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During Ahsoka and Vader's duel, was Vader feeling conflicted?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Rebels' started by Lord Skywalker, Sep 26, 2017.

?

What was Vader doing in that moment?

  1. Feeling conflicted, Anakin was started to seep through

    11 vote(s)
    91.7%
  2. Toying with Ahsoka to lower her guard

    1 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. Lord Skywalker

    Lord Skywalker Rebel Official

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    When Vader's voice modulator started malfunctioning and Anakin's voice came through calling out Ahsoka's name and Ahsoka told him "I won't leave you, not this time" Anakin's partial facial expression appeared as if he was feeling sadness and remorse, then quickly shut that off telling her she would die.

    Was he genuinely letting his good half Anakin seep through or was he toying with Ahsoka?
     
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  2. Finn_McCool

    Finn_McCool Jedi Commander

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    Meybe his partially exposed face was symbolic of the good that was still inside of Vader. He still had good in him. Im sure he was conflicted. But the Darkside overtook him. After he killed his wife, I don't think he would allow himself to ever go back to the good. Until Luke of course. But if anyone would come close it would have been Ahsoka.
     
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  3. Jedi Master Airina Zara

    Jedi Master Airina Zara Force Sensitive

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    I think Anakin did come back for a second but then Vader took control again since Anakin can only come back with the love from his son Luke. He saw Ahsoka but then thought about everything he used to have a wife, his master, the Jedi order, and a padwan. And he knew he could never have it again which drives him insane so when he stares at Ahsoka he needs to destroy her because she was apart of everything he had ever loved and he could never regain.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2017 ---
    Ahsoka will return and she will be more wise and powerful then before I think but she will still have much sorrow for knowing what her master has become and that she couldn’t save him
     
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  4. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel Official

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    Padame brought Anakin back, not Luke.
     
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  5. Jedi Master Airina Zara

    Jedi Master Airina Zara Force Sensitive

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    What? Padame died lol Luke brought him back
     
    #5 Jedi Master Airina Zara, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
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  6. Finn_McCool

    Finn_McCool Jedi Commander

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    Meybe his memory of Padme, or Vader could see Padme in Luke. Perhaps? He never knew Luke. He didn't even know he had a son, until they tried to kill eachother. So Luke could have reminded Vader of Padme, and his good side shone through.
     
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  7. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    This question was answered last year by Dave Filoni:

    "As far as how Vader would treat Ahsoka and react to her, I base that interaction – the attitude, if not the dialogue – on my conversation with George about how that would go. I asked him pretty pointedly, “How would this conversation go? How would he feel about her?” We both agreed that the one thing that Ahsoka can’t represent in any way is any path of redemption for Vader, or the hope that that’s there because Luke is the only one that’s going to be able to make that happen. And that’s the story that we see. It was our belief that we could have this moment, but it’s not even a moment of hesitation for Vader. Because he says then, “You will die,” and he means it. He is going to destroy her, and the reason that is, is that she has knowledge of him as a good person. She represents and is a vessel for everything that he once was, and he finds such pain in that, and hatred, and anger. He doesn’t want to face what he’s become, but he just wants to destroy anything that reminds him of that former self. He doesn’t even talk about Anakin in the movies, at first, and if he is that person. “That name no longer means anything to me.” So we have to establish that Darth Vader and the destroyed character of Anakin. The moment you see it reach out in hope is when he says her name finally, and you hear the voice of Anakin. That’s the only thing, is beyond this horrible person is this trapped person inside that calls to her."

    http://au.ign.com/articles/2016/03/...ni-on-ahsokas-fate-mauls-return-and-much-more
    Yes, Luke does remind Vader of Padme, his love for her, and the man he once was. This has been in expanded material for decades, and Lucas even discusses this in videos.
     
    #7 GingerByte, Sep 26, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2017
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  8. Jedi Master Airina Zara

    Jedi Master Airina Zara Force Sensitive

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    I heard from a Star Wars celebration ( I think it was Star Wars celebration Europe) where they said only the love for his son brought Anakin back. I don’t think it had anything to do about Padme but maybe she does have something to do about it but to me I don’t think so.
     
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  9. GingerByte

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    Yes, but seeing Luke dying before his eyes reminds him of Padme and his quest to save her. Now he has the chance to right his wrongs, do what he could not before; save someone he loves.
     
