggest problem of the last 2-3 seasons (and sadly why I finally checked out this year during Season 8) because they had too many characters, too many storylines, and the show became a complete unfocused mess.