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Does Rogue One Improve the PREquels?

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by RoyleRancor, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I think there's a very vocal minority of them that do hold it against the ST now. But again, a small portion.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 12, 2017 ---
    It's the pod racing isn't it?
     
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  2. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    Most defiantly.
     
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  3. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    No, narrative coherence and a good foundation what could have been awesome episodes 2 and 3. However, Lucas failed. He ditched much of the ground work he did in episode 1 because of the critics and fan reception. He decided to reinvent the wheel for episode 2 and it became an utter disaster which could not in any way be remedied by the third movie...........in my opinion :p
     
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  4. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    For me it was always pod racing that saved TPM.
    I really disliked that even as a kid once the shine of new Star Wars wore off.
    I still can't get around midichlorians. That was this heart punching, finding out Santa isn't real kinda thing
     
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  5. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    The pod racing sequence is really good. Only the announcers are annoying and Jabba's little slap stick. But the editing and tension of that sequence was really well executed.
     
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  6. p4kistan

    p4kistan Rebelscum

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    It doesnt override the OT interpretation of the force. jeez when will ppl understand that
     
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  7. Bargwill Tomder

    Bargwill Tomder Rebel General

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    The problem is, for me at least, that the announcers are ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. Also, digital Jabba will never look good, and most of the alien competitors in the race (with the exception of Sebulba) seem like childish cartoon characters, complete with silly no-big-deal reactions to incredible violence.
     
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  8. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    I thikn if anything it give's some wish-full "what if" thoughts.
     
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  9. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    The Pod Race could have been soooo much better if Lucas didn't add so many cringe-worthy moments. Ben Quadrinaros, Jabba, the Announcers, Pit droids, Kitster and the droids. It all made the race seem less dangerous and serious. Would have loved a Gareth Edwards "grittier" version.
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Midichlorians are just a dumb idea.
    Oh yeah, the force is really just a bunch of little things in your blood stream.

    Why are they dumb?
    1. They are a completely unnecessary addition to try and explain something that doesn't need explained and is better off left a mystery. The true ways and means of the Force were always best off as a mystery. It keeps you guessing as to how and why and makes you think ANYONE could be a Jedi. Now we know, nope, blood test proves it not ability and belief.

    2. They don't actually explain anything, they just create a new and far less interesting question. Do they tell you how the Force works? No. They just tell you that in living beings they have midichlorians that communicate with the force. So....how or why do they do that? They don't say. Does anyone care really? No. No they don't.

    3. They are logically flawed. If Yoda is one of the strongest and most powerful Jedi, and power in the force in related to the midichlorian count, could Yoda actually be so small? Or is it a scaled ratio deal....I mean wouldn't beings like Wookies inherently make the best Jedi as they are MASSIVE beasts...what about Hutts? Bigger beings, more cells, more midichlorians....

    4. The essentially create a caste system of haves and have nots for the Force. When factoring midichlorians in now, the Force is only for the haves. The poor have nots are left on their own. Does Chirrut have a high midichlorian count? Does Leia? It's a bit odd to look at how people outside the Sith/Jedi view the force now knowing it's basically a members only club.
     
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  11. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I also like it how Lucas projects 'boredom' on scenes which should be everything but. For example, Jabba sleeping during the Podrace. Obi Wan constantly saying "this is why I hate flying". Just compare that to how people react to tense sequences in the new movies. General Merrick (blue leader) smiling when he destroys an AT-AT on Scarif iN Rogue One. Or Poe Dameron constantly reacting to his own awesome airial combay manoeuvres in The Force Awakens.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 13, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 13, 2017 ---
    Midichlorians represent Lucas' love in the 90s for New Age religious systems and modernity. He placed a scientific explanation of the force into a saga which had thusfar mainly evolved around premodern mythology and mystique. Bad move, Lucas.
     
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  12. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    For some reason Lucas wanted to create some kind of "Force Score Card" so he could show just how powerful Anakin was/could be. It was a dumb plot device to be able to validate the whole "chosen one" garbage.

    The biggest mistakes of the Prequels were:

    Midichlorians - Since when can you measure Faith with a blood test?
    Virgin Birth - Not necessary to copy Christ.
    Chosen One - Just not needed. Why couldn't Anakin just be super powerful and fall to the Dark Side?
    Starting with 9 year old Anakin - The way they handled young Jyn with flashback type sequences would have been a better choice if you just had to show a young Anakin.
    Jar Jar Binks - Just a bad character all around.

    Rogue One has it's minor issues, but does so much right. I wish it could help what I mentioned above, but the one way is to just forget about Prequel Lore.
     
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  13. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Actually, I've always thought that the midichlorians serve as some kind of metaphor for the need of the Nabooans and the Gugans to form a symbiosis in order to deal with the threat of the Trade Federation.

    Again, the extreme antipathy toward Jar Jar by many fans. Someone could write an essay on this.
     
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  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    That feels like a stretch.

    And there's nothing extreme about saying Jar Jar is a bad character. He was.
    Sure some take it over the top, but that's not happening here.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 13, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 13, 2017 ---
    That's a major problem in the PT. No one is ever amazed or wowed by what they are seeing. So it never conveys the feeling of being wowed to the audience.
    In Jurassic Park, when Grant, Malcolm, Sattler and Gennaro see the dinosaurs for the first time, all three just have these types of "wow" reactions.
    There should have been "wow" moments for the characters.
     
