1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPECULATION End of Skywalker saga

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by McDiarmid, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    Lose Ben Solo ,you did..

    Lose Rey , we must not.
     
    #21 McDiarmid, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
    • Wise Wise x 1
  2. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Posts:
    1,561
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,892
    Ratings:
    +3,509 / 217 / -41
    Luke did not train Rey, so he cannot lose her.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Original Original x 1
  3. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    continuation...

    " I can't be what she needs me to be.

    Headed my words not, did you?

    A need in front of your nose. "


    [​IMG]


    A need in front of your nose.

    [​IMG]
     
    #23 McDiarmid, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
    • Cute Cute x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    80,243
    Trophy Points:
    169,917
    Credits:
    45,788
    Ratings:
    +84,980 / 84 / -31
    Poor Obi-Wan...
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,319
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,825
    Ratings:
    +157,639 / 65 / -7
    there's a whole hanger full of them, they just unfortunately didn't get to do much.
    i definitely need more stormtroopers in ix!
    less worried about Skywalkers ~ hahahaha
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,690
    Likes Received:
    101,677
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    54,769
    Ratings:
    +110,066 / 165 / -32
    What? He taught her three lessons. This is training for me...
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  7. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Posts:
    374
    Likes Received:
    3,539
    Trophy Points:
    12,942
    Credits:
    5,595
    Ratings:
    +4,041 / 32 / -11
    I still have no idea what you are talking about. You claim "some people" know that Rey is really a Skywalker. Who are these "some people"? Where is the evidence? A YouTube video with extremely flimsy leaps of logic does not count as evidence. The only evidence we have are the quotes from the creators and the movies and literature.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 25, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 25, 2018 ---
    Yoda trained Luke for how long? A week? Two weeks? No one knows. But it wasn't that much either.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  8. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,690
    Likes Received:
    101,677
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    54,769
    Ratings:
    +110,066 / 165 / -32
    I think it were two weeks. Rey stayed at least 3 days. So yes, I don't see much of a difference here too.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,319
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,825
    Ratings:
    +157,639 / 65 / -7
    he's just incredibly awkward. is was an unintentionally backhanded compliment.
    if he'd wanted to insult her he could have done much better. XD

    someone who is himself so relentlessly subdued and humiliated by Rey is hardly expressing hatred.
    and you who love parallels so much should be able to see this scene has a pretty amazingly obvious literary precedent in Pride and Prejudice.
    which is a hackneyed romance, by the way. if that matters. : D
     
    • Like Like x 4
  10. Niamor

    Niamor Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Posts:
    731
    Likes Received:
    1,727
    Trophy Points:
    6,817
    Credits:
    2,314
    Ratings:
    +3,187 / 49 / -5
    [​IMG]

    It is canon that Dagobah and Ahch-to are "out of the normal time", so maybe Luke and Rey stayed a long time here.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  11. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    nightangel said:

    Luke did not train Rey, so he cannot lose her.





    Pass on what you have learned.

    [​IMG]

    Strength, mastery.
    [​IMG]


    But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all.
    [​IMG]

    The greatest teacher, failure is.
    [​IMG]


    Luke, we are what they grow beyond.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    ..................................................................................................................................................
    Those books contained nothing that girl Rey doesn't already possess.
    ..................................................................................................................................................
    [​IMG]
     
    #31 McDiarmid, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  12. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,690
    Likes Received:
    101,677
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    54,769
    Ratings:
    +110,066 / 165 / -32
    Oh boy, you will be so disappointed by the end of IX.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. Niamor

    Niamor Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2015
    Posts:
    731
    Likes Received:
    1,727
    Trophy Points:
    6,817
    Credits:
    2,314
    Ratings:
    +3,187 / 49 / -5
    After 2 years of "Rey is the daughter of Han and Leia, it's all clear in TFA" he wants another disappointment...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    Did Luke passed on his knowledge to Rey?
    No.
    So what is Yoda talking about?.

    ---------------------------------------------

    In those books there was nothing that girl Rey already does not possess (so its not about knowledge its about something else, despite that books contain valuable knowledge to Rey since Rey saved the books , so its not about knowledge)

    I can't be what she needs me to be..(Luke thinks its about training and heroism and knows he can't be good enough for this)

    Headed my words not, did you? So Yoda is clearly not asking for Luke to be anymore teacher to Rey..!.But to understand something else.

    A need in front of your nose. " So this what Rey posses which is not in the books, is manifested in need she has al lthe time .And the thing she needs most desperately is to find who are her parents whom she waited entire her life, to find what is her place in all of this. Also Yoda knows Luke is gona die, so definitely Yoda is not talking about teaching.

    than he goes--
    Pass on what you have learned.
    Strength, mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is.

    Wait, again, what knowledge to pass when the time to pass anything by classic teachings have already passed away for Luke, entire Ahch-To days of Rey were about Luke the hermit, and now he is gona die.Yoda must know this, he is One with the Force. So Yoda is telling Luke something about Rey, something she needs, something in front of his nose, something that he must understand about Rey!


    Luke, we are what they grow beyond- Again , Luke hasn't teached Rey anything significant trough classic mentorship. Yet Luke is what Rey has grown beyond him? But she got almost nothing from his teachings, something a little, but its nothing compared to all the knowledge which Luke possess for sure.Yet Rey is girl that has "grown beyond him", grown on what, certainly not on Luke's knowledge that he teached her.
    In fact the last time they met she kicked his ass after he behaved like a jealous father not like a Master.