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  10. Jedi Master Airina Zara

    Jedi Master Airina Zara Force Sensitive

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    Ya that would make since so he could redeem himself lol I can’t think too tired lol
     
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  11. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    mmmmmm.... I don't agree for two reasons:
    1. Vader never knew he had a son until Palps reveal it. He cannot feel love for him.
    2. Globally, Vader cannot feel love for anybody.
    So, I would change just one word in the quote: only the love of his son brought Anakin back. And here we are!
    Nobody can love Vader, and that is precisely what had maintained him in anger. The more he was doing horrible things, the less he was likely to be loved, thus, the more he was likely to do things even more horrible : it's a perfect devilish vicious circle.
    The last person who loved Anakin was Padme.
    The first person who will love Vader is Luke, because basically nobody can love Vader. Even Ahsoka cannot ; she can feel compassion, pity, perhaps, some form of melancholy.... but not LOVE. Only Luke will : isn't he the only one that believed Vader could be redeemed, from the beginning?

    When Vader realizes he is loved by someone (when Luke calls him "Dad") THAT gives him enough power to overthrow Sidious's hatred. And let Anakin come back.


    Speaking about Ahsoka, to come back into the subject : Vader feels conflicted one second, I think so. The proof to me is that Anakin's face that shows through a broken mask : such a strong metaphor! Vader is the cyborg made of metal, Anakin is the living flesh, that half of organic being inside the metallic shell. That being who was once a human and whose face we see for one second...
    Ahsoka does not feel love for Anakin : the conflict then does not last. The DarkSide can quickly fill his apprentice again.
     
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  12. Jedi Master Airina Zara

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  13. Colonel_Ender

    Colonel_Ender Rebel Official

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    He definitely was conflicted for a few seconds. His face shows it all. Anakin was able to break through for a moment, but Vader took control again. Man that scene was very sad. I know that some people teared up a little.
     
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  14. cawatrooper

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    I think @GingerByte pretty much definitively answered this question already, but just to throw something out there-

    Ahsoka is one of the great unresolved conflicts Vader still has left (obviously because she wasn't even created until after the first six movies were released, and her Clone Wars plot got the shaft when the show was cancelled).

    Also, she had a very close relationship with Anakin. A padawan is essentially the closest a Jedi could get to any sort of child/parent relationship.

    The problem is, Vader has clearly showed that he'll put his family (or personal interests) before the Jedi. Thus, while Ahsoka could muster some sympathy in Anakin, it's not enough. Only Luke (or presumably Leia), his own child(ren) could save him.

    And, in fact, the rage that Vader got at being shown part of his old self surely set him off the hook a little bit.
     
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  15. TheWhiplash

    TheWhiplash Rebel Commander

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    As far as I know from films, canon books and latest canon comics Vader is a coldblooded monster showing no mercy, for whom Anakin`s name means nothing...
    Thanks to @GingerByte for quoting Mr. Filoni, I couldno`t remember the whole interview, but you did it :D. It does not matter for Darth if she will live or die, he even lies with "...The Emperor will show you mercy" (spell it in J.E.Jones's voice), he searches for revenge, he needs Kenobi, and has much more things to do across the CFFA, but not to waste his time on Malachor. My vote is 'Toying to lower her guard' despite the fact that it looks differently. That`s why we are all fans, aren't we?

    @Jedi Master Airina Zara fabulous avatar you have (yoda 2), hm? Welcome board and may the Force...
     
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  16. daRinze

    daRinze Force Sensitive

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    What I meant is there are multiple forms of love, even if there is one single word to express it.
    You may love the bacon/the eggs.
    You may love your mother/father.
    You may love your son/daughter.
    You may love your wife/husband.
    You may love a friend.
    You may love your pet.
    You may love a film.
    These are all different forms of love.
    So actually you are true : Ahsoka feels love for Anakin. What I meant was it is not the same feeling than the one experienced by Luke. Jedi have learnt to avoid attachment, Luke was not refrained by such a principle.
    Ahsoka had for Anakin the love a student has for his master. Luke feels the love a son has for his father. It's not the same. Luke's love is stronger than Ahsoka's one. I don't think Ahsoka'a love would have been sufficient to overthrow Sidious's hatred - Luke's one was strong enough. That's what I meant.
    Actually I was a little too expeditious speaking about "Ahsoka didn’t love Anakin". I should have added "Ahsoka didn’t love Anakin the way Luke did" to be more precise.
     
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  17. Colonel_Ender

    Colonel_Ender Rebel Official

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    Well said.
     
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