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  15. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Lucas' counter argument would be that the characters inhabit a world which is daily life for them, they are not as easily impressed by their surroundings and the situations they are confronted with. He thinks this makes the world he creates more realistic. However, this is a classic mistake of Lucas. He forgets that in order to make his characters believable and likeable they will have to reflect to some extent the intended reaction of the audience. If Obi Wan in an intense scene continuously exclaims that he hates flying, the audience will hardly be impressed. Why should they, even the character they should identify with hates it. In Rogue One, general Merrick smiles and laughs when he destroys an AT-ACT. He loves, despite having probably experienced similar situations over and over again in the galaxy which he inhabits. Nevertheless in doing so he conveys the impression that flying a starfighter in Star Wars, an X-Wing, is extremely fun, and indeed the dream of general Merrick and every other Star Wars fan in real life. For a Star Wars fan, fying an X-Wing would probably be one of the best things ever and it is reflected in the movie. There are some moments when we see something similar in the prequels. One instance is Anakin escaping the exploding Federation ship ("now this is podracing") in Episode 1. It is an increadible cheesy line, but still it conveys a sense of amazement and tension. Anakin has never seen this before and flying the Naboo fighter through an exploding ship is something every Star Wars fan would dream off.

    Just one example of Lucas' problematic understanding of who the fans of his saga are and what they love about Star Wars in the first place.
     
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  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    You could even take it to the Gungan city. Neither Obi-Wan nor Qui-Gon had been or knew much of Gungan culture and style but they just seem wholly unimpressed by these marvelous things.
    Then when the Sando aqua monster eats the opee, you expect a "HOLY blast" type moment but Qui-Gon calmly says, there's always a bigger fish.
     
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  17. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Jar Jar is annoying, but he is so on purpose. It is to strenthen - how strange it might sound - the gravitas of the Obi Wan and Qui Gon and thus by extension the Jedi Order which Anakin is soon to join. What bothers me is the nature of the slapstick humor itself. In the case of Jar Jar it is too much and too often. Furthermore, when he is serious ("Gungan's no dying without a fight" and Qui Gon and Padmé's funeral) that the character previous levity becomes more effective. However, the required seriousness and levity where not balanced out properly enough to save the character. There was for instance a chance to show that despite his levity Jar Jar could actually do something properly when he believes in it and when other people's lives are at stake. That he rises above himself. This sequence and opportunity would have been the final "battle of the plains" scene. However these scene was completely destructive for Jar Jar's character simply because the slapstick and levity was everywhere whereas a battle for survival is always a serious thing. The levity did not correspond well with the situation in which it was used.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 13, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 13, 2017 ---
    Exactly, those were perfect opportunities to show amazement with our Jedi leads. Instead their entry is rather dull. They are unimpressed by the CGI wizzardy, probably made worse by the fact that they are standing in a studio surrounded by green screens and one of the interns holding a tennis ball on a stick in front them representing the glorious and amazing race of gungans. Actors act bored, we the audience get bored. Simple logic.
     
    #77 Ammianus Marcellinus, Jan 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2017
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  18. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    And the icing on the cake is that basically none of the SW community accepted the midichlorian idea. Not the EU, not the games, not even the fanfics, noone.
    Its probably the most rejected segment of the saga. Or even worse than rejected. Jar-jar is rejected. The community just pretends like the midichlorian idea never existed...
    I think he might've even been influenced by Dragon Ball and its OVER 9000! -idea...
    But it all comes down to bad writing. The prophecy, the midichlorians... this is all about getting Qui-gon to trust the boy for some reason to persuade Obi-wan to teach him even against the will of the Jedi Council (which by the end of the movie also lets the dangerous boy train for some inexplicable reason).
    Its all plot convenience to make Anakin important for some reason... There are just so many other way this could've been written better imo.

    I' ve read that Lucas was influenced by the EU to depict the jedi as lifeless monks... Again bad idea.
    To me the jedi were always something like Chirrut Imwe's character. Not boring celebrities living in the middle of the Republic, doing nothing but sitting in cirlces all day crying about how clouded they are...
    I've always imagined them as mystical, weird and unusual. Ofc not all of them have to be like that, but some of them certainly. And its not just about riddling with hazy words like Yoda...

    Sorry, but thats just utterly forced... What about Darth Plagueis who influenced the midichlorians to create life?
     
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  19. Funinightmare

    Funinightmare Rebelscum

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    I don't know about you but I hate those kind of sayings, "This makes up for the prequels" "This is better than the prequels". I see a lot people making posts and articles about this sort of thing and it's ridiculous. I understand that the prequels were bad films with some good moments, but we have to learn to accept what happened and not dwell on the past so much.

    But still I gotta answer the question, my answer is no, it's not an improvement to the prequels, it's a new way to tell a Star Wars story. It's something I really admire. It's easy to be a fan of Star Wars and try to re create that same magic in a new film, but to give a new sperspective and explore other possible outcomes and ideas from that universe is far more interesting. Rogue One was the first Star Wars film to focus more on the meaning behind the harsh and fatal reality of war. There's been other different looks into Star Wars that been done before, like Knights of the Old Republic 2 and even some episodes of the Clone Wars. The Star Wars prequels were just like that, a new look into the galaxy, to see what Darth Vader was before the dark side, to see life before the Empire, to see what the Jedi were like in numbers and prime before most died. They are what they are and Rogue One is what it is, so there is no improvement because the films in comparision have nothing in common other than the title and certain planets and characters.
     
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  20. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Entertainment Weekly included this article as part of their Ultimate Guide to Rogue One:

    http://ew.com/article/2016/12/12/star-wars-rogue-one-prequels/

    As I mentioned before, either we love them or hate them, the prequels are part of the canon. Whatever our gripes are about those movies, they exist. And the beauty of Rogue One, in my opinion is that it ties seamlessly elements from the prequels, from the comics, from the books and animated series as well as the OT. In some way, for those who are not the biggest fans of the PT, it can help to make amends with whatever happened before the Empire on a galaxy far, far away.
     
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