    That is the true burden of all masters - Yoda says Luke will acheive his role of mastery, and pass on what he was, everything, without teaching, to a girl that will grow beyond him , and it is a burdeon? What?Yoda knows and says this as a classic teacher .Luke has fulfilled his role, but how?He refused to teach her and will not teach her naymore until he dies.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Luke Skywalker's understanding is growing, however if Yoda would tell him directly who is Rey it will not enable Luke's growth, and path. He must find this all by himself, just like Rey to.

    So this entire Yoda's talk is a riddle.
    And this fact should not surprise us, its Yoda .


    And the Luke understands something crtically important at the end of the film.
    Its obviously Luke has got it about something, and it could be only about the only subject of his talk with Yoda, Rey.
    -there..
     
    #34 McDiarmid, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  15. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Posts:
    1,561
    Likes Received:
    2,029
    Trophy Points:
    7,592
    Credits:
    3,892
    Ratings:
    +3,509 / 217 / -41
    I have no doubt about this, because I'm already heavily disappointed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,690
    Likes Received:
    101,677
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    54,769
    Ratings:
    +110,066 / 165 / -32
    @McDiarmid, you should at least quote Yoda the right way and not regarding to your need. This is the right order of Yoda's speech:

    YODA: "Oh, read them, have you? Page-turners they were not. Yes, yes, yes. Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess. Skywalker, still looking to the horizon. Never here, now, hmm? The need in front of your nose."
    LUKE: "I was weak. Unwise."
    YODA: "Lost Ben Solo you did. Lose Rey we must not."
    LUKE: "I can't be what she needs me to be."
    YODA: "Heeded my words not, did you? Pass on what you have learned. Strength. Mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters."

    So let's break it down, even though the movie already did this.

    "[...]but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess."
    This mainly is a foreshadowing for the ending scene where we see that Rey took the books with her.

    "[...]Skywalker, still looking to the horizon. Never here, now, hmm? The need in front of your nose."
    Yoda is talking about action. All life long Luke just waited, he never took action. Only by the help of Obi-Wan and later Rey he did something. The need in front of his nose his is participation in the conflict.

    "I can't be what she needs me to be."
    Rey needed a mentor and a father figure. But Luke thinks he's bad at teaching (because of Ben) and even worse at being a father because he never had a child.

    "Heeded my words not, did you? Pass on what you have learned. Strength. Mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters."
    This is pretty much self-explaining.

    Luke is pretty much a jerk then. Rey is his daughter and he kills himself. Sounds about right... Luke = father of the year.

    It's not. Yoda always was straight to the point in every movie he appeared in. You just want it to be a riddle. In the OT, Yoda was the one solving the riddles.
    LUKE: "Is Darth Vader my father?"
    YODA: "Your father he is."
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  17. McDiarmid

    McDiarmid Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Posts:
    3,481
    Likes Received:
    3,898
    Trophy Points:
    12,517
    Credits:
    6,786
    Ratings:
    +7,941 / 410 / -137
    I would not argue is this interpretation correct or not, but its than unncessary insult to Luke by the film. Luke found a way to curageously face Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader alone, two of the most powerful Sith ever. He also had strength to see Light where there was only little chance of it, and brought to death of last Sith and redemption of Vader. He entered Jabba's palace and faced death in Rancor's pitt, and made a risky but clever plan to destroy Jabba and save his friends. He risked everything for his friends on Bespin.
    Everything this was than, if this what you said is true, undone by the Last Jedi. And for what reason?

    Now in the Last Jedi he is hermit on an island because he failed to see light in his nephew, and after failure abandoned fight.Rey needed to kick his ass in duel for Luke not to start reasoning jet,but to became even more persistent and try to burn it all down like maniac , and than Yoda himself sent by the Force intervened and tell him that Rey needs him to fight?
    So that was all about? He was hermit who lost curriage and will to fight and just at the last moment after persuading even by physical force and the Force itself he decided to use his obviously somewhere learned impressive skill to bilocate on the other part of the galaxy and remotely participate in fight?

    Why all of this if he will die anyway and Rey is not related to him? Why didn't he joined Rey and died like man in the fight, let say against Snoke?Like Obi-Wan?
    Instead last time with Rey he reacted on Rey/Kylo touch like jelaous old grampa"#ain't fuckin' on my island" and than had a fight in which Rey beaten him, and they separated in disagreement, in fact she took a Jedi texts for him not to burn them in his madness.

    That possibility is than such unncessary injustice made to Luke in TLJ that if there is reason I am blind, its is because I can't accept what they have done to Luke Skywalker and never will accept it. Star Wars is lost for me if this was all about.
     
    #37 McDiarmid, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  18. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Posts:
    4,690
    Likes Received:
    101,677
    Trophy Points:
    171,517
    Credits:
    54,769
    Ratings:
    +110,066 / 165 / -32
    All decisions which were made by Luke aren't actually Luke's if you think about it. The only decision he made by himself was helping Han and Leia in TESB.

    [​IMG]

    He pretty much taught her what Yoda was explaining. Rey has seen and witnessed a failed Luke Skywalker. => Her most important lesson. She doesn't need to find a hero, she has to be her own hero.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  19. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
    1030th General **** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Posts:
    10,000
    Likes Received:
    141,319
    Trophy Points:
    173,077
    Credits:
    68,825
    Ratings:
    +157,639 / 65 / -7
    Yoda is talking about the past. he is reminding Luke of what he told him in the past.
    Luke is complaining that he was a failure and Yoda is telling him that's all part of growing toward wisdom--for Luke's sake.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2017
    Posts:
    279
    Likes Received:
    1,874
    Trophy Points:
    7,667
    Credits:
    2,568
    Ratings:
    +2,057 / 5 / -1
    Whether or not it was Luke's decision or not, he still showed bravery to do it
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...

Share This Page