Does Rogue One match up to The Force Awakens?

Hey, I wanted to post it first!

A nice, insightful critique of good but flawed films.

 

Yep it does, just as great.

 

Interesting video and I did appreciate his presentation, but really I prefer RO over TFA. I less hate TFA than I consider it an incomplete movie that is contingent on TLJ. RO, while definitely flawed, I honestly just found more entertaining. I liked the characters a lot more, particularly, Cassian and Churrit, and I enjoyed Krennic as an antagonist.

TFA in terms of acting is a lot better and I would argue in terms of pacing, actually outdoes RO. However, in terms of the climaxes, RO has it beat. And usually, I'm the kind of guy who is more forgiving. But I do appreciate an honest look from the perspective of a filmmaker and screenwriter.

But as someone who isn't one of those and is a fan of the lore and the world, Rogue One will always take it from me. But whatever. People can debate the validity of the two movies as much as they want. I'm just happy we are getting more SWs movies. Though, a Netflix series would be nice. Particularly, one on Bobba Fett or even the 501st. More so on the latter.

 

Great post, lessons from the screenplay is always an entertaining and informative watch.

As fascinating as it is to view films through the lens of screenplay writing I'm going to put on my contrarian hat for a moment and question some of his critiques with an eye to the bigger narrative picture.

I get the feeling some of the creative decisions that may seem questionable to conventional screenwriting wisdom likely exist to explore some other important storytelling function (because editing...compromise...yada-yada).

Despite the author's concern that the Bor Gullet scene "has no meaningful consequences for the plot" because "afterward Saul still doesn't believe the pilot" being completely misfounded (I think Saul believes the pilot's intentions are genuine but is still left wondering if he is part of a greater trap), it may have been left in to show (not tell) Saul's extremist tendencies and illustrate the borderline paranoia that often dovetails with wartime security culture.

Similarily, portraying Jynn's "passive protagonism" through "lack of meaningful choices" is actually an interesting creative choice for this story. Successful or not, it shows us that even strong characters can still be helplessly swept along by events in a bigger universe and this situation may even help garner audience sympathy with her plight. This approach also provides room for her to overcome a "weakness that is preventing her from becoming her best self" (her lack of control over her circumstances) and complete an arc by emphasising her eventual agency over the very forces that sought to control her.

My two cents anyways. Good stuff though, thoughtful and constructive criticism too often seems to be the exception these days!

 

I love this video. Great insight and wow.....it makes me think about what I should concentrate more on for my story/stories when it comes to creating characters and how they fit in the plot of the storyline.

 

I would like your post if it weren't for the whole ''When really smart people think'' comment. This leaves little place for debate and it seems like you are saying that everyone who doesn't agree with you is dumb. It's the same as if I commented on your post and wrote that only dorks disagree.

 

It still is simply his personal opinion as nobody can tell you what exact criteria you SHOULD use to judge a film if it is good or bad. Just because the poster of the video doesn't say the words ''rehash'' or ''Mary Sue'' it doesn't mean that those things are not true as this is a thing of personal opinions. Take for example the Minions movie:

Said movie has made lots more money than Lord of the Rings, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Hobbit and almost every single Harry Potter movie. Does that mean that Minions HAS to be better than those movies? Of course not as this is just the opinion a lots of fans that liked the movie yet it's not the opinion of every single person out there.

 

I disagree and I find your way of seeing things insulting. Who says who has the right to say something is superior to something else? Just because you like it that doesn't mean that you are right and everyone is wrong. Rey is my favorite character from TFA and I like that movie alot but does that mean she isn't a Mary Sue? Yes she totally is a Mary Sue as she was portrayed as an extremely overpowered character. Is TFA a rehash? Yes it totally is a rehash of ANH and just because I like the movie it doesn't make me blind to this. Now does that make me dumb in your eyes because according to you, someone ''that really knows something'' is superior to me and it makes my words less valid?

 

FWIW the thread title might mislead people into thinking the vid is an analysis of which movie was "better" opposed to just being one video essay in a series that examines different screenwriting techniques through the literature and film-maker's writing choices.

 

If I were to respond to the fan who contested Rey not being a Mary Sue answering your 8 statements it would go like this:

1-Luke was around machines and worked on them on Tatooine.

2-Luke was a great pilot and it was said so in the movie while we are left to assume that somebody thought Rey. Who teached her how to fly? Unkar Plutt? We are supposed to find it credible that a girl who wasn't meant to leave the planet would be given flying lessons by the very guy who was supposed to keep her there and he left her free to just grab any ship she could find and just take off?

3-Both Anakin and Luke had the combination of technical and piloting skills and they still needed to be trained by others in the use of the Force so it can't be a classic genaeological trope.

4-Still doesn't explain how a girl who had just learned that the Force existed only moments ago could take down a Dark Jedi trained by both Luke Skywalker and Snoke.

5-You can't be more of a crybaby than Luke and he was constantly emotionally challenged on a number of occasions and yet he still wasn't shown as an overpowered Mary Sue. Same goes for Anakin.

6-The only real mistake she did was release the Rathars. Everything else shows her to be perfect in every way.

7-Rey was doing just fine even before Han had even gotten there. She had already evaded capture and all she needed to do was get a ship. With her incredible piloting skills Rey didn't need to be rescued.

8-Plutt seems to dislike everyone, Finn ran because a girl with a staff was running madly towards him with an angry expression and Kylo didn't see her as an enemy, he saw her as a potential ally and even offered to train her.

 

In my mind R1 cannot be compared to TFA or any other of the numbered episodes. They are both enjoyable movies to me, for different reasons, however personally I liked R1 better than TFA.

I grew up in the military, 26 years US Air Force. My perceptions of things are shaped to a large extent through my experience as an Air Force officer. Teamwork, mission-oriented attitude, putting service above self.....things we learned very early on in our careers from senior non-commissioned officers and others, those with more experience, those that made mistakes in their careers and wanted to pass this knowledge on.

This experience shaped my very strong positive reaction to R1 because of the themes woven into the movie that resonated with me....themes I experienced in my career. It is the most different SW movie of any other to date...... it truly is an epic war movie made in the SW Universe. And it was nothing like I expected!

 

No. I do not believe that "ROGUE ONE" matched up to "THE FORCE AWAKENS". The 2016 movie surpassed it in terms of quality.

 

I'm not a huge fan of either one and I saw the video a while ago at 3am browsing YouTube
-___- but I think you can't compare either one because of the evolution of the way the movies are being produced and also because R1 is so tightly constrained in regards to the way it can only play out...for me it's better off not made for what it is as it wasn't really truly necessary but yeah you shouldn't need to compare the two, they're different fruits.

 

Rogue One is my favorite SW movie to date. So my answer would be a resounding no, It does not match up. It's much better than TFA.