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SPECULATION Echoes upon echoes: Addressing the "problems" with The Last Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Grand Admiral Kraum, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    I've heard hours of reviews following my viewing of the film, and i've noticed the same complaints appearing over and over.. so i'd like to address and even "debunk" some of them.

    1. Leia flying through space

    She's not flying through space.. she's force pulling herself towards the ship.

    "But why hasn't she ever done this before?! Why haven't I seen someone do this before?!"

    This could be the first time she's ever done this. Her survival instincts kicked in, she knew she had to live and serve the resistance. Did you complain when Yoda force-lifted an X-Wing for the first time? People are really complaining about new things after TFA being a nostalgia-fest?

    "But it looked stupid!"

    Rian's choice of shots/use of special effects could have been done differently here. Yeah she was dressed like Mary Poppins, and yes she did fly past the camera in a blurry, 90s TV show way..



    2. "How can bombs be dropped in space?? Rian doesn't understand gravity!"

    Come on. For real.. you're nitpicking. Stop.

    3. "What was the point of Snoke? Why did they kill him off without explaining his back story? They made him pointless!"

    Have you read the script for 9? How can you possibly complain about this without traveling in time and seeing every movie, every episode of Rebels and so on?

    Snoke will be explained, and he was inevitably going to die in this trilogy. We all knew Snoke was going to die.. so why not speed up the process and force the next episode into a more creative place?

    And despite Serkis' great performance.. i'm not into CGI main villains. There is far more weight to Kylo than Snoke. Snoke's death was the most positive thing this movie did for the plot of the new trilogy.

    4. "The casino scenes sucked!! They slowed the film down, it reminded me of the prequels, it was cheesy and the CGI sucked!"

    This is something I disagree with a lot of you on. Though I wasn't a fan of a few of the new aliens.. Rian boldly injected some of the prequel spirit back into Star Wars. This veered things away from desolation, sparse landscapes and cold environments.. and it took us back to the liveliness of the lower levels of Coruscant (by far the best part of episode II for me)

    This whole sequence felt like something Lucas would have come with. I found it heartwarming, and (though i'm still on the fence about the film) I respect Rian for paying that extra homage and shifting the tone of the film to something a bit closer the prequels. They are as much a part of the saga as the originals, and it's selfish for us to expect these films to be strictly OT-like in tone. P.S. Do people forget the ewoks?

    5. "The porgs suck and they're too Disney-like! They're just there to sell toys!"

    Ewoks.

    Will probably add more tomorrow.. too tired right now.
     
    #1 Grand Admiral Kraum, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
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  2. Malus Dagoth

    Malus Dagoth Rebelscum

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    Yeah, these totally aren't just crude reductive versions of the complaints you've read elsewhere.
     
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  3. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    Didn't I basically say that at the start? :confused:
     
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  4. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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  5. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    There are no problems. Just things that you didn't get that you wanted.
     
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  6. Kekstarter

    Kekstarter Rebel General

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    What a great way to debunk others' points...

    Have you even seen ROTJ at all? Ewoks were pretty important to the story...
     
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  7. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    So you have a problem with the gravity thing on the bombs.. in a saga where space wizards make spaceships float.. and mentally challenged cartoon rabbits become politicans. Riiiiight.

    I never said the ewoks weren't important to the story.. i'm saying there's always been cute/marketable creatures in these films.
     
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  8. Kekstarter

    Kekstarter Rebel General

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    I have a problem with people 'debunking' other people's points with "Come on. For real.. you're nitpicking. Stop."

    I never said there were never cute/marketable creatures in these films.. i'm saying the ewoks were important to the story.
     
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  9. Nick Skywalker

    Nick Skywalker Rebelscum

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    *hand up* ...this one is actually super easy. There is, like in all Star Wars ships, gravity within the bomber. The bombs get released within the bomber...
    Do I need to go on?
     
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  10. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    The gravity complaint is the one that really gets me... because we are talking about the franchise where there is sound in space.

    I get the complaint about look of Leia's scene, it could have been done better, her clothes are stiff like a board. As I said in another thread, if Vader's cape could billow in space, so can her dress. But the ability itself really doesn't need explaining. Leia has the same Force potential as Luke to the point where Yoda wanted to train her because of her other qualities. It was instinctual use of the Force in the face of certain death. People fighting for their lives can do incredible things to survive. I don't see why Leia can't. She certainly knows what Force pull is, with having Jedi brother and all.

    Snoke was a stepping stone for Kylo, following JJ's claim that TFA was a film about origin of the villain - Rian pushed him to another level. He was powerful beyond words and was brought down by his overconfidence and by pushing the wrong buttons in his unstable apprentice. In my opinion, there's no need to know more and I hope they don't do the backstory in IX and take time from the main characters.

    But, people shouldn't get too worked up about the complaints... or the fact that people aren't complaining enough. Movies are subjectively experienced and that is probably more true when it comes to SW than for any other movie.
     
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  11. Nick Skywalker

    Nick Skywalker Rebelscum

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    What really gets me is that people have a problem with the bomber in the first place. Like I said in my previous post, there is gravity within the bomber so the bombs would fall when you release them, in any universe. No one has to explain this by Star Wars being fantasy, sounds in space etc, the science is solid.
     
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  12. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    Woah okay man, sorry *backs away* nobody wants any trouble.. won't make any jokes in future :eek:
     
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  13. Kesserendrel

    Kesserendrel Clone

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    Or you can be like me and say the racks were actually EM railguns interacting with the bombs when they were activated, hence the lights.
     
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  14. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    One of my only real problems is this:
    yoda stones.png
    rey stones.png


    Rey makes everyone in the old movies and comics and animated series look like amateurs. Her forcepowers seem so random especially given that she is nothing special. A lot of jedi had nobodies as parents. How did she become more proficient in telekinesis than any other Jedi ever in a few week? I was always someone who defended her against the mary sue accusations but not that she was just revealed to be a nobody and with this scene I don't have much arguments against that accusation anymore. Yoda struggling with a tiny piece of metal and she's like no biggi let's move these 200 rocks over here...
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2017 ---
    I think they fell because of the gravity on board and once the had picked up speed they continued to fall due to no resistance in space.
     
    #14 BobRoss, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2017
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  15. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    I admit the force rocks thing was just a slap to the face. They should have just let Luke have his moment instead of "Hey, look what Rey can do too!"
     
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  16. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    I think it would have been a lot cooler and more in tune with the rest of the canon if instead she had split a rock in half opening up some space for the resistance surviors to squeeze through. This would have been a nice nod at Luke's training where she split that stoneplate in half and would have shown that back then it happened as an "accident" but now she control it and do it on purpose.
     
    #16 BobRoss, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2017
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  17. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Wow, these rocks really bother you. Would it have helped if Rey passed out after she did it and Finn ran and picked her up and carried her onto the Falcon. Then she wakes up on the Falcon looking at Finn. Finn would have two women he cares about unconscious.
     
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  18. BobRoss

    BobRoss Guest

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    Could you please stop stalking me, thanks.
     
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  19. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Lol. Boulders boulders boulders!!!
     
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  20. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
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    Read Star Wars Before the Awakening by Greg Rucka if you still believe Rey is a Mary Sue( Second Chapter, Rey). It might help dispel those beliefs... btw Luke had a couple of minutes of training on the Falcon B4 OB1 passed on, yet he went on to single handily destroy the DS... Gary Stue... nope, FS.
     
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