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Does Rogue One match up to The Force Awakens?

Discussion in 'Rogue One' started by Ammianus Marcellinus, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel General

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    I agree with @NotQyteNeo . I liked R1 WAY better than TFA.

    In my opinion, R1 is much better in terms of what I call "fittedness" - TFA made me want to yell things like "That would never happen" or "That makes no sense," whereas R1 made me want to say "That is better than anything I could've imagined happening!"

    I don't mean any offense to the fans of TFA, but I still think R1 plays like it was made by someone who loves Star Wars, while TFA plays like it was made by someone who read a pamphlet about Star Wars.
     
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  2. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    One of the amazing aspects of RO was how organically and naturally the team came together. It just felt "right" how that happened. The other amazing aspect was the unpredictability factor. It's VERY rare for me to watch a movie or TV show without anticipating one or more things that will happen. In RO, I never knew what was going to happen next. It kept me on the edge of my seat - LOVED IT!
     
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  3. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    As someone who loved Star Wars and studies it in an academic context for a living, I'd say The Force Awakens was the movie made by someone who understands Star Wars. Rogue One was just made by someone who just loves it. I love both movies, but I seriously don't think Rogue One is technically speaking a better movie. Its pacing is sloppy, its depth shallow, its dialogues uninmaginative and constricted and its characters, apart from the combination Jynn/Cassian/K2, redundant and underdeveloped. :). There's a reason why people like TFA more than Rogue One. Do you know why? It engages people with narrative depth and intentional silence. Rogue One is cacophony and narrative soup. It tastes bad and I can't hear what it's singing!
     
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  4. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Sensitive

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    TFA is a 'Star Wars' film - an action adventure space opera with cross genre detailing and mythological story structure.

    RO is a war film in the GFFA. I think we all have awkward takes on it, mostly because it's the first 'standalone' and it does depict some cool things that happened in the GFFA.

    I just think it takes the 'war' genre characteristics ('gritty' action scenes, militaristic score, themes of inevitable death and sacrifice) and runs them right up against the Star Wars serial adventure characteristics that defines Star Wars as Star Wars. 'Cacophony' is a decent word for it.

    There are so many things that makes Star Wars that weren't in RO. It could have used an opening crawl. It didn't have the same symphonic bombastic musical score and removed the mythological elements (while still trying to have them at the same time). So it can be awkward couple hours.

    Luckily, I enjoyed it as a SW fan. The third act is worth the price of admission for Star Wars fans, and it fit nicely with the opening of ANH.

    For general audiences, I really don't know. I guess it was a spectacle, but I'm not sure how many of the general audience could love it without the Star Wars-centric context that we all bring to it.

    It will be interesting to see how far the standalone films stray from the Star Wars serialized space opera action adventure formula though.

    I still loved it.(chopper)
     
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  5. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Oh I absolutely love it too. But mostly because I love Star Wars and not, I reckon, because I think its technically speaking a good movie. I can see the same somewhere else and probably much better. There are other warmovies out there that are definitely more engaging and technically satisfying.

    But what I'd like to ask then is "did the authors and director achieved what they set out to do and how does this correspond to audience reception?". I like to analyse what a movie tries to do and whether its succesful in that effort. What I've noticed is that RO has most and foremost an identity problem. It does not know what it wants to be. It is sold as a Warmovie but still contains the classical tropes of a Star Wars movie: some of which are antithetical to the wargenre. Yet it wants to be both, but it cant. The Force Awakens was intended as a classical Star Wars movie with familiar tropes and some reworked and inverted ones. It was executed perfectly in this respect, besides its superior writing and implementation of pacing, characters, context and sound.

    There's another more general difference. The neutral audience, having no particular Star Wars background, loves The Force Awakens, but ultimately likes Rogue One less. TFA does not presume too much knowledge of the franchise from its audience. Rogue One, on the other hand, a lot. TFA also engages its audience by means of intentional narrative lacunae and silences. It knows that the audience will try to fill these in itself and engenders engagement. RO spills everything out for its audience, even though half of that audience does not understand what or why certain information is provided or why it is relevant. This can even be seen in the manner in which Edwards constructs jokes. An hilarious example is K2SO's "Not me! I can survive in space". You see, it is already a funny joke at the "Not me!", but Edwards does not trust his audience to understand and adds exposition "I can survive in space" even though anyone knows a robot does not need oxygen. Therefore the joke because less funny.
     
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  6. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    It was a epic movie proving that the spin-offs can reach the levels the OT did.
     
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  7. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    Better than ROTJ, that's for sure.
     
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  8. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    That's got me thinking they should have probably made a spin-off for that second death star plans robbery although we'd have to sit for the last 50 mins of the movie watching bothans blasted from one end of the screen till the other.
     
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  9. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    I enjoyed both films very much, but I like Rogue One much more. You tube videos don't change what I think about films, thats your opinion. if someone agrees with these you tubers thats fine too.
     
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  10. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I'd definitely like to see that. There's a reason why Lucasfilm hasn't decided on Bothans yet.

    Many bothans die
    ..........and then an imperial officer defects and gives them the location of DS2, turns out to be a double agent
    The emperor can now set his most cunning plan.
    Luke wanks/
     
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  11. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Quite a story.
     
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  12. andrea.conti.91

    andrea.conti.91 Rebelscum

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    TFA is better written than Rogue One, that's the point. This doesn't mean that TFA is a perfect movie, or that R1 is unenjoyable, but that the R1 writers made some choices that nearly killed that movie, while Abrams/Kasdan worked better in taking some plot points from ANH and improve the characters' development and the psychology of both good and bad guys. TFA is a solid, visually stunning adventure movie; R1 is more unstable and flat, but with gorgeous visuals and a very good direction. I didn't like it very much, I thought the "real" movie didn't start until the third act, but I don't blame who liked it.
     
  13. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Personally, Rogue One did more for me. I felt like I was watching a new and fresh movie in Rogue One with appropriate callbacks to, and characters and elements from, A New Hope. With The Force Awakens, I enjoyed it, but felt like I had just witnessed A New Hope 2.0.
     
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  14. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    To me it's the second stand-alone film behind Clone Wars(a very underrated movie IMO). But either way, I think it will be a tough act to follow. But who knows? ... the Han Solo movie may be even better. But there is risk involved with that movie in that they brought in someone else to play Han. They had to, of course. But nonetheless, it's not Harrison Ford. That movie could end up being very polarizing with half loving it and half hating it.
     
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  15. Pobody's Nerfect

    Pobody's Nerfect Jedi Commander

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    I liked Rogue One more, mostly because The Force Awakens was such a rehash of what we've already seen. Rogue One was refreshing and original.
     
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  16. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Always the way.
     
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